New stove install and clearances to insulation in ceiling

[jzinckgra]

We just had a jotul F55 installed in our new house. The room has a cathedral ceiling with 12/12 pitch. The ceiling was dense packed with cellulose. When the installer cut the hole in the ceiling we had to remove a fair bit of the cellulose to make way for the stainless double wall pipe (I assume this is Class A). There was no ceiling box used. Essentially the 60" double wall came through from the outside and extends into the room a couple feet before transitioning to a couple elbows then double wall stove pipe.From the stove outlet to the Class A is ~6'.

My question has to do with flammability of the the cellulose in the ceiling. To prevent some of the cellulose from falling out after the pipe was run through, he stuffed some pink fiberglass around the pipe. So the stainless double wall comes into contact with the pink stuff, which isn't flammable, but directly behind that is the cellulose, which I believe is treated to be non flam, but not sure. Is this safe?

 

[begreen]

Why no cathedral ceiling support box? I'd feel better with a metal outer collar establishing a 2" clearance perimeter. Can you post some pictures showing the whole install and close ups?

 

[jzinckgra]

I can get some pics later. To clarify. there is a 2" space around the T&G pine cut out which is then framed with an adjustable (2 part) finish piece, but inside the ceiling there is no space around the insulation.

 

[McNutt]

Im not a veteran or expert but i had (in lack of money and time before winter) did the same thing but you should have nothing touching your class A pipe. Clearance is 2" or whatever the manufacturer says. If you paid for them to put it in tell them to fix it, chances are your house insurance wont cover that because it wont be up to code. Also the box is a support for the weight of the piping, without it your elbows will take all the stress.

Just my 2 cents.
hope this helped

 

[begreen]

Some companies make a roof support for some class A pipe. Is this what was used? Your pipe should have had a roof radiation shield installed as per this thread.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/class-a-through-a-cathedral-ceiling.87896/

 

[webby3650]

It sounds like they used a roof support. Some people do it this way and I'm not sure why. On a cathedral a ceiling box should be used, the framing can be installed from the roof side. I think the framing is the part that some people aren't sure of, so they do the roof support, which is less stable and more difficult in my opinion.
You need an insulation shield, no insulation of any kind should be touching the pipe unless its ceramic wool and is allowed by the manufacturer. They should install an insulation shield even if they had to custom fab one out of sheet metal.

 

[webby3650]

From your description, it sounds like they used a set of class A elbows. The elbows aren't allowed to be exposed in the living space. There are only a brand or two that allows the pipe to pass through the ceiling box and into the room, thus preventing the use of class A elbows. I bet the reason that no ceiling support box was used was so they could extend the flue into the room and use elbows. They had extra pipe with them, but not enough double wall connector pipe or any elbows, so this is what you got.

 

[begreen]

 

[webby3650]

Sorry, I've been watching too much Matlock I guess.

 

[begreen]

LOL . I just feel for the OP. Pics will tell a lot more.

 

[jzinckgra]

Ok, here are a couple pics. I would need to remove the trim piece to show you inside the ceiling, but there is no radiation shield. They did use a roof support on the outside. I questioned why they did not use a ceiling box since they used one on our last house. Different installers this time and said they didn't need it. i thought it looked terrible running the SS flue portion into the living space and requested they spray it black, which they did. It looks fine, but I don't understand if that is a no-no to run that portion of the flu into the house. If it's double wall, what is the harm? Also, not sure why someone said you can't use Class A elbows. The reason for the elbows is due to the off center pipe relative to the stove. There was a roof rafter in the way and we had to reposition the hole, therefore requiring the use the elbows. They're not done the job yet and the plan is to come back remove the single wall section just below the class A, install the two elbows then use double wall to stove. They were going to use single wall and we have the clearances, but I asked them to bring double wall (more costly though). Overall, I can ask them about the radiation shield, but not sure they will install at this point. I can always get some sheet metal and stick it into the ceiling. I wish they used the ceiling box though. Sure looks a lot better when used.

 

[webby3650]

not sure why someone said you can't use Class A elbows

I said you can't use elbows in the room, and thats what you said you had, but It appears that the installers don't intend on using class A elbows at all, since they put the stovepipe adapter on already. Double wall connector elbows are fine.
You will also need a roof brace kit. With no support box and brace kit you have very little stability.

 

[aansorge]

To me, that looks like a ceiling support box.

 

[begreen]

Did they put a brace on the roof for the chimney at the 5 ft. point?

 

[jzinckgra]

I said you can't use elbows in the room, and thats what you said you had, but It appears that the installers don't intend on using class A elbows at all, since they put the stovepipe adapter on already. Double wall connector elbows are fine.
You will also need a roof brace kit. With no support box and brace kit you have very little stability.

W did have a roof brace. They werent done when pic was taken. Gotcha on the elbows. I didnt know there was a difference in double wall vs class a elbows. They will use double wall

 

[jzinckgra]

To me, that looks like a ceiling support box.

Nah its just a two piece trim piece

 

[webby3650]

It looks like all is well then, just see if they can add an insulation shield. They will either have to modify one from Excel, or make one up out of sheet metal. Either way is fine as long as it maintains the 2" clearance.

Let us know how that Jotul does for you! Looks like it's going into a nice place!

 

[jzinckgra]

Here's the final install. Just need to add radiation shield and will be ready to break her in.

 

[webby3650]

Looks nice!

 

[alforit]

Here's the final install. Just need to add radiation shield and will be ready to break her in.

That looks great !

 

[jzinckgra]

That looks great !

Thanks. I'd like to add stone veneer behind the stove at some point.