NEW TO BOILERS NEED HELP ON EDUCATION?

[Jabbers]

I have 900 square foot house and i'm thinking about getting a boiler. I would like to run piping under floor. i live on a 1/2 acre lot but would like to have an outside unit if possible. My uncle i WVA has a hardy boiler stove. All you have to do is put in the stove twice a day thats it. I'm not new to wood burning just boilers. Does some have a good place to go to learn about boilers? Thanks

 

[stee6043]

You're in a great place to learn about boilers. First question - do you have room to store a couple years worth of wood on your lot? Do you have access to free wood or will you have to pay for it? You should google a heat loss calculator (slantfin for example) and start by running an estimate on your house. That's a good first start.

While you're poking around on this site you might want to look at some of the more efficient alternatives to outdoor wood boilers...

 

[Jabbers]

I heat with wood right now but radiant heat is so much better. I have free wood and have plenty of storage. What should I be looking at thats more efficient?

 

[Jabbers]

I have a 900 sf ranch house with a 900 sf basement. I have a pellet stove in the basement for spring and fall which heats great. I have a oil furnace for emergency. I would like to use the radiant heat under my living space. What kind of boiler should I be looking at? Should I use a storage tank? Could I heat my own hot water? I just need some ideas. I'm new to the whole boiler thing. Thanks

 

[Gooserider]

I have a 900 sf ranch house with a 900 sf basement. I have a pellet stove in the basement for spring and fall which heats great. I have a oil furnace for emergency. I would like to use the radiant heat under my living space. What kind of boiler should I be looking at? Should I use a storage tank? Could I heat my own hot water? I just need some ideas. I'm new to the whole boiler thing. Thanks

That is a very small house and basement - I would almost think you'd need to expand just to have room for even a small gasification boiler and storage system... That said, I would expect any of the smallest size gassers and a storage system would work, but I'd expect storage would be essential since even a small gasser would probably be able to do more than your current house size. If you did go with a gasser, it should be possible to retrofit infloor radiant, and certainly any boiler w/ storage would be able to handle your hot water needs...

I would suggest reading through some of the threads on boiler selection, maybe look at some of the manufacturer / dealer sites (check out the banner adds), and start out by doing a heat load calculation for your house, as sooner or later you WILL be asked for it... You need to do a bit more homework to figure out what you want to do and what options you'd like to think about before we can really start to offer a lot of help. One good place to start is to look up the site that NoFossil runs - he has done a great job in his intro of going through a lot of the choices and options - you might not decide the same things he did, but at least he can help you figure out the questions...

Gooserider

 

[Floydian]

Hi Jabbers,

I'd say you have some serious research ahead of you. Luckily this is the BEST site for info on hydronic wood heating.

I can't tell you how many hours I have spent reading through older posts. All the information is here its just a matter of finding it.
Knowing what to search for is the key.

If you search "storage" at the bottom of the Boiler Room page you find lots of discussion on why its used.

As far as boilers go there a lots of choices. I would look at:

USA made:Garn, Econoburn, Wood Gun.

Imported: EKO, Tarm, Biomass.

I'm sure I'm missing a few but these are all gassification boilers that folks on this site have success heating efficiently with.

To answer your Questions:
1. That one will be for you to answer
2.I say yes. Storage can increase efficiency as well as give you more flexibility as to when you need to fire the boiler.
3.You can absolutely heat your domestic hot water(DHW). You will need a heat exchanger (HX)-more things to search!

Thanks to this site I will be installing a gassification boiler with a 1000 gallons of storage in several months.

Good luck,
Noah

 

[Gooserider]

Just as a quick note Jabbers, you had two threads started with very similar subjects - I have merged them to keep down confusion and avoid duplication... It helps if you can try to keep all the related discussion in one thread, as it saves everybody from answering stuff twice, and asking the same questions in both threads...

Gooserider

 

[Nofossil]

Jabbers, I was right where you are about five years ago. Lots of decisions, too much of some information and not enough of others. We documented our whole decision process here with the hope that it might be helpful.

 

[Jabbers]

Since my house is small i was hoping for a 1 zone simple system. I would like to install the radiant piping underneath the living space. I'm building at least one fire a day and starting a pellet stove so do i really need a storage tank. I understand the purpose but i would think with a small area being heated that there would be very little heat loss so 1 small to medium fire a day would be fine. What do you guys think.

 

[Nofossil]

Since my house is small i was hoping for a 1 zone simple system. I would like to install the radiant piping underneath the living space. I'm building at least one fire a day and starting a pellet stove so do i really need a storage tank. I understand the purpose but i would think with a small area being heated that there would be very little heat loss so 1 small to medium fire a day would be fine. What do you guys think.

You could do what I did - start without storage, but design the system so that storage can be added later if you desire. It's by no means a requirement.

 

[Jabbers]

How long does it take to feel heat from a boiler system?

 

[Gooserider]

How long does it take to feel heat from a boiler system?

Another very tough call... Again, it all depends on system design, starting temps, what the load looks like, and so on... At a guess, I would tend to say that fairly typical for most boilers is 20-30 minutes from initial lighting to when you start getting enough heat to start turning on circs, and another 20-30 to get up to full blast output. How long it takes for the house occupants to start noticing is harder to predict as it depends on to many variables about how the system is constructed (slabs take longer to respond than CI rads or flat panels, how much heat is going into warming storage or DHW tanks, how big is the system, etc)

Gooserider

 

[flyingcow]

What do you have for a delivery system now? Baseboard/air? I fire my boiler from a cold start, I'll have 155/160 degree water coming thru my baseboard in about 30 minutes. 185+ in 50 to 60 minutes. My kitchen floor is staple up radiant. Your looking at an hour or two for it to get comfy. My rad flr will shut off, in the shoulder season, than turn back on. takes a while. Radiant flr is a nice way to go. Especially with your existing system.
I looked into OWB at first. Wasn't really what i wanted, but looking at everything. $11-12,000 for a OWB up here. I could buy a gassification boiler and tank for that price. Plus install, but I'll recover that dollar figure in a few years, because of less wood usage. To start with, build an out building, put a indoor gassification boiler in it. Insulate it, etc. Run off of that far a few years, install rad flr or low temp radiators as you can afford it. Put in storage, if you want to. I think if you look at this option, you won't be out anymore money than a OWB, and be burning less wood. Emitting zero smoke while burning. keep the neighbors happy. Good man cave possibilities, if you add a few square feet to the out building. ) This is the site to be at!! tremendous amount of great people and good advice! We're what you'd call "wood porn" junkies.
GET your wood cut and split now! Dry wood is a must. At least years seasoning. Maybe your doing that now. BTW, my wood boiler is next door in the unattched garage, my tank is in the basement of my house.

 

[Jabbers]

I live in NE OHIO and I have oil FAF heat which I don't use very often about 100 gal a year. My living space is 900sf my basement is 900sf. I was thinking of running 1 run under my living space at first and maybe adding on later. I have been looking at the Wood Gun E100 with an oil option and like that. What are some good web sites to go to and see all the different radiant systems?

 

[Gooserider]

It would look to me like the optimal approach would be a small boiler and storage (probably could even get away w/ a 500 gallon tank - perhaps a vertical propane tank?) in a shed, possibly combined w/ some wood storage and other (shop?) type space...

If you only have 1/2 acre though, you might want to look into what your local zoning regs will allow in the way of outbuildings before going to far...

I don't know of any good single site to look at all the boiler options, but if you check out the banner adds at the top and bottom of the posts in the boiler room, you will pretty quickly find the dozen or so vendors and brands that do gasifiers...

That said, if you want a combined wood and oil unit, the only options I know of are the Wood Gun, and possibly a model or two from BioHeat - but it isn't an option I've been looking at real closely since I don't need that approach...

Gooserider

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Since my house is small i was hoping for a 1 zone simple system. I would like to install the radiant piping underneath the living space. I'm building at least one fire a day and starting a pellet stove so do i really need a storage tank. I understand the purpose but i would think with a small area being heated that there would be very little heat loss so 1 small to medium fire a day would be fine. What do you guys think.

It sounds to me like you need to understand the storage theory better. I only understand it as a theory, since I don't do storage. Many here do storage and you will find quite a bit of value once you get inside their heads.

As a left-field point-of-reference, I am in update NY, 4,000 SF of radiant, and I am running a GreenWood 100 (as in 100kBTU). My gut tells me you are going to have trouble heating <1,000 with a wood-fired hydronic without storage. As NoFo says, it can be done. But it will probably require the smallest unit you can find and being VERY Careful about the size/quality of your loads. Idling is the enemy. If your house is on a small lot and you have neighbors, idling will eventually get you trouble with neighbors and/or big brother.

Your heat loss MAY be in the realm of a fire every 3 days with radiant and storage.

My $0.02 (probably worth less than that) that this late in the season, don't make any purchase decisions. Go with what you have and works for this year, while getting yourself educated.

Not sure if we're supposed to cross-post here, but another great site is

http://www.heatinghelp.com


Jimbo

 

[ihookem]

Jabbers, I think your best bet is an EKO 18. Sounds like you are in the city so a smoker is not so good. I have an eko 25 and heats 2200sf with 9' walls real easy at -3 this morning. Insulate your house if it's not, and if you do you might be happy with what you have. 900 sq. ft is easy to heat if insulaed. I say this cause I'm amazed how many homes don't have proper insulation in the attic and it's cheap in the long run. Go from there. Storm windows and so forth. Woodgun 100 and Econoburn 100 will toast you right out of your house, they are just too big. The way to go is an EKO 18. The eko 18 is 61,000 btu.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Jabbers, I think your best bet is an EKO 18. Sounds like you are in the city so a smoker is not so good. I have an eko 25 and heats 2200sf with 9' walls real easy at -3 this morning. Insulate your house if it's not, and if you do you might be happy with what you have. 900 sq. ft is easy to heat if insulaed. I say this cause I'm amazed how many homes don't have proper insulation in the attic and it's cheap in the long run. Go from there. Storm windows and so forth. Woodgun 100 and Econoburn 100 will toast you right out of your house, they are just too big. The way to go is an EKO 18. The eko 18 is 61,000 btu.

Ok, this is great. . . . We now know what brand and size is right for this guy?!?? Amazing!!

Yes, I'm flaming! :coolmad:

We owe it to this guy to help educate him on all the things to consider, all the nuances of wood-fired hydronics.

Every style, every brand has it's strengths and weaknesses. We do a big disservice to someone, especially someone so far down the learning curve, to tell them we know exactly what size and brand of boiler he needs.

Unless, of course, you're a salesman . . . :sick:

 

[ihookem]

I did a disservice? Where. I said a Woodgun or Econoburn 100 (smallest they make) would toast him out of his house. You have 4 times the space he does with a 100. I said he might do with what he has if Jabbers insulates his house if it isn't. What is wrong with that? It seems he lives in town. Suggesting an regular owb most likely won't work. What's wrong with that? An Eko 18 for 900 sq.ft sounds like an obvious option. What's wrong with that? Later, (not flaming)

 

[Jabbers]

I might want to put a radiator in the garage and heat the basement if its still chilly so I have more that 900sf.