New house, two chimneys, wood stove vs. insert

[BurntEmber]

We recently moved into a 1 story contemporary house in Maryland with two brick fireplaces. Having lived in our previous house with an old Vermont Castings Vigilant, we really enjoy wood heating, at least as a supplement to heat pump. The house has good circulation around an open air atrium (it is basically a donut-shaped layout for the main living part of the house, with the bedroom areas off the main front hall, and they are on a different heat pump, so a different hvac zone).

We want to start with the living room/dining room because that large room does not heat well from the heat pump. Began looking into wood burning inserts for that fireplace partly because it has a raised hearth. But we are not sure we would like the fan/electrical for a fireplace. So we are also considering putting a stove rather than an insert there if there is something that would fit. We would need to put a liner into the chimney for whatever we install. Like the look of Vermont Castings stoves & inserts but have read about recent quality issues, also like looks of some of the Jotul stoves.

Living room/dining room fireplace: (stacked stone chimney in photos) front width: 34.5" x front height: 30", back width: 30.25" x back height to flue: 35", depth: 24", hearth in front is 16" deep

Living room/dining room is 35.5' x 14.5', with very high angled ceilings (14.5' at highest part) and lots of sliding glass & windows. Chimney is probably around 17' tall.

There is another fireplace in the den, and we were initially considering putting our Vigilant in there if it would fit, and it might if we could get shorter legs. But we are concerned about it's efficiency, and assume it might blast us out of that room with the amount of heat it puts out. That room also has tall ceilings, and is on the opposite side of the outdoor atrium from the living room/dining room. It is a large fireplace, so we are thinking it would work well to put some kind of smaller stove in there, rather than an insert. The Vigilant needs an 8" liner, so if newer stoves require 6" liners, that is something to consider as well. This fireplace is not as high a priority as the other, but we want to put something in there at some point.

Den fireplace: (brick chimney in photos) Front width: 43.5" x front height: 28.5", rear width: 37.5" x rear width: 37" to flue, depth 23.25", hearth in front of fireplace depth: 20.5"

Den is 18' x 13'

Our main question is about inserts vs. stoves, in terms of ability to efficiently heat, difficulty/cost of installation, & maintenance. Are there benefits to inserts other than aesthetics? Any suggestions about stove/insert manufacturers & models?

Attaching some photos & a floor plan. We are thinking that circulation should be pretty good in this house, aside from the high ceilings. Any suggestions about doorway fans, ceiling fans, or other methods to help move the warm air around?

Thanks, this is a great site!


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[Grisu]

Welcome to the forum!

From the pictures, I doubt that the hearth of the living room fireplace can accommodate a stove. It looks like it is just attached to the wall like a shelf and as you described pretty shallow. Would you be willing to remove it and build a hearth in front of the fireplace? Then you would have quite a few stove models to choose from. Jotul, Hearthstone, Woodstock, Quadrafire Explorer would be the most likely brands. Otherwise, you may need to go the insert route there. An insert would cost you less space in the room, some find it aesthetically more pleasing (others not so), and some insurances charge less for an insert than a stove. Overall, though, a stove usually has more advantages.

For the brick fireplace you may have a few more options although the low lintel height and the only decent hearth won't give you a lot of choicesregarding stoves. The Woodstock Fireview and the Progress Hybrid with the short led kit should fit but check for the depth. The Hearthstone Castleton would be another potential option; same here. The Jotul F500 has an optional short leg kit; maybe it would fit then under the lintel. The other advantage of that fireplace is that it is at an interior wall. You will lose less heat with an insert to the outside when compared with the living room fireplace. In any case, make sure to get a block-off plate installed: https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/

Your biggest problem in getting the heat moving will probably be the high ceilings. You may need some ceiling fans to stratify the air up there.

 

[bholler]

Like grisu said i dont think a stove will work to well for you there. And in addition if you slide a stove all the way into the firebox you are not gaining anything by using a stove over an insert. If anything you may loose some heat inserts have a convective jacket around them to direct the heat out of the firebox a freestanding stove does not. If the fire place is on an exterior wall that means you are sending allot of heat into that masonry structure and allot of that will then end up outside. In this case i say go with an insert

 

[Ashful]

Living room: insert. If this will be running 24/7, I'd be checking dimensions for a BK Princess insert.

Den, small space, frequent use but not 24/7. I'd go Jotul 400, which will fit fine with the short leg kit installed (about 26.5" - 27" tall).

Bholler is right about heating your back yard thru the masonry, in cases with solid masonry from inside out.. I've been doing that for several years with a small fleet of Jotul Firelights. Jam a radiant stove back into a fireplace, and it radiates most of its heat into the masonry. If that masonry is exposed on the outside, then it sinks the heat there. However, I've never seen a solid masonry fireplace in any house under 100 years old.

 

[blades]

living room fireplace is a prefab insert assembly might want to check with mfg as to strength of floor in there( weight wise) also is that living room a gas unit?

 

[bholler]

living room fireplace is a prefab insert assembly might want to check with mfg as to strength of floor in there( weight wise) also is that living room a gas unit?

looks like a regular fireplace with doors to me

 

[BurntEmber]

Hearth.com Folks,

Thanks so much for all your thoughtful replies!

The raised hearth is integrated into the fireplace masonry in the living room, cemented in by at least a brick width or so. That said, I am not sure its truly solid enough to support a heavy stove. This, combined with the observations about heating the great outdoors, rather than the indoors, argues pretty strongly in favor of a wood burning insert! We very much appreciate the guidance. The brass doors are just clamped onto the lintel and rest on the hearth, as opposed to being the front of a prefab fireplace, so the masonry should accommodate a properly sized insert. We will have a look at the BK Princess and some others. It makes the task much easier when we have confidence that the insert makes the most sense. Although we have not yet achieved the 24/7 wood burning life-style, we do love a fire and also like the notion of relying less on electricity.

As for the den, it sounds like a small to medium short legged model might work pretty well in there and now we have lots of models to investigate. The link to the block-off plate is also really good. With the high ceilings we will clearly need to do something to get warm air moving around from room to room. The outdoor atrium at the center of the house makes for wonderful cross ventilation . . . at least in the warm months when the doors are open, but this may not be such a good plan for the dead of winter. I think we will investigate some doorway corner fans to see if they could help. Does anyone have experience with those or other ventilation fans?

Again, thanks to all for your suggestions. We really enjoy following this forum.

 

[Ashful]

I think we will investigate some doorway corner fans to see if they could help. Does anyone have experience with those or other ventilation fans?

The oft-repeated advice on this forum is to focus on moving cold air toward the stove, rather than warm air away from it. Cool air can be very easily moved along the floor, whereas trying to direct the warm air up high is always impeded by door ways, transoms, etc. Move the cold air toward the stove, and it will displace the warm air to the source of the cool air.

The most popular solution is a small desk fan (eg. 8") on the floor in the coldest corner of the space, pointed toward the stove.

 

[BurntEmber]

The oft-repeated advice on this forum is to focus on moving cold air toward the stove, rather than warm air away from it. Cool air can be very easily moved along the floor, whereas trying to direct the warm air up high is always impeded by door ways, transoms, etc. Move the cold air toward the stove, and it will displace the warm air to the source of the cool air.

The most popular solution is a small desk fan (eg. 8") on the floor in the coldest corner of the space, pointed toward the stove.

Excellent. We will think on that one - and read through some of the previous threads on this, thanks.

 

[mass_burner]

OP, I love that flush, tall chimney. It is screaming out for a sleek, modern looking insert. Consider Wittus, Morso, etc brands. Some are convection stoves that don't require a fan. Aesthetics is important after all, the hearth is a focal point and you're gonna have to look at it for a long time.

 

[CT Burner]

We ran a hybrid fyre large insert last year with great results. You do have fan noise, but the electrical is minimal. Flush mount. Awesome unit for you if it will fit. Would compliment your big brick fireplace nicely.

 

[BurntEmber]

OP, I love that flush, tall chimney. It is screaming out for a sleek, modern looking insert. Consider Wittus, Morso, etc brands. Some are convection stoves that don't require a fan. Aesthetics is important after all, the hearth is a focal point and you're gonna have to look at it for a long time.

Mass and CT Burners,

Thanks for the suggestions on insert makes, the Wittus, Morso, and Hybrid Fyre are all very handsome. We are going to look around for dealers in our area and hopefully have a look at at showroom.

 

[jeffesonm]

I had an Osburn Matrix flush insert in a very similar looking fireplace and it looked terrific.

 

[BurntEmber]

Thanks for the suggestion, it looks great! We will have to take a look at the Osburn Matrix.