I live in Prince Edward Island, Canada. A local guy is selling a new PTO splitter (20) new for 850. Based on what I see, that sounds reasonable. But I don't know what questions to ask? to see where corners may have been cut in quality. Or am I tin foil hatting and these things generally work as advertised?
New PTO Splitters, what to ask, what are the gotchas
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Generally - they are pretty good units. Do you have a brand name? Knowing that this is a twenty ton unit it will probably have a 4" ram, but the next question would be "what is the output of the pump?". This will have everything to do with cycle times and the PTO HP needed to turn this bad boy.
p.s. - we LOVE pics.
p.s. - we LOVE pics.
By PTO splitter, I'm assuming this is the kind that attaches to the tractor via 3 pt hitch and has a hydraulic pump that is driven by the tractor's PTO. If that that's the case then $850 sounds about right for the price. Here's a short list of questions....
Does the unit operate in both horizontal and vertical modes?
Who makes the PTO pump? (Prince is a very popular pump)
Does the unit attach to Category 0, 1, 2, or 3 3 pt hitches? (Note: the vast majority of tractors a homeowner would have around are equipped with Category 1 3 pts. Adapting a cat 1 implement to a cat 2 hitch is no biggie.)
What's the wedge made out of? High carbon steel sharpened to an edge is best, with a broad flare near the end to "pop" rounds open. I have seen wedges that use 1/8" angle stock to flare the broad side of the wedge distort that angle iron. I'd prefer a solid wedge or at least 3/16" angle if not 1/4" thick. Knife-like wedges work but may require the cylinder to extend full-stroke to finish splits in stringy/knotty wood. Big thick cast-iron wedges may look tough at first but the edge will wear easiest and dent/distort the edge pushing through tough knots.
I would thoroughly examine the welding on the machine looking for smooth, clean, consistent welds. Shade-tree welding should be a deal-breaker.
Does the unit operate in both horizontal and vertical modes?
Who makes the PTO pump? (Prince is a very popular pump)
Does the unit attach to Category 0, 1, 2, or 3 3 pt hitches? (Note: the vast majority of tractors a homeowner would have around are equipped with Category 1 3 pts. Adapting a cat 1 implement to a cat 2 hitch is no biggie.)
What's the wedge made out of? High carbon steel sharpened to an edge is best, with a broad flare near the end to "pop" rounds open. I have seen wedges that use 1/8" angle stock to flare the broad side of the wedge distort that angle iron. I'd prefer a solid wedge or at least 3/16" angle if not 1/4" thick. Knife-like wedges work but may require the cylinder to extend full-stroke to finish splits in stringy/knotty wood. Big thick cast-iron wedges may look tough at first but the edge will wear easiest and dent/distort the edge pushing through tough knots.
I would thoroughly examine the welding on the machine looking for smooth, clean, consistent welds. Shade-tree welding should be a deal-breaker.
basod
Minister of Fire
I'd be curious about PTO speed to pump gpm. If your PTO speed requirements would require higher throttle I'd start to consider fuel consumption.
The convience of running the 3pt splitter into the woods vs. towing a trailer unit would be a plus and one less engine to maintain. Then again filling the tractor vs. getting atleast 2 pickup loads out of a tank on my 20T unit and at $850 your not far off just adding a small engine instead of the PTO.
Does the guy have a demo unit that you can actually test with your tractor, even offering $50/75day rental redeemed at purchase would give you some more piece of mind that'll satisfy your needs.
The convience of running the 3pt splitter into the woods vs. towing a trailer unit would be a plus and one less engine to maintain. Then again filling the tractor vs. getting atleast 2 pickup loads out of a tank on my 20T unit and at $850 your not far off just adding a small engine instead of the PTO.
Does the guy have a demo unit that you can actually test with your tractor, even offering $50/75day rental redeemed at purchase would give you some more piece of mind that'll satisfy your needs.
He replied it is a Walco, 3PH, auto return
Walco is a Canadian Company in Elmira Ontario, with U.S distribution it looks like
Walco is a Canadian Company in Elmira Ontario, with U.S distribution it looks like
Oh, and my Tractor is a NH/ford model 1920. I've run a neighbours splitter off it before no problem. Fuel consumption is not a concern, since the tractor and wood are on my property.
Hydraulic Splitter, sorry guys, Im a bit on the tech side of life. That attaches to the three point hitch.
PTO is my snow blower (insert embarassed look)
PTO is my snow blower (insert embarassed look)
I described my post all wrong Jags. I am looking at a 3ph hydraulic wood splitter and accidently referred to it as PTO. My original question deals more with quality splitters, things to look for. And now that I know it is a WALCO, looking for opinions as to the quality, if anyone has one
So the splitter will run off of tractor hydro and NOT the pto?? Gotta watch out for the output (GPM) and pressure when doing that. The old tractors were all over the place for onboard hydraulics.
JustWood
Minister of Fire
All of the ones I've seen are pretty well built.
I wood have a hard time justifing wearing out an expensive diesel motor on a tractor to split wood though.
A retired farmer friend of mine gave me his and my plans are to mount it to the jib crane/corner post of my shed and use an electric intank pump combo to power it..
I wood have a hard time justifing wearing out an expensive diesel motor on a tractor to split wood though.
A retired farmer friend of mine gave me his and my plans are to mount it to the jib crane/corner post of my shed and use an electric intank pump combo to power it..
I will have to check out the manual at home to get the pressure. As for wearing the tractor out, the tractor was bought used, good price and it mostly sits, so I want to get some use out of it (it was an impulse buy). Plus I live on a clay seasonal road and use it to get out in the spring for a few weeks. It really is underutilized, but I dont have the heart to get rid of it.. It is my toy
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
It will be too slow. Like really really slow and even then it will have to be singing along at high rpm to get all 7.8 gpm. It will also be weak, old tractors had low pressure caps so when the wedge finally gets to the wood, it will not have as much power as a normal splitter with the same size ram.
Assuming that I am correct with the 4" cylinder that will yield a "true" 26,000 pounds of pressure or equal to a 13 ton machine. Now mind you these are "true" numbers, not the advertised stuff you see in MFG literature.
I like being able to move wood around with my FEL while I'm splitting/processing...so I really don't want my splitter attached to the back of my tractor. But then, that's a purely personal preference and driven in large part by how the operator chooses to configure the operation. Rick
Jags: Would your recommendation be to not go with the 20 ton and drop to 15, (if they have one) or would I be ok this 20, albiet at a slower speed?
JP11
Minister of Fire
This, and the fact that i would be putting hours on my 35hp brand new tractor just to run a dinky hydro supply was the reason I bought a stand alone. That, plus the fact i can use the loader to move the pallets of splits.. Just not worth it IMHO unless you have multiple tractors. Fuel use alone makes it very impractical.
basod
Minister of Fire
The tonnage rating will be a factor of cylinder size between the different units probably 3" vs 4".
In this case your limiting factor is hydo power and flow. The 15T will cycle faster but your actual tonnage will be less than the 20T you'll have more like a 7.5T unit.
Personal call. How fast do you want/need it to go. Assuming a 4" ram at the 13/20 tons at 7.8 gal per minute on a 24" stroke - I would approximate a 22-24 second full cycle time.
The BIG question in the room is that if you go to a smaller ram (15 ton model) is 2100 psi gonna be able to do the work you need. A 3.5" ram @ 2100 psi is an 11.5 ton unit. Some will say yes and some will say no. I have built a splitter with a 3.5" ram at 2750 psi that is no monster by any means (and the math comes out to be an honest 15 tons). It can be stopped, but usually a reposition of the log will allow for it to split on most.
You dealing with straight grained less than 20" stuff - you might get away with it.
That said - I like my big boy splitter for the grunt stuff and my small one for the speed (but it has over double the pump you are looking at).
Edit: its gonna be real slow with questionable power, my friend - that is the straight up truth.
The BIG question in the room is that if you go to a smaller ram (15 ton model) is 2100 psi gonna be able to do the work you need. A 3.5" ram @ 2100 psi is an 11.5 ton unit. Some will say yes and some will say no. I have built a splitter with a 3.5" ram at 2750 psi that is no monster by any means (and the math comes out to be an honest 15 tons). It can be stopped, but usually a reposition of the log will allow for it to split on most.
You dealing with straight grained less than 20" stuff - you might get away with it.
That said - I like my big boy splitter for the grunt stuff and my small one for the speed (but it has over double the pump you are looking at).
Edit: its gonna be real slow with questionable power, my friend - that is the straight up truth.
basod
Minister of Fire
And note any rating on a pump flow will not be real world due to restrictive losses in the connections and hoses.
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