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New Tax on hybrid cars

Post in 'The Green Room' started by Seasoned Oak, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. bmblank

    bmblank Minister of Fire

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    I have an idea, why don't we raise taxes on hybrids and use that money to pay for the tax incentive for people to buy hybrids!


    This whole thing is ridiculous.
    PapaDave likes this.

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  2. btuser

    btuser Minister of Fire

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    Foreign oil is not the enemy. Canada and Mexico would be plenty happy to sell their oil to Chindia. The devaluation of our currency (because we lose the petrodollar) will drive people to electric cars much faster than tax+spend manipulation.
    Frozen Canuck likes this.
  3. Grisu

    Grisu Minister of Fire

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    Then we better get our trade deficit under control. Right now, we give to our foreign trading partners more $ then they can spend by buying American made products and that since 1980. I don't have the time to add everything up but by now foreign countries must hold somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 trillion dollar. Now imagine you are an oil producer somewhere and those guys come waving with their green paper bills to buy more oil. You probably just open the shed, show them the stashes of $-bills you have there and tell them to stuff their greenbacks in ... you know where. Right now we are lucky that our trading partners invest their dollar only in US treasuries and US stocks. If they ever decide to use all that money to buy real goods and services you will see prices go through the roof. The other option is they exchange the dollar for the currency of a country that can actually sell them something with the result that the $ exchange rate will tank. Neither of the two options sound really appealing, I guess.

    The continuous trade deficit is a real problem in contrast to the government debt!
  4. btuser

    btuser Minister of Fire

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    It's over 90 trillion dollars. Our government debt isn't anywhere close to the actual amount. It's potentially much higher, considering a majority of financial contracts are written with dollars.
  5. Grisu

    Grisu Minister of Fire

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    ?? Where did you get that number? Overall US debt is around $60 trillion and certainly not all held by foreigners and $30 trillion would still be missing. I estimated that the trade deficit sine 1980 was approx. $300 billion per year for 32 years which makes roughly $10 trillion. That is probably overestimating it as the huge deficits of $500 billion and more did not start before 2000.
  6. Foragefarmer

    Foragefarmer Member

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    The article posted is misleading in so many ways it is not funny.

    It says gas tax should change to a percentage tax from a certain number of cents per gallon. Well that is what Virginia did.

    It also failed to mention that while the gas tax was reduced, the tax on diesel was increased. So it is not just hybrid and electric cars picking up the slack, the majority of the slack is being picked up by diesel vehicles.

    It makes the Gov. sound evil because he is a Republican. But fails to mention the transportation bill was a bipartisan compromise bill that had the overwhelming support of Dems. in the legislature. The tea party was incensed over the bill to the point that the Gov. is damaged goods; although he was already starting to look like damaged goods over something else, and they got two major Rep. backers of the bill defeated in the primaries.
  7. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Yeah but Virginia raising the sales tax and lowering gas taxes for road funds is a crock. Just ask somebody that drives about nine miles a week. Me.

    Taxing toilet paper to build roads? Excuse me but...
  8. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Put it that way and it sounds like an ass-fault exchange program.
    stoveguy2esw and Frozen Canuck like this.
  9. Grisu

    Grisu Minister of Fire

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    Of course the voted for this, given how much sh.. they are producing. ;)
  10. Foragefarmer

    Foragefarmer Member

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    I agree it is a crock,but y'all NOVA types needed to be appeased. ;)
  11. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    And got a higher sales tax in the bill than you did. Different taxes based on where ya live. Cheaper exactly 15 miles East of me. If I lived six miles farther South I would have a .7 less sales tax under this cluster.

    Of course my house would be in the down range portion of the Quantico firing range. <>
  12. Foragefarmer

    Foragefarmer Member

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    I know, but I got a larger fuel tax since I drive a diesel.
  13. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Matt, trucking companies may pass on some transportation costs, but the owner operator does not. He eats licensing, fees, fuel, maintenance etc.
    Now getting the illegal alien truck drivers to pay taxes and spend money in the US economy rather then send every cent back home to (pick any other country of your choice) would be a good start. They also drive the pay of hauling freight down, cause they will do it for much less than a US citizen trucker can afford to.
    Fed law states all commercially licensed truck drivers be able to read, write & speak English, I assure you this law is not well enforced.
    If big brother would work on enforcing laws already in place, rather than making new ones, this would settle itself. Same goes for taxes. Rather than make new taxes, why not start adjusting tax laws to kill corporate oversees accounts etc. Don't think to tax the working class more, make the corps who have the most money, yet pay the least taxes, pony up their share.
    Taxing tires would not be such a great idea if you had to drive for a living. I do, and I see no reason why I should have to pay more than anyone else because I drive a lot for a living.
  14. Why not just tax all vehicles with a high annual tax of $2,500 per vechicle? This wouldn't effect the rich b/c they have the money to just pay it and really they are only 1% of America's population. So in the big picture they aren't doing as much harm as the rest of the 99% of the people. This would be hitting the middle and lower class people more which is good b/c they are driving the older less earth friendly cars to begin with. But in the long run they would be saving more money, they just don't relies it. We are all in it together and it would make people not want to own cars and make people move into the cities and use their bikes which are earth friendly and more importantly no carbon emissions. It would make us use less oil too. There would be less pollution and people would be more healthy. Wouldn't this be great?
  15. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    Hybrid cars are by definition lighter weight and do minimal road damage. We have had a need for a long time to get solitary drivers OUT of gas guzzlers and into hybrids and high MPG cars. Taxing these further would be counter productive. IMO. THis coming from someone driving 2 gas guzzlers. IF gas taxes were higher, it might make economic sense for me to switch. At current prices it does not.
  16. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Weight is relative to size. Electric cars are heavier due to battery weight. That said I don't think they should be taxed until there is a meaningful percentage on the road. Most electric car owners also have an ICE vehicle so it's not like they aren't paying road taxes.
  17. semipro

    semipro Minister of Fire

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    Exactly!
    My hybrid gets about 27 MPG. I still buy gas, more than many more fuel efficient non--hybrids.
    Yet I pay extra for registration of my hybrid in VA? Go figure. Thanks Governor McDonnell.
  18. I think hybrid should be taxed a lot more or maybe just made illegal to have. If you are concerned about waste what do you think they do with the batteries in those cars? The amount of batteries these cars have is plain wasteful and all the toxicants that go along with them. It is sorta like the CFL bulbs with all the mercury in them. Just doesn't make sense.

    But in both cases people think they are saving the planet when they buy these cars and bulbs.

    By the way 27 mpg isn't good at all for a car like that.
  19. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    woodgeek likes this.
  20. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    I think the use of hybrids and now the GM volt has been instrumental in gasoline usage not increasing so much in recent years. May have kept the lid on prices to some extent.
    Although in not a fan of imports the prius deserves much of the credit for that.
  21. Vic99

    Vic99 Minister of Fire

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    Pruning, CFLs actually use less mercury (Hg) than traditional incandescents. A typical CFL has 3-4 mg of Hg. Most of our electricity comes from coal. When coal is burned Hg is given off and falls as a particulate contaminating soil and bodies of water. That's where a fair amount of Hg in edible fishes comes from. Pregnant women and kids are particularly susceptible to the nervous system issues.

    Since it takes less electricity to run a CFL than it does an equivelant incandescent, you are actually releasing less Hg into the envi. You can find a lot on this, but here's just one source:

    http://www.nrdc.org/legislation/files/lightbulbmercury.pdf

    Of course CFLs aren't perfect. LEDs could be the way to go as the price comes down.
  22. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    Got 3@ 40 watt equiv for $20 at Costco and 7@ 60w Equiv from my electric company free. Cost is in range right now.
  23. Vic99

    Vic99 Minister of Fire

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    Got one free myself during an energy audit. $10-13 is the best price I've seen here so far. Haven't tried Costco, though.
  24. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    3 for 20 is $6.66 each So not too bad.
  25. semipro

    semipro Minister of Fire

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    27 MPG is good for an SUV that seats 7, is 4WD, and tows well. I bought it with the intent of conversion to plug-in to take advantage of power from future PV panels.

    I suspect your sources of info may be badly biased. Batteries are recyclable and electric vehicles and energy efficient bulbs impact the environment less when life cycle analyses are considered. Life cycle (cradle to grave) costs are the key. All too often we only consider the immediate costs of something.

    There's no doubt that the materials/processes used in making electric vehicles need to be improved to lessen environmental impact. But the only way these will be improved is if we invest in their development through purchase. Like energy efficient bulbs, the initial investment in CFLs resulted in better CFLs and the development of LEDs. No manufacture wants to invest in a product that can't be sold because the price is too high. The popularity of CFLs demonstrated that bulbs costing more than a buck apiece were marketable and that some were willing to invest in the present to save in the future.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013

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