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New Jotul 400 - Dirty Door Glass

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Gabby12, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. Gabby12

    Gabby12 New Member

    Joined:
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    Wilm. DE
    I'm back.
    With so many ideas and suggestions I decided to print thread, highlight comments and respond - plus this will help to keep all the and ask together in one post for others in the future.

    -Baffle In Place - I checked mine and it seems to be in place and pushed all the way back into stove
    -Don't Use Ammonia - Used a diluted version once but now use a loosley balled up newspaper and straight water - works well
    -Oak needs 2-3 years and maple/cherry 1 year to season - I remembered that the Oak I have was from a neighbor and it is at least 3 years old and was covered. My cherry/maple are one year and have been covered. All wood lights easily and will overrun the stove temps if I don't sut air down to at least 1/4 open
    -Turn down air too soon - I will leave open longer but stove gets up to temp pretty quickly so will have to watch this. Have tried to leave door open but it seems to create more smoke at least early on when fire is not up to speed yet. Have tried opening ash door (works great) but received a lot of info on this procedure - look for thread. FYI - I have only done this for seconds when getting stove rolling but got the picture to not do this.
    -Do you have smoldering fires rather than lazy flames - with only having the stove 5 days althgouh i have had a fire each day have relly on had one good all day fire. I did my three break in fires the first day with the installers doing the first one. On the day I did have an all day burn it was more of a lazy fire with stove temps in the 400-500 range all day. Glass never did cleanup and as a matter of fact by the end of the day it was almost black.
    -How do secondaries look - I think they look fine with usually kicking in around 400 degs and have a nice blue flame.
    -Do I have a chiminey dampener - I asked the forum about this before install and asked stove shop about it - most on forum and stove shop say stove does nto need it. So no I do not have one.
    -Hot fires clean glass - I don't see the glass getting cleaner as i burn hotter. Just keeps getting dirtier
    -What kind of chiminey and how do i burn/load - I won't repeat. I mention this in thread.
    -Need at least two breakin fires - Installer did first one with me doing two more later in day. Have had 4 more fires with getting temp up a little more each time. I think it's broke in.
    -Check for eru/us plate - I did a visual check and it says USA and I do feel the two pea size holes that face inside the stove
    -Pull the two screws that hold the air out to see if the control is in position. - Still need to do this - Don't have any extra parts so will have to contact dealer if doing something with using the US versus EUR plate. Would like to here more about this.
    I did see the installer reach down inside the flue hole on top of stove when installing and pulled out a cast plate. I can't remember what he said it was. It think it said EUR but can't remember - Any thoughts?
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  2. gandrimp

    gandrimp Member

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    South central MO
    Gabby, it looks like you have everything listed except checking the gaskets. I know its a new stove but weirder things have happened.
    My castine, the only time the glass gets black is when a piece of wood gets up next to the glass, when I have tried to shut it completely off, and the time or two that I would stick a wet/green piece in. When I do get a black spot, a good fire will remove the black while I watch.
    On the control handle, when you move it left to right and back again, you should be able to feel a slight resistance with a cast iron on cast iron sound. If the control is out of position, it will be free with zero resistance.
    On the euro or USA plate, I like the way the euro works. I have tried the USA plate every year, thinking each year maybe my wood was to green last year, well this year my wood is 3 years split and stacked. The USA plate just dont work well in my stove.
    I just checked my stove and the pipe is at 250, and the top is 400 with the control set 1/2 open (or is it half shut). Thats with just 2 pieces on a good bed of coals and the wood is half burned up.
    I looked back at your last post and you say the wood "was covered" has it been rained or snowed on? This will affect the glass but should not cause high temps.
  3. Gabby12

    Gabby12 New Member

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    Wilm. DE
    To check the gasgets do you do something like using a dollar bil, close door and pull out - I am sure it's in the manual - juast asking.
    When I move the chrome air handle I do hear cast on cast moving - there is not a lot of resistance like the air handle shaft has a packing - just seems to be moving a plate inside of stove.
    As a matter of fact i asked the installers about that meaing was there any type of adjustment that I should know about such as a pack or anything - they said no.
    The installers did the first break in fire and seemed to know the stove and what they were doing - (both had been installing for 6 and 8 years) and he didn't notice anything wrong but his fire being that is was the stoves packaging lumber (very dry pine) burned fine.
    I don't have an extra plate but think it's tiem to call dealer just to touch base and see what they have to say.
    i am courious what the installer took out of top of stove.
  4. gandrimp

    gandrimp Member

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    Loc:
    South central MO
    Around the door the dollar bill test will work. The glass gasket on my stove will move around, that is why I think it needs changed, but my glass stays clean.
  5. Gabby12

    Gabby12 New Member

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    Had little over an hour to look at gasket, remove inner air control plate, get stove fired up, put up some more siding J Channel on ouside before leaving to go to Scouts (I'm a Cub Scout Den Leader) and I think I might have stumbled on what is causing my issues.

    First - (per advice above) pulled the air controller panel (mine says US) and inside the sliding cast plate has two squarish holes - I would say each one is about 1" in dia.
    All looks like it is working and moving freely with no debris inside - I put cover back on.

    Second - Did the dollar bill gasket test (per advice above) - tight as can be and could not pull bill out of the shut door.
    There were no visable areas of wood being stuck in gasket.

    I had cleaned the glass the day before and it is perfectly clean so then...

    Third - Lit a fire using pallet pine and some scrap pieces of oak from a wood project - lit like a match. And now to the discovery....

    Keep in mind this stove is located in a 24'X24' addition I am building that is attached to the house on one side BUT is not open to the house yet nor is it insulated. Our outside temps have been below 30 most days with it sometimes getting into the teens at night.
    Today when I lit the stove the addition room temp was a little warmed but still only 40 degs.

    As I was adding some kindlin I noticed the cast inside the stove started to sweat.
    This time I left the door a jar longer (per advice above) to really get things going and then I noticed the inside of the glass is sweating too.
    Now keep in mind the soot I have had on my glass won't even come off with your finger nail - when using newspaper/water/ash method it is coming off but not without some decent scrubbing.

    So this time when lighting I left the door open until all the condensation dried off of the glass and then shut the door.
    Although there was still some smoke inside the stove as the kindlin was taking off, this time it wasn't sticking to the inside of the glass.
    Before if I had smoke at start up I had soot build up on glass that would not come off by just touching it - it was baked in.

    I kept the fire going a while while I was outside doing some siding and kept checking - no soot on glass.
    Due to having to leave for Scouts I didn't want to add a nice piece of wood so I added a pretty bad/rotten piece I had laying around and with playing with the siding and not paying close attention to the stove the fire did start to smolder BUT this time the little bit of brownish soot I had on the glass I could pretty easily wipe off with my finger.

    Admittadly this was a short burn due to my other obilgations but from what I observed I think this might be the problem - condensation on the glass when starting fire and then smoke adhearing to glass - which would then get baked in after the fire gets going.

    Time will tell...

    What everyone's thoughts on this theroy???
  6. rijim

    rijim Member

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    210
    Loc:
    RI
    What is stopping you from loading that thing up and getting it burning for a few full cycles? It sounds like you could be onto something but you won't know until you decide your really ready to run it.
  7. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    South Puget Sound, WA
    I ran our stove with the Euro plate for a week and then put back the US plate. The latter worked better for clean burning with dry wood.
  8. gandrimp

    gandrimp Member

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    Just curious,, do you have a castine? Also in another post I read you used fir, maybe the USA plate will work better for your type of wood? Me, the only softwood I have ever even sawn is cedar,,, unless you count my carpentry, then I suppose I have cut pine. :oops:
  9. Gabby12

    Gabby12 New Member

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    Yes it's a Castine.
    I will mainly burn seasoned wood such as oak, cherry, maple, sycamore.
    The pine is jsut scraps from wood projects and some pallets i have access to at work.
    Will really only use this wood to get fire started.

    What am I waiting for to get stove up and running? well it's basically having the time plus the stove is in a room I am building and don't have "Familiy" access to. We are not living in this room yet - it's still my "man-cave" workshop.
    Being not open yet to my main house the heat generated is basically going out the open ridge vent - no ceiling or insulation yet.
    But mainly time...
  10. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    A bigger load shouldn't take more than a couple more minutes to get going than a smaller fire.
    Get it going, turn down the air and leave. Or, do it on a day off....do you get those?:cool:
    If you don't feel you've got the stove figured out yet, it's understandable, but it doesn't sound like that's the case here.
    I also get that you don't want to waste wood, but it would only be a small amount for the thrill of seeing what the stove can really do.;)
  11. Gabby12

    Gabby12 New Member

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    The thing is I get it up to temp. in no time at all and have to air down to keep under control.
    So I see some what what the stove can do but without being in the room to watch temps rise/lower I don't want to over fire the stove and what is the purpose of filling and letting burn - just to burn - well I guess I can answer that as I have done every day since install...

    I feel until I learn the stove better and knowing what wood will do what, and at what air will do what and can watch this process a few times I don't want to run the risk of overfiring which seems as though it can happen fairly easily.

    I am not writing back to create opposition and contrversy nor do I think you are writing to provide controversy but understand i want to be educated and cautious.
    I would say now at least I know the stove better bygoing through this process...
  12. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Gotcha.
    Sounds like maybe the "problem" has been solved.:cool:
    Once you get the room done, you should be an expert at running that stove.;)
    Would it be possible to see some pics of the room and stove setup?
    Curious minds want to know......besides, the mantra around here is "w/o pics, it didn't happen".;lol
  13. Gabby12

    Gabby12 New Member

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    Oh it's happening;)
    Fired up stove today - again running again tonight - piano lessons.
    Got it up to temp. on oak and sycamore easily.
    First piece of Sycamore I have tried - it's been split 1 year - seems to burn well.

    Once hand held laser got over 600 and blanked out look at magnetic temp. gauge and it was at 700 degs. I then knocked air down all the way.
    Virtually no soot on glass.

    Attached Files:

  14. Gabby12

    Gabby12 New Member

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    Today's burn on Sycamore
    Plan to mount a nice piece of Oak for mantle on each wall and meeting in center.
    Had a Cousin make some blacksmith brackets to hold up.
    THat's the next step with hearth area.

    The photo of the room is showing about 1/2 of the room.
    It's a 24' X24' room with a vaulted 12' high ceiling.
    Planning on doing some type of tonue and groove ceiling - thinking cedar.

    Attached Files:

  15. Kevin Dolan

    Kevin Dolan Burning Hunk

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    Loc:
    SW Ontario
    What a great looking stove!! Looks just like mine!!
    Great install and hearth, I have a rear vented stove so do not have the chimney going up into the ceiling, worn how much heat that gives additional to the stove?
  16. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Wow Gabby, really nice.
    I love the windows too. I guess you don't mess around when we say pics or it didn't happen.;)
    Nothing like proving a point.;lol
    Are you a stone Mason? Looks like you and Scotty should work together.
  17. rijim

    rijim Member

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    I think you are good to go, you won't really know until you load that puppy up go through a full cycle down to coals, reload and run it again. Good looking addition that the stove will fit well in.
  18. Gabby12

    Gabby12 New Member

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    Thanks for the thumbs up.
    No not a mason just a question asker and a you tuber.

    As far as the stove pipe giving off heat it definitly does but not nearly as much as stove.
    When stove is up to temp (600-700) I can briefly put my hand on the pipe up at ceiling - would say around 250 ish but faily hot closer to stove.
    I have a rear heat shield on stove and it is amazing hot cool it stays - again only burning a few hours so probably will get hotter with longer burn.

    I have some other threads going on here about the hearth/mantle build out but just mentioning here that I built it utilizing a 1" air gap behind stone wall.
    This allows for putting the stove tighter to wall by providing an air gap which creates insulation form heat on closest combustumble - which happens to be main wall studs.

    My 86 year old Dad is the additons official historian meaning he comes over, sits in a chair and takes picutres.
    Glad he is around to be a part of the build.
    So when you say need photos - I've got um. 100's of them....

    For the area above the mantle I was thinking of running the stone up to ceiling but am thinking something else now.
    When we go camping or traveling to a neat place such as a National Park we try to find a nice rock along the way - something to reflect on and remember our trip.
    My thoughts right now is to take these stones and apply them to the dry wall above the mantle in a random order.
    Probably will fasten with a construction adhisve in a random fashion.
    Might get a lable engraved with where it came from and put under stone.

    In time the wall area/wall will have memories of our trips and will sort of blend in with that area of wall.
    Not something others might like but down the road while sitting back in my lazy boy I can look at this wall and remember these trips.

    As for Scotty (Sarah) she's my buddy - a 14 year old yellow lab...

    Let me lastly mention that it's been greaet conversing with you all about this.
    Thanks for all the help thus far...
  19. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Cool, I've got 3 yellows and a chocolate.
    I was actually referring to Hearth.com Members, whose addition build thread is ........quite long, and reminds me of yours a bit.
    Seen it?
    Nice that your dad is there to see all that happening.
  20. Gabby12

    Gabby12 New Member

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    Got it - don't know the names tha well yet. Know a few though.
    Yea I have an issue with long verbiage but feel the detail gets the point across and others migth benifit in the future - yes I have a problem:confused:.....:)
  21. pmac

    pmac Member

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    I have the same stove... have had it now for about 12 years, and I feel like it's taken me quite some time to figure out how to get it working really well.

    Any kind of moisture in the wood will show up as condensation on the glass when starting it up, and that damp smoke will eventually turn brown if the stove isn't brought up to temperature (400 - 600F) quickly. It will eventually burn off, when the stove is > 500F.

    Also, even when the stove is up to temperature, and some wood is thrown in that's not totally dry / seasoned and takes a bit to fully catch, that wood will throw off smoke than can stain the glass, especially if the splits are loaded N-S (ends facing glass and back). If the end of a piece of wood is giving off moisture close to the glass, it WILL turn brown, even if you're stove is between 400 - 500... but again, it will eventually burn off.

    If the stove is hot and I'm putting in wood that I know may be less than ideal, I'll open up the damper a bit and not close it down until the recently added wood is REALLY burning well. One mistake I used to make was putting in wood when the stove was hot, and thinking I never needed to adjust the damper because the stove would be hot enough to get it going. That's true if the wood is dry, but if it's at all damp, it helps a lot to put more air in for a bit until the new piece is burning well. Otherwise, some smouldering and dirty glass.
  22. gandrimp

    gandrimp Member

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    So how's it burning?
  23. Gabby12

    Gabby12 New Member

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    Had a long burn yestyerday while I was out finishing putting up siding.
    Had a few short after work burns during the week as well.

    With now leaving the stove door open longer until condensate dries and then closing I have virtural have had no problems with soot build up on door glass and the little that I have had I was able to wipe off easly with a dry newspaper - flaked right off.

    Seems the condensat was the issue.

    I would think once I get the room insulated I won't be starting the stove with it being so cold (yesterday the stove was 32 degs. at start up).
    But if I do, and now knowing to look for condensate, I don't think I will have any issues.

    So to answer your question of "how's it buring".......great.:)

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