New to coyotes

[SE Iowa]

Wow! 50-60 lb coyotes. We've had them forever but come in around 25-35lbs mostly. They look bigger though. Ours wouldn't take a healthy deer down either. They are heavily hunted usually by groups of hunters out here b/c we have lots of wide open spaces and they run fast/far. I know of one guy who has shot 40 of them just this winter. We never seem to knock the populations down though.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Coyotes here have been known to chase down deer in snow- a thinnish ice cover may provide enough strength that the yote can skate across the top as the deer's hooves punch through, slowing it down. Out at the Quabbin reservoir in MA, I remember that they would chase deer out on the ice and let them fall through. I would guess that their "ruthless murdering" serves the purpose of leaving carrion for a later meal. Kill it while you can- especially in cold weather- though the artificial excess of deer that we have now may just stimulate the hunting instinct.

I would guess that the chance that a coyote finds certain game is much higher now with all the deer etc, and they are geared towards getting them when they can (as the carrying capacity of the land was much lower when they evolved).

50-60# would be very large. 30-50# is much more typical for Eastern coyote, which- as I said- is more like 10# heavier on average than the western cousins.

 

[dvellone]

Here they'll run a deer onto the ice and then it's an easier kill. I've seen them run across the road in front of the car a few times in the winter and they look big in their winter coat.

Roland Kays, the mammal curator at the New York State Museum concluded in a recent study that the larger size of the Eastern coyote is attributed to it's being genetically part wolf. Very interesting story. http://adirondackexplorer.org/out-takes/tag/coyote/

 

[verne]

i have a few recent pics of coyotes and a fox .I have not been able to re-size any thing right yet so lets see...

 

[leaddog]

Sorry where it offends, but the animals got to remember who's boss. Boss says you can have your own space, make all the noise ya want. But you gotta leave the Boss's stuff alone. That includes people and animals that the Boss owns. But if yer a solitary kyote', you prolly ought to be more scared of my dawg than my shotgun. He's less than a year old, but he's pushin 80# already and I think once he realizes you aint friendly, he's gonna get really ugly. Me, on the other hand, am already ugly. But my aim sucks. But you will be suprised how I can empty that Mossberg :lol:

Most dogs won't stand a chance agains a coyote. They are killing machines and know how to do it quick. They don't hunt like dogs either. When in a pack they don't hunt together they spred out and push game to each other. You think a fighting dog is visious? they don't know anything. A coyote know where to tear to put them down and then where to kill. Ham string and tear the throat or gut. When the coyotes move in here the rabbits are GONE in one nite. They don't hurt the grown deer population unless the is crusty snow and then they will really tear them up. They are very hard on the fawn crop but because the deer tend to drop fawns at the same time most make it.
They are predators but humans are higher on the predator list. That said we as predators can't come close to wiping them out as they are VERY smart and adapable. If you call one in and don't get him you probably will never call him in again. The young ones are easier but the old ones die of old age.
They are also carriers of most dog parasites including heartworm. They were also hit very heavy with parvo before most vets even knew what parvo was but they carry natual immunity now. they have to be healthy or they don't make it so they tend to have strong systems. When I was dog sled racing we (dogsled racers ) were the first to find what parvo was and were vacinating with cat distemper vacine before the pet vets had ever heard what it was. ( it mutated from cat distemper) . by the time the vets were crying that the dog population was doomed it had aready spead throughout the whole canine world population, The pet vets bought up all the vacine so we had a very hard time getting any and they charged us a HUGE price. But because there were several vets that raced they helped us get it. It was hard on pets but it also dropped the coyote population down for only a couple years.
leaddog

 

[raven]

bingo........adios i think ya hit the nail on the head.I would say every one on this site can count to 10 easy. Now you take a whole dam pack a yotes and between them all as cunning and adaptable as they are they couldent count to 2. lol .Lets face it we are at the top of the chain. Although we are capable of being as dumb as stumps. I for one have a freezer and can goodies for future use, go to the store to pick up snacks for things like an up comming basket ball game ...like the one between the Cavs and Celtics comming soon. lol Coyotes are killing machines.Like leaddog says they know their business,they have to its what they are ...predators. They do understand hunger and the need to feed or die.What is seen in our eyes as meaningless killing may be just that in our eyes. Coyotes cant count to 10,dont have freezers and dont live by the 9 to 5 rules. I am sure that just 1 of those meaningless killings in our eyes has been the only thing that has stood between life and death for the coyotes many a time. Man has for the most part climbed out of the natural ways in nature long ago, nature is what it is and has no way of understanding us. Its up to us to understand. Calling the coyote a murder just isn't right or accurate in my opinion. Im not the oldest or wisest kid on the block ,in almost 60 yrs there hasent been a day go by that something in nature hasent stopped me in my tracts be it a flight of geese or the way the wind moves across the water that hasent made me feel richer for the experience. Its 2010 boys and girls...sorry but murdering coyote just dosent cut it in my book.
Wayne

 

[mainstation]

Local hunting and trapping of coyotes does not generally lower their population, since they can increase their reproductive rates more than enough to compensate.
Their population is limited by food, habitat and higher level predators.
The northeastern coyotes are significantly larger than the typical western animals, possibly cross-breeding with wolves or dogs, or possibly just size increase in the absence of higher predators.

+1
I have a pack that runs the 200 acres across the road from my house. I can usually hear them most nights, howling to each other--calling out locations etc. In the spring the howling is closer and more pronounced. Right now local guys are running dogs on sunny days , hunting coyotes for sport, there hasn't been a bounty on them for years around here. Experts say if you have a wolf population, then you don't have coyotes and vice versa. We have a cat and a border collie (45#) and am not really worried about them being taken by the coyotes.
Be smart, know your bush/surroundings and keep your eyes open.

 

[Snag]

Here's an interesting study on the size differences based on range location, for those interested. Avg. 18 - 30 pounds for the western and 35 - 40 for the eastern, with the largest dog captured at almost 75 pounds and largest groan weighing in at a tad more than 55 pounds.
http://easterncoyoteresearch.com/downloads/RecordLargeCoyoteWay.PDF

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Most dogs won't stand a chance agains a coyote. They are killing machines and know how to do it quick. They don't hunt like dogs either. When in a pack they don't hunt together they spred out and push game to each other. You think a fighting dog is visious? they don't know anything. A coyote know where to tear to put them down and then where to kill. Ham string and tear the throat or gut. When the coyotes move in here the rabbits are GONE in one nite.
leaddog

Well, I'm no expert on kyotes, but they pass by my house nearly every night. The rabbits are still here.

I grant you my dog's a baby yet, but he naturally very dog agressive. We try to stay together when we walk in the woods. Funny how the kyotes know not to mess with humans. Kinda like the bears are scared sheetzless of dogs. Go figure.

BTW. . .you sled dogs. . .what kind?

 

[leaddog]

I grant you my dog's a baby yet, but he naturally very dog agressive. We try to stay together when we walk in the woods. Funny how the kyotes know not to mess with humans. Kinda like the bears are scared sheetzless of dogs. Go figure.

BTW. . .you sled dogs. . .what kind?

I started with Alaskan Malamutes, Showed and raced them (had three American and Canadian champions). They were way to slow for racing. Moved up to racing alaskan huskies. I drove in the unlimited class 13 to 14dogs, My wife ran a 5dog team and my kids ran in the 3 dog class. I also raced in a 150 race in the UP. I was President of the Great Lakes Sled Dog club for several years and a Regional Director for ISDRA for several years (International Sled Dog Racing Assoc.) Raced in The midwest and Traveled all over the US and Canada with the club bussiness. It was a great hobby,but very time and money consumming. When I sold out I had 65 dogs and lots of equipment. At the time I was also working 6 and 7 days a week, building a house, and trying to be competitive in racing. I don't know where I ever got the time as now that I'm retired I don't get any thing done. I only have one dog now, a lab thats about 12 years old, deaf and lame. so getting back on topic, He ran off once last summer and was gone for a week. I thought for sure the coyotes had got him but he showed up one morning. Really lame but happy to be home. He really doesn't like to hear them howl though now. Must have had an encounter when he was gone.
leaddog

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

I started with Alaskan Malamutes, Showed and raced them (had three American and Canadian champions). They were way to slow for racing. Moved up to racing alaskan huskies.

leaddog

Ever use or see someone use an Akita? I heard once that they have been used as lead dogs. Our experiance with them is that it don't seem likely. Tought they are powerful and great companions to people, they simply have to be top dog in their minds. But back to your Huskies . . . any interaction between the kyotes and them in the past?

Jimbo

 

[leaddog]

Ever use or see someone use an Akita? I heard once that they have been used as lead dogs. Our experiance with them is that it don't seem likely. Tought they are powerful and great companions to people, they simply have to be top dog in their minds. But back to your Huskies . . . any interaction between the kyotes and them in the past?

Jimbo

I never saw anyone use an Akita not that noone ever did as most breeds have been tried. I don't think they would have been good for the reason you stated. That is one of the reasons that Malamutes aren't used more as they are head strong and tend to like to fight with the same sex. You have to be top dog and be on your toes . Alaskans are dogs that are cross breed with different breeds but breed for racing. They have to be team dogs and get along with each other along with lots of other attributes. They are true athletes and are really amasing animals. They really LOVE racing.
I never had any interaction with coyotes and the dogs then or hear of any. At the time I was racing there were few coyotes around here 70's and 80's. I did know of a guy that ran wolf cross dogs. They weren't very fast but powerful. They were true wolf crosses where MOST people that said they had wolf blood had husky crosses. He was a very good friend and he tought me alot about them. They didn't make good pets period. If you didn't understand them you were in trouble. In crossing them it wasn't easy to do as there breeding habits are different and most times they wouldn't accept the other. I have heard of coyotes and dogs crossing but I think it would be very rare for the same reason. They really are enemies just like coyotes will kill foxes, and wolves will kill dogs.
leaddog

 

[jotul8e2]

Picture taken in Ottawa last week. They are really moving up North.
Another non native animal that has moved to the region big time is the wild turkey.
Climate change?

Coyote populations rise and fall with the population of their food sources. There is a very high correlation between the number of coyotes and rabbits at any given time.

I live in very close proximity to coyotes - I've heard their pups joining the sing-alongs 50-60 yards from my house, so I know they have dens nearby. Judging by the sound of their howling at night there must be five to eight dozen within earshot most of the time. However, I have only actually seen one twice in the past four years. On the other hand, if their tracks in the snow mean anything they must see us quite often.

We don't let our pets roam outside.

 

[dougstove]

This an interesting thread.
Leaddogs: I am currently training up two eurohounds (alaskan husky/german short hair pointer lines) for skijoring. Fast as blazes, but not as woods-smart as a typical alaskan or malamute.

 

[ChillyGator]

Hi
I'm used to wolfs and black bears around my cottage. But this year we got coyotes for the first time.
So I'm not familiar with then, but I notice that they do venture closer to the cottage than other predators.
Anything to watch for ?

My brother and I have both seen them chasing deer (does/fawns) during daylight. I shoot em on sight but you have to be prepared to cull a few german shepards from time to time. :bug:

 

[StackedLumber]

Heading out in the am w/ a group of running walkers for yotes. Had one try to attack me once. I was turkey hunting w/ my dad and had killed on and pulled it up to me. I returned to calling for my dad and it brought one in. It apparently saw or smelled my turkey next to me and kept coming closer and closer I stood up and realized that it was under 10 yrds from me and it stopped and growled at me and stood it's ground. It got a face full of turkey shot, and went off to the fur traders.

The old timers around here tell of times they would pull in $3000 a person hunting and trapping coyotes during a winter. Most of the furs goes to russia, same with most of the coon furs that get traded here.

In my experience, coyotes are brazen around kids (had one here checking out a playground once) and small dogs. But they run and run when you let the hounds out on them.

 

[StackedLumber]

I've never really understood the "let a predator" live argument.

If you believe in evolution, then survival of the fittest means you kill those that kill or attack what you a.) love (kids, pets, self) and b.) what you eat (deer, chickens, turkeys)

If you believe in creation, then man's at the top of the food chain and has dominion over all by order of God.

 

[Cluttermagnet]

Coyotes have recently been sighted and trapped in small numbers in my area, after many years with absolutely none around. I'm not particularly a 'woodsman' type. I don't hunt, but don't have anything against hunting, either. I like rabbit and venison, etc. In the case of a fox, rabid or otherwise, I'm pretty confident I could successfully defend myself and safely leave an area. Not that that should ever be necessary. They are pretty solitary hunters and fear man.

Coyotes are different. Bigger. Pack hunters. Aggressive, and apparently they will kill 'needlessly', the same way foxes will mess up a hen house- kill several, but drag off maybe one bird. No wolves around these parts, and bear sightings are extremely rare. But this coyote thing has started me debating internally whether or not I'd want to carry a sidearm in the woods (illegally in some local jurisdictions). I never would have had that debate prior to the reappearance of coyotes in the area. First more or less 'serious' predator around these parts in a very long while. Bear, wolves, big cats, even rattlesnakes have been hunted to near extinction in this part of the country.

For sure, I think I could easily start carrying some heat on the large private properties I cut wood on. (No problem getting the owners' permission to do that) Other than those places, I'm not 'in the woods' all that much anyway. I guess my chainsaw could be pretty menacing, too- but a firearm 'starts' a lot faster than a 2-cycle that might need a few squeezes of gas to prime it if cold.

 

[zzr7ky]

Hi -

I am an outdoors enthusiast and have been for decades. I'm not a fan of leaving Coyotes to do as they please but the only serious threats I've faced have been packs of dogs. Some with collars; a nice looking Irish Setter lead one pack.

Better living with proper tools and training.

ATB,
Mike P

 

[JustWood]

http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/coyote-caught-in-big-apple-18811789#video=18813523

 

[Jay H]

http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/coyote-caught-in-big-apple-18811789#video=18813523

Yup, that was all over the news here around NYC. Found it on the lower west side, by canal st and the west side highway. They tranquilized it and are supposedly bringing it to the bronx zoo.

As a wildlife lover, love to see it released to say the Catskills where there are already a natural coyote population but usually a coyote would not really wander to NYC, unless it can't catch prey/carrion which is generally easy to find in a city, or garbage. Therefore, there is probably a good chance that the coyote might be old/diseased or both. Which makes it problemsome for relocation back to the wild. If it can't get food in the wild, an easy solution is to move towards civilization. happens with coyotes, deer, bears, humans...

Jay

 

[DavidV]

We have them here in Central VA. 10 years ago you didn't hear of it. We have them in the area I live in. I recently read an article that quoted a state wildlife study (not VA) where they looked at the stomach contents of a coyote taken in urban areas and most of them had cats as their last meals. I know that they are starting to become a problem for farmers in our area....although most farm land around here has turned to residential developments.

When I was a kid in Culpeper we had problems with packs of wild dogs roaming and destroying livestock and attacking peoples housepets. When I was out squirrel hunting if we saw packs of dogs we killed as many as we could. I'm sure you would have Peta on you these days. I haven't seen any coyote while I am deer hunting but if I did, I'd shoot them. The state allows them to be hunted all year long. If they become a serious problem here, I'm sure we will increase our hunting of them to compensate.

 

[dogwood]

When the coyotes moved into our neck of Virginia a few years back the thing that disheartened us was that all the small wildlife on our land disappeared including rabbits, squirrels, turkeys, chipmunks, groundhogs, raccoons, foxes, and the like. Deer and mice seemed unaffected, but we missed the rest of the critters. On the other hand there was a lot less fruit removed from our home orchard by critters. The coyotes seem to have moved on after they had eaten everything alive. The wildlife has rebounded, except for the groundhogs, who I don't miss at all. Locals here think they have interbred with dogs to account for their small size relative to their western cousins. The ones here look considerably smaller than those I'd seen in Western Washington State when living there. At first I thought they were large foxes. They are incredibly fast and can turn on a dime. I watched one dodge traffic on Interstate 220 and was amazed. I was hoping they'd eat my neighbors dog who barks all night but no luck there.

Mike

 

[Rustaholic]

I have been here at this location 34 years now.
We have a rabbit year then a coyote year or two then rabbits then coyotes,,,,,,,
Last Summer and all Winter it has been rabbits.
I sure hope the coyotes come back and eat the rabbits.
I have had coyotes in my back yard 15 feet from the house.
At the same time two dogs outside and the neighbor had 15 or 20 feral cats.
The coyotes ate the rabbits then left.

I had to shoot the feral cats.

 

[Tony H]

We have coyote in the woods behind the house , there are about 30 acres of wooded land along the river (wish it was all mine) so we always hear howling at night and the population of small game drops and rebounds as they come and go. I prefer they go and we get back the fox that they ran off we have also spotted wolves and even had a bobcat living in the area and would see him hunting the bushes along the drive and garage at times.
The only time a coyote got too close was last year I was cleaning up an oak near the back of the yard about 20' from the start of the woods and he came up and started making that low growling like sound like hey this is my space. I was on the near side of the tree with a running chainsaw and I walked to the other side and got on my 4wheeler to go get a gun. Then one of the neighbor dogs spotted him and started barking him and heading toward him when he turned and walked the tree line for a bit and then turned into the woods.
I thought maybe he was sick or had rabies because they don't usually come anywhere near us , I see them along the edge of the woods early in the morning most of the time. I do like to keep the chipmunks in line but I wish they would get alot more squirrels.