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new stove with simplest design ?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by carinya, May 28, 2009.

  1. carinya

    carinya New Member

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    In an earlier post I praised the simple design of my 1986 Kent Tile stove http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/38654/ and see pic below. :)

    However, I discovered that I'm generating about 4 times the particulate matter of today's stoves - I guess things were too simple :-S

    My question is :

    What new stove has the simplest design with least damageable/moveable parts ? (I'm thinking of this thread http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/38442/ )


    And maybe ..... what new stove would come closest to matching my Kent ?

    Thanks in advance

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  2. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    I am partial to the Englander stoves and since you are a steel stove guy too I would look at them and also the Pacific Energy line of steel stoves. PE has the color finished heat shields that add the looks to their stoves that some folks prefer. Myself, two cans of stove paint added the look I wanted for my Englander 30-NC.

    Lotta great stoves out there. Fire up Google and also visit a few stove stores and you will find what you need/want/can't live without.
  3. grommal

    grommal Feeling the Heat

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    The Jotuls are extremely simple. My Oslo has basically one moving part (aside from the doors), and that is the single air control lever.
  4. mayhem

    mayhem Minister of Fire

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    My Morso has a couple loading doors and a single air control lever.
  5. SmokeyStover

    SmokeyStover New Member

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    I have burned a Kent Tile Fire and a Lopi Endeavor in my my own home and in my shop. The Endeavor is the closest in operation to your Kent. One air control, one flue by pass for starting and refiring the stove just like you are used to. EPA tested at 1.9 grams hour and a little bigger firebox for a little extra heat on those cold nights. You could also look at the Lopi Republic 1750. It's the same firebox with no frills and no flue bypass at a real nice price.
  6. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    Be sure to consider the non-movable but non-durable parts like rebuilding a cast iron stove due to leakage between the panels and breaking the cheezy fiber baffle in the firebox of many others. I bought my soapstone stove becuase I was told that it didn't need periodic rebuilding due to expected joint degradation, otherwise it would have been steel plate.

    The PE stoves, not the summit with it's funky EBT auto air control, seem to be real close to your target since their baffles are metal and they burn long and clean.
  7. thechimneysweep

    thechimneysweep Minister of Fire

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    As a Kent owner, you're going to be very hard to please. If you want a stove that's the same size and shape as your Tile Fire, will install on the same hearth with the same clearances, and will hook up to the same connector pipe without modification, I'd recommend the Pacific Energy Super Series models, which can be viewed at http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacific.htm.

    Looking at the Super Series firebox, it is as if PE took a Tile Fire and added preheated secondary combustion air, ceramic blanket insulation, refractory firebox liner and smolder-proof draft control, while eliminating the need for the bypass mechanism. The result: a stove that loads and burns just like a Tile Fire, but achieves 69% efficiency at 3.4 grams/hr. Wood in, ash out, couldn't be simpler to operate. And all major components are covered by a lifetime warranty.

    When my Tile Fire bit the dust, I installed a PE Super Series Spectrum, and am still burning it 16 years later.

    Full disclosure: I am a PE dealer.

    Disclosure, Part II: That doesn't mean I'm not giving you the straight dope.
  8. Hakusan

    Hakusan New Member

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    Look at Lopi (low-pie) stoves. The Republic 1750 only has one control, is very efficient and puts out only 1.9 grams/hr (based on manufacturer's specs). The Pacific Energy stoves have more emissions, but are easy to use as well.
  9. carinya

    carinya New Member

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    Purely from a non-functional point of view, I have enjoyed the look of the tile that is used on each side of the Kent. But it appears that there isn't a similar looking option on the market today.

    Additionally, the Kent only weighs 230lb - an advantage when we move the unit aside for the summer season.

    With respect to emissions...how significant is the difference between 3.4gms/hr and 1.0gm/hr ?

    My Kent was rated at 12gms/hr so the PE Super would be reducing emissions to one quarter. But 1.0gm/hr would be reducing to one twelfth. I'm partial to the PE because of the metal baffle (is that the reason for the higher emission...)

    Is the difference worth taking into consideration with a masonry chimney ?
  10. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    No. The difference is a non-event. Go with an EPA certified stove that has the features you want/like.
  11. Richard

    Richard New Member

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    You maybe interested to know that the old kent tile fire is back on the market in New Zealand http://www.bbqfactory.co.nz/Product/Indoor_Heating/IH_Wood_Fires.aspx

    It is sold by a company over there called BBQ Factory. The kent Tile fire brings back many happy memories to all people invloved in the fireplace industry and it was sold in 100's of thousands around the world.

    Nowadays it needs to comply with both australian and new zealand emmission stds which is measured in grams per kilogram. The max rate is 4 grams per kilo so to comply it needs to be under that. (burning softwood) In the USA you measure at grams per hour, I am sure someone can do the maths perhaps?
  12. carinya

    carinya New Member

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    Thanks Richard.

    The kiwis have a double standard for wood burners - clean and non-clean !

    The Kent Tile being sold is noted as " Suitable for properties over 2ha (5 acres for the non-metric)". That means it doesn't comply with the NZ air quality standard you mentioned.

    While looking at this Kent I found that NZ has undertaken performance reviews of wood burners sold at retail for compliance with air quality standards. Giving a failing grade to the Kent generated threat of litigation "for earnings lost as result of the burners’ (temporary) suspension from the Council’s approved list."

    Are wood stoves in the US retail market audited for compliance with original testing design etc and are these audits published online ?
  13. summit

    summit Minister of Fire

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    PE spectrum series will be the closest in looks and operation... and don't believe the meager 69.3% efficiency rating in the brochure... they just tested for the 75% IRS efficiency guideline and passed so they now qualify for the tax credit. awesome, very durable and bulletproof stove.
  14. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Our next door neighbor has this stove and I believe they would entirely agree with that summary. It is super easy to operate and holds a fire very well.
  15. carinya

    carinya New Member

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    One of the things that attracts me to the PE stoves is the stainless steel baffle. Presumably durable although one rating on Hearth.com suggests that it had warped, perhaps from overheating.

    I've owned the Kent for 15 years and have not had to make any repairs to it or spend anything on it.

    How do the EPA Phase II stoves stack up against this track record ?
  16. Richard

    Richard New Member

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    Carinya, you are right the Kiwis do have two standards, the official standard is AS/NZ 4013 which limits emmissions to 4 grams per kilogram of fuel burnt. Australia and new Zealand share many stds. In 2004 I think it was the New Zealand government legislated the 1.5 gram per kilogram limit as an internal std for wood stoves. Stoves that are under the 4 gram mark but exceed 1.5 grams can only be sold into certain areas. One of the criteria is that a house block be over 2 hectares as you say. We sell our full range of fires into New Zealand and they comply to AS/NZ4013 being under 4 grams. In some parts of NZ the limit is set down to 1 gram, Christchurch is one of those areas. The funny thing about the whole std however is that multifuel stoves, such as ones that burn wood/coal and have a grate are exempt.
  17. Bushman1

    Bushman1 New Member

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    The Vermont Iron Elm Stove is still available and it has a door and a butterfly air control mounted on the door. Check out the videos on you tube. I plan to buy one as soon as I can. Tax credit be dammed. One need not look further than GM and Chrysler to see what happens when you accept hand outs.


    Bushman

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  18. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    HehHeh . . . looks like a cast iron air-o-plane. :) ;)
  19. ControlFreak

    ControlFreak Feeling the Heat

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    Generally speaking, stoves made of steel are much more simple than those made of cast iron. The steel stoves are welded together while the cast stoves tend to be bolted together with gaskets between each piece.

    If you want simplicity, stick with non-catalytic steel stoves that have one control, one door, and no ashpan. IMHO.

    One stove not mentioned yet is the Napoleon. I'm going on 12 years with my 1401 insert.
  20. karl

    karl Minister of Fire

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    I, as well as atleast one other person on here has had the same experience with the PE baffle. They warp a little bit almost as soon as you fire the stove up. Well within a month or so. Then after that, they're fine. They don't warp anymore and they function just like new.
  21. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    So far we are not seeing any signs of baffle warping after 2 seasons of burning. With the enclosed baffle system the only part I expect to be replacing is the $2 secondary air gasket at the back of the baffle. This disintegrates when the baffle is pulled for cleaning. Which reminds me I need to order a package or try Hogwildz trick and make my own.
  22. karl

    karl Minister of Fire

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    BeGreen, when did PE change their baffle design? It was my understanding that years ago they had a steel baffle, then they changed it to stainless steel, and then sometime recently they modified the stainless design a bit. It this correct?
  23. carinya

    carinya New Member

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    From reading other posts I notice that firebrick can be a problem (my old Kent doesn’t know of such a thing). One poster noted that Quad firebricks last about two years - apparently they are made of a lighter substance than regular firebrick. I notice that Lopi uses bricks in the baffle.

    I’d be interested to know what has come up in the way of expenses/repairs for Tom Oyen’s Spectrum over the last 16 years.

    One downer on a PE stove is that for the past 15 years I've been feeding the Kent through a left hinged door - convenient for where the woodpile is.
  24. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    That's a better question to ask of Tom Oyen or Summit than me. I'm a recent owner and not deep into the development history of the stove.
  25. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    I believe the Alderlea series can be ordered with std. right-hinge, or optional left-hinged door.

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