New stove what to do?

[Angus]

We are thinking of a new stove to heat our kitchen, and we need it powerful enough to give extra heat up stairs.
We were looking at a Morso 3610 or a Jotul 500.
I ve posted on here before and have bought and sold many stoves, I m a bit of a stove fanatic!
My only worry is that the Jotul and Morso may be too big. We also thought about the Jotul 400, but it doesnt seem to get the write ups that the 500 gets. Another option may be a Vermont, but I heard the back up isnt so good.
We are leaning more to the 500, but worried if it is too powerful, we also use the stove for about 8-9 months of the year.
It should have enough embers to prevent re-kindling the next day. Any information appreciated.
Room size; approx 22 ft x 15 ft x 8ft, there are 2 doors that lead off each side to another room and the stairs, the house is situated in a very windy area (costal) poor insulation on outside walls, stone built, winters can be very long, not the coldest place but the wind makes 0 deg more like -15

 

[begreen]

Both good choices, I don't think you should worry about overheating. This is in the control of the person feeding the stove and the quantity of wood added to the fire. Remind me where are you located Angus?

 

[StihlHead]

Well, just about any size stove will heat a 330 sq foot room. Even with poor insulation radiant heat should keep it warm. Convection will heat the upper areas at the expense of the lower area, if the doors are opened. I heated my bedroom loft in the last house I lived in that way; fireplace insert in the living room and if I left my bedroom/loft door open the fireplace heated the loft just fine. As for oversizing, I would not worry about that. I have been heating this 1400 sq foot house with a large EarthStove rated for heating a 2200+ sq feet. This is a trailer, so insulation is not great but the stove works fine for the most part. I keep this place about 65 in winter, give or take a few degrees. You can always burn less in a larger stove, but you cannot burn more in a smaller one.

 

[begreen]

We need more info. You are up in Scotland, correct? Will this stove supplement the heat of the F118 CB or will it be replacing it? (Please add your stove to your signature and your location to your profile to make it easier and faster to respond next time.)

The question is how well will heat be able to circulate from this room to other areas of the house? If the two doorways connect to other open areas of the house you may be able to blow in cooler air from one door and have the warm stove air sucked through the other doorway and around to the back of the fan to return. If the room is closed off, all by itself, then maybe the Morso 2110 or Jotul F400 (or another F118 CB) would be a better fit.

 

[Angus]

BeGreen and Stihlhead thanks for your information.
I calculated my room size (sorry I m used to meters not feet) it is 2440 sq ft and a door leads off directly to the stairs.
Yes, I am in the east coast of Scotland, county Angus (also my name)
We have a f118 in another room, but due to some changes in the house, it is semi retired, and its shape is too awkward for the kitchen.
I have to say the 118 Bear is a very powerful stove, it must be more than the 7kw stated and it heated half the downstairs and all the upstairs.
The house is stone, the walls about 2 ft wide, we currently heat the room with an old Jotul, we ve had for 12 years, I dont think you would know it in the USA, a Jotul 301, photo below. It is a 6 kw convector but it is not able in the real winter months of November to April, to heat the kitchen properly, let alone any other room. Maybe its because its a convector?

 

[StihlHead]

2440 sq ft kitchen? That is the size of a moderately large house here... you live in one of those Tudor style Scotia mansions or something?

 

[begreen]

Ah, meters vs feet will certainly make a difference. In that narrow area I think I would opt for the front loading Morso 3610. And I would not worry at all about overheating the room. Just add less wood in the milder months.

 

[Angus]

2440 sq ft kitchen? That is the size of a moderately large house here... you live in one of those Tudor style Scotia mansions or something?

Oops, sorry, I converted that wrong, the Kitchen is approx. 400 sq feet, please forgive me, in Europe we calculate in meters cubed, not feet squared! We dont have Tudor styled mansions in Scotland, you will need to visit England to see them!
Anyhow, 400 sq feet, so still thinking the 500 or 3610 may be too big?

 

[begreen]

If a 6KW stove is not able to do the job then I don't think you will have any problem with going larger. Those stone walls absorb a lot of heat and you can burn half loads in milder weather. I would look for a 10KW stove as a replacement like the 3610.

The main issue with the Oslo is that it is a better side loader than front loader. That seems impractical in the recessed location. What do you think? Some other alternatives would be a Dovre, Franco Belge or Aga stove available in your area.

 

[tjnamtiw]

If you are looking to replace the stove in the kitchen, why not put a wood/coal/peat burning COOK STOVE in the kitchen and kill two birds with one stove?

 

[My Oslo heats my home]

I agree with BG, the bigger Jotuls are mainly sideloaders and the 500 may be too big for that size room. The 118 bear would look nice there but you may limit your burn times with that stove.

 

[Angus]

A few good suggestions there, a wood cook stove sounds good, but I think in Europe they are not so common and I m not sure if I will get anything that will keep the embers till morning?
Does the Jotul 500 have a hot plate on top, like the Bear? We have a semi retired Bear, but it would come into the room too much, and also if we put it side on, it wouldnt look too good. The bear has a cracked baffle plate, and the steel secondry burn tubes are warped, it heated most of our home for 4 years, and was never off between early November to early April every year.
I dont know much about the AGAs, Dovres and Franco Belge, but I ll look into them. The Morso 3610 is a possibility. Can anyone tell me if it has plenty embers the next day and how easy, or hard is it to control? Is it a continous burner or an intermittant?
Like I said, we live in a very windy area and this magnifies the cold. I ve seen -15 c with no wind and it actualy feels milder than our normal damp windy 0 deg.
Thanks for the comments.

 

[tjnamtiw]

A few good suggestions there, a wood cook stove sounds good, but I think in Europe they are not so common and I m not sure if I will get anything that will keep the embers till morning?
.

I suspect that cook stoves are more common than you may realize. Mine came from Serbia!

http://www.mbs.rs/magnum_en.html
http://www.tradad.com/venkov/cook_stoves.htm

 

[begreen]

With proper fuel the 3610 should provide 8 hr burns.

Have you considered insulating this room as an alternative? That may be less expensive. It could allow you to keep the current stove and save fuel.

 

[Angus]

The way old Scottish houses are designed (our home is 1900) they are very difficult to insulate, we put in double glazing, that made a huge differance, we put in loft insulation, that made another huge differance, but there is a gap between the plaster and the stone, this is designed as a breathing area, the air actually circulates between the 2, this may seem strange, but it is because of our super damp windy cold climate that this is neccessay, otherwise the timbers would rot and the walls would dampen. Incidentally we need a stove burning about 9 months of the year, only in July, August and part of September is it warm enough not to heat.. mostly.
AC is unheard of here! The Jotul 301 we currently use is perfect in May June, September and part of October, from November to the end of April it is severely lacking.
Begreen, we are seriously thinking of the 3610, not sure how it compares to the 500, I think they will be simmilar!
tjnamtwi I had a look at your cookstove, very interesting!

 

[Angus]

Begreen,
I thought I would attach the link below, it is a stove review page, and shows how the f500 gets glowing reports and the f400 gets very mixed reports.
There is one contibuter for the f400 who seems to know what he is talking about, i think hes from the US.
Have a look.
http://www.whatstove.co.uk/jotul-stoves/jotul-f-500-stove.html
http://www.whatstove.co.uk/jotul-stoves/jotul-f-400-stove.html

 

[begreen]

90% of the problems I have seen with the F400 are draft related. A good salesperson will warn about this, especially if the stove is connected rear-exit. It likes a strong draft because it is a shallow stove which solves a lot of space constrained issues. The large door can also allow more smoke spillage in weak draft conditions, especially if opened rapidly. bottom line, this is not a stove you stub into a 8x10 flue, with a 90 on the rear exit. It will be balky and spill smoke. We had it connected to a ~20ft flue, rear exit and it worked well until the weather was very mild outside.

It took me a couple months to learn to burn the stove well. After that I found it to be a good burner. Smoke spillage was not an issue until temps outside started approaching 50F. I suspect that would have not been an issue if I top vented it. I was going to try that, but then the T6 happened to show up. The F400 can really provide the heat, yet burns well at a lower 400-450F stove top. Overall we found it to be a very nice stove, both as a heater and aesthetically.

Not that I am suggesting the F400 for your place. In your house I would go larger as previously suggested. You are looking to replace a 6KW stove so I would go up to a 9-10KW stove. The F500 is much better as a side loader. Will you be able to accommodate it on that hearth? Remember to add 16" of hearth from the left side door.

 

[Angus]

Begreen, thanks for the information.
We will be flueing out the top, straight up and out, and we have a good wind here. We prefer the f500, and the Morso 3610, the side loading is an added attraction.
The Jotul f301 we currently have has been with us for 11 years, its a great stove, and is 7kw, it is fine at this time of year, but in the winter it is not able. Now I might be wrong but it is just too much of a convector, and non of the heat goes down, to warm the floor, like with the F118 and while it throws the heat into all (high) corners of the room, it just doesnt heat where we sit and eat, and as it is a cleanburn, one of the earliest models, it is I believe what is called a continious burner, and not an intermittent burner, so it nearly always needs re-kindled in the morning. We are a 3 stove home, but only use one stove at a time according to time of year and room usage, the Bear is getting sold, it has a far higher out put than Jotul claim, the 301 will take its place in a semi retired role, the Morso 7642 stays where it is for the weekend use and I reckon we shall put in, probably an f500, we will wait till, what you guys call the fall. The f500 will act as a primary heat source, the other 2 are secondary for hard winters and power cuts, which we often get around January due to high winds and snowstorms.
In January past we got a lot of visitors, there was no electricity for 6 days, but we have a warm home, 3 stoves burning and hot food, our neaighbours were eating cold food (or travelling to town for fast foods) and were freezing cold!

 

[Angus]

Just to add to this thread, we are looking at a Vermont Resolute or Encore.
I would appreciate any opinions on these stoves, like overnite burn, quality, airwash, availability of parts.
The hot plate is an added attraction.

 

[cptoneleg]

Just to add to this thread, we are looking at a Vermont Resolute or Encore.
I would appreciate any opinions on these stoves, like overnite burn, quality, airwash, availability of parts.
The hot plate is an added attraction.

If a 6KW stove is not able to do the job then I don't think you will have any problem with going larger. Those stone walls absorb a lot of heat and you can burn half loads in milder weather. I would look for a 10KW stove as a replacement like the 3610.

The main issue with the Oslo is that it is a better side loader than front loader. That seems impractical in the recessed location. What do you think? Some other alternatives would be a Dovre, Franco Belge or Aga stove available in your area.

If it means anything I usually load my Oslo-500 from the front, no reason except I prefer the front, although I do use both. And Angus, you need to put your old avatar back, it was cool, Good Luck

 

[Angus]

Hi Cptoneleg
Is this the Avator I had before ?
Willie Campbell, a fine stereotypical example of Scots.
Anyone got any views on Vermont Stoves?
Was looking at the Vermont Intrepid 2
Are they reliable, good overnight burners etc?
Vermont is fairly well known but not as big as Jotul / Morso over here.

 

[begreen]

The Intrepid II is too small for your needs. An Encore 2N1 is the smallest I would consider. This is a more complex stove. If you want simple, I would stick with the Morso or Jotul or another good 10-11KW European foundry like Dovre, Nestor Martin, Franco Belge, etc..

 

[Angus]

Thanks Begreen.
I dont like complex, simplicity usually works best for me. I was looking through the Hearth forum for views on the VCs. in general, I saw one particular topic where someone was choosing between a Jotul 500 and a VC Intrepid, the general opinion was for the Jotul, and I think in this case the person went for a 400.
We really need something we can cook a pot and kettle on as its for our kitchen. The attraction of the VC is the side warming shelves and the hot plate.

 

[begreen]

I think you'd love our PE Alderlea, but I don't know if they are sold overseas. Take a look at the Dovre 640 and 700.

 

[Angus]

Begreen, the PE brand is not available in Europe.
I quite like the Dovre. I m not quite so taken with the Nestor Martin / Franco Belge
I showed the VC website to my wife tonight, she is not so keen on them and wants a Jotul, 400 or 500, the children like the Morso 3610
Reckon its a 3 way split between the 400, 500 and Morso 3610.
I like the 400, but the reviews are not as great as the 500, will have to think long and hard about this.