Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by stormy873, Oct 23, 2010.
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In all fairness I don`t feel the service tech or the dealer should be held fully responsible for the possibility of a faulty outlet/circuit in a purchasers home. Of course all service techs should possess some basic electrical knowledge but it`s not absurd or is it unusual to expect a simple 120 v outlet in a users home to work correctly.
Regardless of what appliance is purchased and consequently plugged in to an existing outlet, the ownership or responsibility of that outlet does not change hands .
OK, I`m a retired electrician myself and my opinion on this might seem a bit slanted but in my 50 yr career I`ve seen most folks more interested in what shows in their home (like new kitchens and baths) vs the electrical wiring or the water pipes.
All that said, I do agree that long before this point in time someone should have thought to check the outlet, it`s voltage , and the circuit integrity, all the way back to the street power.
The two things I`d be looking for at this point is to check the power and maybe replace the ESP.
I dont have your patience. I also agree that the tech should have checked the power supply, but frankly, thats it.....plug the little dongle into the wall, if it lights up green, its all good, but, in the fairly rare (but not unheard of) situation where it ISNT green, thats where we stop......tell the homeowner that they have to have the outlet fixed PRIOR to any work being done, and call us when it is done......we will fit you into the schedule after that point. The outlet isnt the installer's responsibility, but possibly checking to make sure its Kosher is his responsibility.
That said, I dont KNOW thats the issue! I just came up with it because of all the erratic stuff going on with your unit. Usually, with a p38, it gets installed, works out of the box, and you never hear back until its time for a new flame guide, or they are buying next batch of pellets.....I say usually......its certainly possible youve got a bad part or two as well, although thats rare. FWIW, even though it wont help, Ive never met a Harman that couldnt be fixed.
Polarity checked correct with my brand new little Gimzo....Have never had problem with circuits in past. This was the circuit that I used for sensitive computing equipment. Router, modem, dual monitors, never had any problems with any issues regarding that so I am not inclined to call in an electrician. My "Kilowatt" meter shows steady voltage to the outlet. I think it is the stove.
And thanks to whoever said this stove could be fixed....I want ot love my Harman.
the thing is, Elise, that there just isnt that much going on inside the P38........the power goes to the circuit board, and is distributed from there to the components, with additional direction from the ESP. If all the motors have been tested independantly (powered up one at a time, right to line voltage and not through the wiring harness), and they all worked, there just isnt much more than the ESP probe, circuit board, and vac switch.......heck, were I the repairman, given the issues you've had, I would replace all 3! That might take all of about 10 minutes MAX. Hope it all works out!
The tech should check the wiring in the stove to make certain that a polarity reversal isn't occurring because someone got the white and black wires etc.. connected incorrectly inside the stove, also all connections should be verified as tight and that all wires are not rubbing against any moving or vibrating metal parts, also they should verify all motors are actually grounded to the stove's frame.
Stormy, any updates on your stove? Good news I hope.
I dont understand why the "them" wouldn't replace the stove....cna't the dealer return the stove to the manufacturer for replacement on his end? I mean, after all, the dealer doesn't have a competent Harman repairman/tech...maybe he should send his tech for the proper training. i too have a P38. i bought it used from a harman dealer, and have had excellent luck. after 3 years of burning, i just had to tear the stove down and repair the auger tube , as i had the dreaded 5 hole burn pot,and the tube wore thru. at almost $200 for the feed assembly, i thought i would try repairing it first, and now in A1 shape again. i feel bad for stormy with her issues, and i hope you get it fixed soon. i dont know much about electrical, so i dont dare guess.
This has been going on for almost a month. I would not have the patience. Saving up the money, comparing quality, & this happens, dealing with an incompetent dealer. Start replacing parts or replace it. I assume it was paid with cash. I know some are against credit cards however if credit card was used, some have purchase protection, satisfaction guarantee,extended warranty, etc.
UPDATE to the Update to the Update
I have been calling and e-mailing the dealer daily with no response from him since last Monday. Not a message, not an acknowledgment of the e-mail. Nothing. I finally found that Harman had a Facebook page touting their stoves so I posted a comment that I wished my new stove worked <G> It wasn't a trash Harman message-It was a simple, I sure wish my stove worked.
Received a message asking me what the problem was and so I told them-they now have the same information that all of the forum members have.
By this afternoon, I was getting pretty upset with the dealer so I called and the manager was out. I told the guy who answered the phone that I was going to KEEP calling until the manager returned my call and that I needed this stove replaced or repaired to MY satisfaction. FINALLY, get a call back and he tells me he is having the district Harman rep come out to look at my stove-maybe before Thanksgiving. I ask him if this guy is going to fix it and there was pretty much dead air space...So, I imagine this is a guy in a suit and his appearance is probably based on my contact with Harman rather than anything the dealer has instigated.
I have snow on the ground and it is cold so I have been trying to run the stove. I have determined that the blower "brain farts" happen with greater regularity when I turn the stove down. If I run it at 3 or higher with the fan dial past mid-way I have less problem. Trying to shut either the feed or fan rate down any lower and I get problems with the fan coming off and on over and over with the pause in between.
I finally turned the stove off when it got to near 80 degrees in the house and it is having a fit. The fan cycling off and on-even tho there are only a few tiny embers left and the stove is pretty much cooled down. I am going to let it run to see how long it does this...Update
By the way, I did pay for the stove with a credit card and I paid for it in two payments (Deposit and on delivery). I have checked with my credit card company and they told me I have 60 days from the delivery date in order to dispute the charges. I will dispute the week after Thanksgiving if this isn't resolved by then.
As a complete aside, since I am getting fed up with Harman does anyone know of other stoves that I could look at that will meet my siting requirements? I need a stove that can be placed within 24 inches of an operable window with outside air installed. The smaller, the better has we have a small home. And, despite my experience with lighting issues I still prefer a low tech stove. The less bells and whistles the better. The only brands I know of locally that have stoves that can be installed that close to an operable window are a St. Croix (never even seen one) or a Lopi. I would love some other leads on other models that might work for me.
Thanks for all your support in this. I feel like I should send you all cards for the holidays!
Actually it isn't the stove and the window etc... that is the issue, it is the vent termination and the operable window etc ... that is the issue.
Yes, you are correct-I wasn't clear in my explanation. I need to look at models that can have the capability of a vent termination withing 24 inches of an operable window, if outside air is installed. That was the big draw of Harman in the first place. I didn't want to replace the big picture window in my living room that opened in the wrong direction! I didn't like my husbands idea that involved screwing it shut either.
Enough is enough. I am a big fan of Harman stoves but this has gone too far. My advice: either the Harman tech fixes it right then and there, or he takes the stove with him. Shell out a few more bucks and get a self-lighting P43 or P61A. They should give you the mother of all discounts on a new stove.
the st croix lancaster is a simple little reliable stove. I heat 1600sq ft with it.
Good for you!, enough of this crap. Harman needs to fix it or replace it. If not - Get charge reversed and drop it at dealers door step.
Just a thought. Why don't you post your dealer's e-mail address on here ,and all of us on this forum could send him our thoughts about this issue.
I would dispute it now and work towards getting the p48? auto ignition model and only paying the difference if that so you might be able to sit in front of it Thanksgiving. I think I would try to get a discount on the other model for compensation for it being such a pain in the EEEEE-AWWWW.
Since the control board has already been replaced I`d put my money on it being a bad ESP.
Unfortunately you must have one on hand to swap out . Ask the dealer to change it.
As I see it , at this point you have to decide whether you want to wait for the dealer to solve the problem, or hope he replaces the stove (rather doubtful) , or initiate credit card proceedings . Anyone of these will take time and meanwhile you are not getting pellet stove heat. Any change in model or brand is likely to cost you more money.
Why the ESP hasn`t been changed yet is a mystery to me.
I am documenting the malfunction of the stove via video because I doubt somebody is going to stand around waiting for it to misbehave. I apologize for the quality. I will be posting more later but us the first one documenting the erratic blower operation. (Hard to do a good video at 6 AM)
The way the voltage on the kill-o-watt is bouncing around should be a really really good clue.
Is the circuit the stove is on dedicated to just the stove?
My computer is on the same circuit, pulling less than 200 watts and it was "asleep." I have duplicated the same behavior with the computer off and nothing else on the circuit.
Dispute the charge now, before you lose that option. The dispute can stay in pending status why they are "working it out" - instead of hitting the maximum time waiting for them and not being able to dispute. At this point you are not being hasty in disputing. They have had ample time to come to a resolution.
The St Croix Hastings can be within 9" of a window with outside air installed. I originally thought 18", but the manual came with an addendum point out according to such and such special categories, it is now 9" with outside air.
Auto ignite too.
I've only had it a few days so far, but it's awesome. I wish you were enjoying your new purchase as much as I am mine.
Is the Kill-A Watt displaying different readings,amps,watts, hertz,kwh, not just voltage? Or is the voltage erratic??. I might have missed this, but for the heck of it ,did you try a different outlet on a different circuit?? Weird.....
Yeah, stop screwing around with this dealer. Every dealer I know worth a damn would have had this fixed no more than 2 weeks after the install, and the only reason it would have taken that long would be because of waiting for either 1)new parts 2) new stove or 3) waiting for my schedule to match theirs to get it corrected.
FWIW, there have been other posts about getting a different model Harman. I have the P61A and love it. What it comes down to though is getting something in your price range that you are comfortable with.
The Kilowatt meter is displaying the watts the stove is drawing. I should have been more clear about that.
I am the queen of taking meter readings on everything because there can be times when we have to use a generator and I keep an updated chart of the maximum watts required by all necessary items so I make sure to only plug in X number watts at a time-making sure to account for starting watts and running watts.
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