New House with Fireplace; Lots of smoke :-|

[stevenriz]

hey all. I read all the sticky threads and suppose I know what might be going on, just don't know the right fixes for my situation. I am just hopeful there is a fix..

New house with a traditional fireplace in the 20'x24' great room off the kitchen. Standard box colonial, great room over the garage.

The fireplace ash dump has a little door inside that connects to outside air. You can see a vent in the brick from the outside. This will let in fresh air but presumably need to keep the ash dump door open for this air to come in. When doing so however, there is a small wind and ash blows around and into the room.

The house has been built to tight, that we also have a 24x7 fan running in a laundry room in the opposite side of the house. So I am guessing this fan is sucking air from the fireplace, which is the only other opening in the house. So when air comes in from the ash dump flap, it comes right into the room, smoke and all. I then need to open a window. Not a crack either, like 6" before smoke stops coming in.

The fireplace, chimney and everything was built to code. Is code up to today's standards? I have no idea. Questioning this now in my head. We paid extra for the fireplace and hate to not use it.

Coming from a 12 year old house, albeit was probably drafty, had a wonderful fireplace. No issues, never had to open a window, nothing.

Thoughts? What are our options? I want that fan to be shut off, I am sure that is a big part of it.

thanks!!

 

[begreen]

All fireplaces are not created equal. Code does not determine the design of the fireplace. Some are poorly designed and have a tendency to spill smoke due a number of reasons. If you turn the fan off, does the problem go away?

 

[kennyp2339]

Whole house air exchanger, not that bad in price, will change the air out a few times an hour, keeping heat in cold out, vs virsa in the summer, but the main thing is evening out the pressures and make up air if your house is truly that tight (which is a good thing)

 

[Flame On]

Are you sure the ash dump flap should be left open? My parents had one of those in their 1980s house and we only ever opened it to dump ashes.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[bholler]

I would try shutting off the fan to see if it helps or fixes the problem. You may not have enough make up air though it can be a real problem with new houses. And the air coming in that small opening of the ash dump door is not going to be enough. It could also be bad fireplace design. As bg said just because it is built to code does not mean it is designed well. Can you post some pics?

 

[stevenriz]

thanks... The fan is hardwired and we plan to try and disable it to see what happens. Yes Flame, we never opened that door until ashes were cold and swept them down. Now with it open, hit ash might fall down there, which may or may not matter, not sure. We will try evening out pressures. Not sure when. the mason and builder are coming next time we plan to have a fire. I will post some pictures! thanks everyone.

 

[begreen]

Just temporarily switch off the breaker for the circuit the fan is on. You might also want to put a seal on the cleanout door for the ashpit.

 

[stevenriz]

ok will try that. What do you mean put a seal on the cleanout door? How can I seal it?

 

[begreen]

On a mild day you can make a gasket out of silicone adhesive. Open door, run a bead around the inside edge. Close door and let it sit for at least a day.

 

[Flame On]

That's great you got the mason and builder to come. Hopefully they'll make good. I just can't imagine a house that tight. My house is like a swiss cheese that someone drilled a bunch of holes in.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[bholler]

I just can't imagine a house that tight.

We see it all the time it takes a massive amount of air to make a fireplace work properly. And new houses simple dont let enough air in. Which in most cases is a good thing but not if you are trying to fun an open fireplace

 

[Simonkenton]

You need to build an outside air intake for that fireplace.
What is the size of the opening of the fireplace? The bigger the opening, the bigger the outside air intake you need.

I have such an air intake for my fireplace. I installed a 6x14 inch grate in the floor next to the fireplace.
Knocked out a concrete block of the foundation. Ran insulated 14 inch diameter flex pipe from the hole in the foundation to the vent in the floor. My fireplace opening is 34 inches high and 40 inches wide.
Also I have an additional 6x6 inch outside air intake right in the middle of the hearth.

 

[Sprinter]

We see it all the time it takes a massive amount of air to make a fireplace work properly

I've heard open fireplaces can consume up to 500 CFM or more. To compare, modern stoves are maybe 50 or less. Combine that with modern tight construction, and you really have to find some way to get that much air volume to the fire.

As Simonkenton said, outside air intake is the best way. Even with stoves. Without it, even if the fireplace is drawing well, that air has to come through the house from outside which is why open fireplaces are so inefficient. I wish I had had outside combustion with a couple of houses I've lived in. Brrr.

I'm not sure what it would take, though, to build a proper outside air for an open fireplace. Perhaps your contractor can advise.

 

[bholler]

As Simonkenton said, outside air intake is the best way. Even with stoves. Without it, even if the fireplace is drawing well, that air has to come through the house from outside which is why open fireplaces are so inefficient. I wish I had had outside combustion with a couple of houses I've lived in. Brrr.

yes but for a fireplace you would need a massive hole to supply the needed air

 

[Sprinter]

yes but for a fireplace you would need a massive hole to supply the needed air

Yeah, I already modified my response because I have no experience with supplying fireplaces with such a thing. Stoves are easy, I don't know what to do about fireplaces. I don't see many threads about that. It would take a lot of volume.

 

[bholler]

Yeah, I already modified my response because I have no experience with supplying fireplaces with such a thing. Stoves are easy, I don't know what to do about fireplaces. I don't see many threads about that. It would take a lot of volume.

pretty much no one does it right we usually see a 4" pipe wich isnt going to do a damn thing. I would say you would need atleast the size of the flue if not more

 

[Sprinter]

I would say you would need atleast the size of the flue if not more

Good point. Makes sense.

 

[Ashful]

I thought the description in the OP indicates they already have a fresh air intake on that fireplace, but the velocity of incoming fresh air is dragging dust into the room.

What is the purpose or function of the aforementioned exhaust fan?

A stove or insert with an OAK would solve all...

 

[Sprinter]

I thought the description in the OP indicates they already have a fresh air intake on that fireplace, but the velocity of incoming fresh air is dragging dust into the room.

You're correct. But my guess is that it's just not big enough.

A stove or insert with an OAK would solve all...

Correct again...

 

[stevenriz]

hey everyone. Builder came over and we disabled the 24/7 circulating fan. There is actually a switch on the fan itself that I didn't notice and we just shut it off. We also took a weather stripping off the bottom of the door heading to the basement. I would say 95% of the problem is cured. We also noticed when we turn the dryer on, it creates a vacuum as well. So when we plan to have a fire, we will not use the dryer! I forgot to take pictures but will post them. The fireplace came out great and we built it around our surround sound center speaker. We haven't put the TV up over the mantle yet, maybe after Christmas.

 

[rwhite]

Is there a good way to put a air intake on the laundry room? You could leave the door shut so it could draw air from outside?

 

[maple1]

Something about having a fan exhausting 24/7 in a new house just doesn't seem right....

 

[Sprinter]

Do you know the CFM rating of that fan? I'm no expert on air exchange systems, but with such a tight house, maybe a different system like Kenny mentioned would cause a much less pressure drop in the house. But you will still need to make sure you have enough volume of air getting to the fire. It sounds like what you have now may just not be enough.

Whole house air exchanger, not that bad in price, will change the air out a few times an hour, keeping heat in cold out, vs virsa in the summer, but the main thing is evening out the pressures and make up air if your house is truly that tight (which is a good thing)

Maybe someone with more experience with air exchanger systems than I have can comment.

With just a fan blowing out 24/7, where is the makeup air coming from if the house is that tight (other than the fireplace)?

 

[maple1]

Also curious what the primary heating source is.

I would be leery of running a setup like that, past our code/building inspection people up here.

 

[begreen]

I'm a bit surprised that code would allow a fireplace in the bedroom of a tight new house, especially without an outside air supply.