New to Pellet Stoves - Have questions on Englander and more?

[PA GREG]

Hello,

I am new to Pellet stoves and am seriously considering one to put into my garage. I have been lurking here quietly for some time and reading as much as I can.

My first thought was to purchase one of the Englanders from HD. However, it seems like all the posts on them here on this board are negative dealing with a problem. Is this true or just my imagination? Does anybody have one of these stoves that they really like and has been problem free?

If not the Englander, how bout some more ideas? We have a local store that sells primarily Harman and Breckwell. This is going to be a garage install so looks are not important. I'd like to keep my stove investment to around $1800.

Thanks

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Most threads get started because someone has a problem with their stove.

If you were to look closely, most problems are due to improper cleaning aka the dirty stove syndrome, a good number of the rest are from improper installation, in particular not paying attention to the venting requirements of the stove.

So if you want to point the finger at what are "problem stoves" you must first ignore the problems that are owner caused. That figure is huge and then look at the percentage of problems that were not user caused in relation to the installed user base for the stove.

Now if you have been paying attention you'll also note that imacman put over a ton of pellets through his stove without doing any cleaning or opening the door. His stove is an England Stove Works stove. In addition Eric from Kinsman Stoves has been burning a Heatilator pellet stove only cleaning the glass so potential customers can see the pretty fire for over two months.

Basically it goes like this, this site is not a stove review site nor is it representative of any manufacturer's line of products. Put in pellet burning terms YMWLV (your mileage will likely vary).

ETA: Best you check your local code before putting a pellet stove in a garage.

 

[kofkorn]

If you research nearly any stove on this site, you'll probably come to the same conclusion. The majority of posts on here are for people looking for help. Pellet stoves in general are not like your furnace where you can set it and leave it alone. They require continuous upkeep and you will at a minimum be adding pellets on a daily basis. They also require routine cleanings to keep them working well.

As pellet stoves go, the Englander stoves are a good entry level stove IMO. We've had two for about three years now, and have not needed to replace any parts other than gaskets since we've owned them. There is a user on this site (Mike Holton) who works for (I think he actually manages) Englander's service department. There are not many people who have had to deal with their service department that have come away unhappy.

In my experience the Englander stoves are pretty good about burning most brands and types of wood pellets pretty well. They are a great entry level stove that will give off good heat. They don't necessarily have all of the features, like auto-off/auto-light, but you probably won't need that for a garage any way.

One word of caution, Pellet stoves do not give off the heat that wood stoves do. They are much better suited for a nice steady even temperature over a long period of time. If your garage is not properly insulated, or you are expecting to light the pellet stove in a cold garage and have it be nice and toasty in a half an hour, you will be very disappointed. There is a whole list of people who have put their pellet stoves in un-insulated basements and get nearly zero heat out of them. It all gets lost to the cool walls.

Good luck with your installation!

EDIT ---- Sorry Smokey, You type faster than I do. Didn't mean to repeat half of what you said

 

[mike56]

all stoves have issues, i own a 25pdvc and so far i have not had any major issues, except for certain types of pellets, stove is running 24/7 shut down once a week for a good cleaning, keeping the house nice and toasty.

 

[Don2222]

Hello

Most people including myself have small problems in understanding how to take care of them and how to use them. Now that we do there are very few if any problems. There are better stoves that can handle all brands of pellets. I have an Avalon Astoria that I really like. The Harman and Eviro stoves are also very good. For the money you want to spend I would highly recommend the Englander Mult-Fuel 10-CPM at Lowes or Home Depot. It is the best for your money and you can get by without cleaning it for a month! Not many stoves can do that. Perfect for garage install! Especially if you want to burn the cheap pellets!! It saves more money

I have seen it cheaper than the listed price below and it is worth every penny! So shop around.
http://www.lowes.com/webapp/wcs/sto..._mmc=SCE_become-_-become-_-11122010-_-Summers Heat 2200 Sq. Ft. Multi-fuel Pellet Burning Stove 49-SHCPM


2200 Sq. Ft. Multi-fuel Pellet Burning Stove

* Heats up to 2200 sq. ft.
* Large, convenient ash drawer.
* Outside Air Kit included! (Over $60 value)
* Mobile home approved.
* Proudly made in U.S.A.
* Pellet stove that also burns corn, cherry pits, and more!
* Unique Auto-Start igniter lights the toughest of fuels, including corn!
* E.P.A Certified as a pellet-burning unit that can also burn other fuels.
* Realistic brick fiberboard in firebox.
* Decorative side panel inserts included! Lip trim available.
* User-friendly control board is pre-programmed for different fuels.
* Beautiful cast door with Straight-Lift door latch and extra-large glass.
* Thermostat adaptable: Thermostat can turn unit off and relight as needed!


Wood or Pellet Burning Pellet
ETL Safety Listing Yes
Pedestal Base Yes
Brick-Lined Firebox No
Air Wash System Yes
Warranty Limited 5-year
Fuel Capacity (lbs.) 50.0
Auto Ignition Yes
Touch Pad Controls Yes
Outside Air Kit Yes
Built-In Variable Speed Blower Yes
BTU (BTU) 52000.0
Catalytic/Non Catalytic Non Catalytic
Type Freestanding
Heating Area (Sq. Feet) 2200.0
Hopper Capacity (Cu. Feet) 1.25
Ash Drawer Yes
Blower Yes
EPA Approved Yes
UL Safety Listing Yes
CSA Safety Listing Yes

Great Product
Overall Rating:

5 / 5
Ables
Location: Neosho, MO
Date: August 5, 2010
Features:

5 / 5
Value:

5 / 5
Design:

5 / 5
Quality:

5 / 5
Ease of use:

5 / 5
I bought this stove last year. I have a smaller heat pump for central heat and durring the coldest part of the winter it did not keep our home warm. I have a 2500 sq ft home and I purchased this stove to assist with heating. The Englander folks are very helpful if you have to call and last year I had times durring the winter where my central heat didn't have to even kick on because this stove kept the place nice and toasty. It fits a full 40 lb bag of pellets and will last you almost all day. Installing it is easy and the Englander folks are nice enough to include a very helpful DVD to walk first time users through operating the stove. Hands down I would recommend this stove to anyone!

 

[Panhandler]

It seems like this past week is "Englands Stove Week' with a higher than normal amount of posts from owners of this stove. Just seems to be a blip. It's not like this every week. Most problems can be solved on this board, especially with this company's senior tech a member. If not, ask around, their tech service is second to none.

 

[imacman]

PA greg,

what you seem to have missed while seeing all the Englander "problems" posts, is that there are also a LOT of "problems" posts from Harman owners too. And they are supposed to be the "Cadillac" of stoves. If I spent the $$ that people do on them, and then saw all the posts here, I'd think again about the Englanders.

Secondly, most of the posts that you see about problems with Englanders are stoves that were bought used....and they were for sale mainly due to the previous owners not knowing how to maintain a pellet stove in the first place.

Not saying that you must buy an Englander....there are a LOT of good stoves out there. St. Croix and Enviro make good stoves too. But if you don't take care of them, and keep them clean, ANY of them will develop problems.

EDIT:

As I typed this, there were 5 posts on the first page for Harman problems, and 3 for Englander.

 

[gpack]

I'll keep the comments going with total agreement that the stove is as good as....

how clean it is kept
pellet quality
set-up..

It took me two years (this is my fourth, maybe the fifth) of burning to learn how to adjust the stove and in particular what pellets to buy. Using Somersets this year and these are pretty clean. No auger jams, no overflow in the burn pot... Have not had one misfire or misfeed so far this year. Had quite a few in years past...

And looking at the second ton already, burned through about 1/2 so far...winter came too fast...not used to the single digits until January....

Using a Danson (Glow-Boy) No major failures: one igniter. Failed after 3rd season.

 

[Hot Times]

Well since it is plop on newbie time, might as well join in here too and get a kick.

First pellet stove was about 15 years ago. Out of a place called "HOT STUFF" in KC, Ks and later, THE JO. It had a triple wall pipe - burner air coming in on the outside and exaust on the inside. Kept the vent system fairly cool. Heated incoming are and maintained most of the heat. The triple wall allowed it to exaust directly outside of the house, no rise at all.

Doing the Englander mentioned above, the 49-

Got it about about 2 weeks ago. Installed and running but not effeciently. There was a wood stove there before - 6" line. I tied the new on into the old. The old had a top cap - two stories up but no elbow and vent set like the one that came with the unit.

Too much heat going out the pipes not enough staying in the room! Sent email to service nearlly a week ago and no response. Called last Thursday and got some suggestions.
So he suggested 2 things/problems:
1.venting too fast -
2.burner blower to high.

ANSWER1: On the draft, agreed but no suggestion made.
ANSWER2: Bring down the burner blower to 1. Well when I did, but the the fuel level has to be 1 as well. It locks them in together. . So I cannot burn more fuel to get more heat. This one is doing less that 30% of what my old one did about 15 years ago.

My 3rd concern it that something was wrong when it left the plant. Something connected wrong or missing or loose - it has a full time rattle at the bottom of the unit on start up. He gave no indication on this. Just a little frustrated here. The bottom is the blower for the ignitor.

Any thoughts? Going to try and call back again.

 

[imacman]

Doing the Englander mentioned above, the 49-

So he suggested 2 things/problems:
1.venting too fast -
2.burner blower to high.

ANSWER1: On the draft, agreed but no suggestion made.
ANSWER2: Bring down the burner blower to 1. Well when I did, but the the fuel level has to be 1 as well. It locks them in together. . So I cannot burn more fuel to get more heat. This one is doing less that 30% of what my old one did about 15 years ago.

My 3rd concern it that something was wrong when it left the plant. Something connected wrong or missing or loose - it has a full time rattle at the bottom of the unit on start up. He gave no indication on this. Just a little frustrated here. The bottom is the blower for the ignitor.

Any thoughts? Going to try and call back again.

Hot Times, first of all, what is the exact model? There are 2 stoves that start with "49".

I think you are confusing what the tech meant when he suggested lowering the blower setting. I don't think he meant the "heat" setting....he meant the lower button setting for the LBA (Low Burn Air). If set too high, you are sending too much hot air through the stove too fast and up the exhaust, and it never heats the room. If your exhaust pipe is drafting "too well", this adjustment made have to be made.

If you have the blower for the ignitor, you might try checking to see if the bolts that hold it are tight. The blower runs constantly at start-up, and some extra noise just goes along with that, but we did have a member last year who had a lot of noise from his, but his problem was that the blower was just defective.

So, what is the exact model, and what are the lower 3 buttons set at right now?

 

[Hot Times]

Doing the Englander mentioned above, the 49-

So he suggested 2 things/problems:
1.venting too fast -
2.burner blower to high.

ANSWER1: On the draft, agreed but no suggestion made.
ANSWER2: Bring down the burner blower to 1. Well when I did, but the the fuel level has to be 1 as well. It locks them in together. . So I cannot burn more fuel to get more heat. This one is doing less that 30% of what my old one did about 15 years ago.

My 3rd concern it that something was wrong when it left the plant. Something connected wrong or missing or loose - it has a full time rattle at the bottom of the unit on start up. He gave no indication on this. Just a little frustrated here. The bottom is the blower for the ignitor.

Any thoughts? Going to try and call back again.

Hot Times, first of all, what is the exact model? There are 2 stoves that start with "49".

Summers Heat 2200 Sq. Ft. Multi-fuel Pellet Burning Stove 49-SHCPM

I think you are confusing what the tech meant when he suggested lowering the blower setting. I don't think he meant the "heat" setting....he meant the lower button setting for the LBA (Low Burn Air). If set too high, you are sending too much hot air through the stove too fast and up the exhaust, and it never heats the room. If your exhaust pipe is drafting "too well", this adjustment made have to be made.

Well, they are just there. Nothing in the manual or DVD about adjustments that I could find. This is an LED opening above each one, but none are lit. So I will try that for effect.

If you have the blower for the ignitor, you might try checking to see if the bolts that hold it are tight.

I did after the "dry run" and it was better for a while.

The blower runs constantly at start-up, and some extra noise just goes along with that, but we did have a member last year who had a lot of noise from his, but his problem was that the blower was just defective.

Yep, it was really bad then. I can put my hand on it and it is quieter And the iginitor works well.

[/quote]....and what are the lower 3 buttons set at right now?[/quote] They are all "off", I thought they were for correcting ECodes only or were part of the codes.

By the way IMAC, thanks for the comments and suggestions. It makes me feel there is hope even when the line is busy, over and over again.

 

[Trophy_67]

I personally love my Englander 25-PAH, it has a 120lb. hopper (wich would be great in a garage) and I am on yr. #2 with this stove and it works very well, I have had NO ISSUES, I do a quick cleaning daily (clean glass,vacume burn pot and all the spots you can access easily, and clean the air intake ports that are around the corners) and a complete cleaning (remove blowers,clean exhaust pipe...etc.) after every ton burned.
Another thing I like is that this model has only 1 auger, less moving parts to worry bought.
She has just purred along making nice even heat for me since day 1.
just my review,
Tim

 

[MCPO]

Hello,

I am new to Pellet stoves and am seriously considering one to put into my garage. I have been lurking here quietly for some time and reading as much as I can.

My first thought was to purchase one of the Englanders from HD. However, it seems like all the posts on them here on this board are negative dealing with a problem. Is this true or just my imagination? Does anybody have one of these stoves that they really like and has been problem free?

If not the Englander, how bout some more ideas? We have a local store that sells primarily Harman and Breckwell. This is going to be a garage install so looks are not important. I'd like to keep my stove investment to around $1800.

Thanks

You WILL see more problems posted on this forum regarding Englanders pellet stoves and most problems are with the PDVC model . The common sense reasons are as follows:
1....It`s one of the least expensive entry level stoves , almost always in stock and readily available at Home Despot , Lowes, and many other Hardware chain stores , resulting in a great many of these units being sold and put into use and the same basic model (few changes)has been around for many years .
2.....The operating control pad can initially be somewhat involved for pellet stove novices. The available settings are vaguely explained in the manual.
3.....The Englander stoves are expressly marketed for the do it yourself type person.
4.....Other stoves problems are not as likely to be seen posted since they are sold and serviced through established dealers.
Be advised though regardless of any real or perceived stove deficiencies , Englanders over the phone service with a live technician that speaks real "English" is considered unequalled in the industry and extends far beyond the warranty period.

 

[Hot Times]

Hello,

I am new to Pellet stoves and am seriously considering one to put into my garage. I have been lurking here quietly for some time and reading as much as I can.

My early readings suggested that fire in a garage is not safe. Is that wood stoves or stoves that use room air for combustion only? Since the pellet units use primarily outside air it is not a problem?

2.....The operating control pad can initially be somewhat involved for pellet stove novices. The available settings are vaguely explained in the manual.

YES - this is becoming apparent.

Be advised though regardless of any real or perceived stove deficiencies , Englanders over the phone service with a live technician that speaks real "English" is considered unequalled in the industry and extends far beyond the warranty period.

First time I called was Christmas Eve and I was on hold for 20+ minutes. Got some good answers, but as was suggested, being a newbie I did not get full answers. Now, trying back yesterday - had a message from the Newsletter division that the lines were not busy????- busy signal for over 5 hours. Maybe New Years eve will be better? Wish there was a more complete operating manual - maybe members here could "write" guidelines that could be "stickied" in general operations thread by model number? Would save a lot of huntin' around?

 

[imacman]

Hot Times,

you have the same stove as I do....the 10-cpm. If you press the bottom buttons, a number will appear above it...that's what it's set at right now. The 10-cpm is supposed to be at 1-1-1, although i have run it at 1-2-1, or 1-3-1 when the stove starts getting dirty and needs more air to burn right.

To adjust the setting, press the button of the one you want to change, then press either BOTH up arrows or down arrows at the same time to change setting. Allow the numbers to go out, and it's set.

Remember, the last one (AOT) does NOT get changed at all.

 

[MCPO]

Hello,

I am new to Pellet stoves and am seriously considering one to put into my garage. I have been lurking here quietly for some time and reading as much as I can.

My early readings suggested that fire in a garage is not safe. Is that wood stoves or stoves that use room air for combustion only? Since the pellet units use primarily outside air it is not a problem?

2.....The operating control pad can initially be somewhat involved for pellet stove novices. The available settings are vaguely explained in the manual.

YES - this is becoming apparent.

Be advised though regardless of any real or perceived stove deficiencies , Englanders over the phone service with a live technician that speaks real "English" is considered unequalled in the industry and extends far beyond the warranty period.

First time I called was Christmas Eve and I was on hold for 20+ minutes. Got some good answers, but as was suggested, being a newbie I did not get full answers. Now, trying back yesterday - had a message from the Newsletter division that the lines were not busy????- busy signal for over 5 hours. Maybe New Years eve will be better? Wish there was a more complete operating manual - maybe members here could "write" guidelines that could be "stickied" in general operations thread by model number? Would save a lot of huntin' around?

OK, I shouldn`t have made it sound like Englanders service was perfect but a 20 -30 minute wait isn`t a big deal when compared to the many threads I`ve read where stove shop dealer service can be a week or more away.
Hey, it is a busy time of the season and you don`t do nearly as good with a new car dealer service after spending 20-35K or more either.
Besides Xmas eve or holidays just isn`t prime time for getting anyone to do anything.
I`ve got my stove(25 PDVC) in my rear garage and although not legal there ,I feel confident , safe , and secure knowing it`s a lot safer than my old woodstove was in there , but you have to use some common sense too and be aware that no explosive gasses are present and anything volatile must be kept a safe distance from the stove.

 

[littlesmokey]

Hello,



If not the Englander, how bout some more ideas? We have a local store that sells primarily Harman and Breckwell. This is going to be a garage install so looks are not important. I'd like to keep my stove investment to around $1800.

Thanks

Well, there is no stove I would recommend to install in a garage, or any room where flammables are not securely and tightly stored. Workshops with solvents and glues usually have a "paint-safe", but you don't put your lawnmower gas in a vapor tight can, nor do you empty your vehicle tank either.

Before you even think about a heating appliance in your "garage", spend some time with your building code people and see what they will allow. Also, spend some time going over your insurance paperwork and get a written, OK, to install a stove. If you have a fire, you could get denied any payments for an improper install, or even the presence of the stove. Realize, the insurer can cancel with cause.

You are going to get some arguments about, well my buddy did it and there was no problem, or what about the water heater in the garage, they let those stay..... There are a million exceptions, but bottom line is, you are taking a rather high risk without checking all the outside issues.

There are safe ways to install a stove, gas, wood or pellet, but they are considerations you need to make regardless of the stove you decide to use/not use.

I heat with a pellet stove in my home and my wood shop. My insurer knows about both and have no problem, if they were wood it would be different, but it's in writing, stored away from both buildings.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

Lets keep it simple.

Heatilator is my choice.

Call me if you need help. I am outside of Sharon, Pa
330-448-0300
Eric

 

[pony66]

I bought the Summers Heat version from Lowe's and had reservations regarding the bad reviews out there on the Home Depot and Lowe's websites. I have had my stove one month and couldn't be more pleased although I learned the stove is more of a get warm and maintain than a fire it up and comeback in a hour.When you consider that the big box stores do not install or provide service I can imagine that there are many poor installs by folks who do not properly clean them. I was worried about cleaning but find it very easy to do so as ash levels are very minimal. I bought my stove on sale with a 10% discount for $800 at Lowe's, almost half of their current $1600 price. It was the great price that ultimately helped me pull the trigger, and the ash buildup was much less than I expected.

I found the exact same stove locally last week (a 2006 stove ) on Craigslist with 19 bags of pellets for $250. The couple complained of smoke-back in the house. Their install did not have any rise in the stove, just 2 feet out the back only 1 foot above ground and the stove was slap full of ash!! I had no idea the heat exchanger could be that dirty and ash was in the blower as well. A good, thorough cleaning, and the stove works just as good as a new one. The folks were disappointed that they lost over $1000 on the stove and only used 3 seasons using 6-7 tons of pellets. Had they found this site and learned how to take care of the stove they would still be using it. I believe this is very typical of the average Lowe's/Home Depot user of Englander stoves.

Take care of it and it will take care of you.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

... Had they found this site and learned how to take care of the stove they would still be using it. I believe this is very typical of the average Lowe's/Home Depot user of Englander stoves.

Take care of it and it will take care of you.

I'm not so sure this is always true, there are folks who do come here, find out what can be involved, then still toss up their hands and sell the stove on Craigslist.

Do enough poking around and it isn't just the self installed Lowe's/Home Depot purchased stoves.

Most of the folks that give up sure would have been cold back in the days, you haven't seen ash until you have cleaned up after a coal furnace.

 

[pony66]

I do agree that a little laziness in conjunction with lack of mechanical aptitude is resulting in a poor direction for the country. But off my soap box, with a little initiative and home work, the prospective buyer should be fine........

It beats "just send me enough money in a hand put check to pay for the leave it set thermostat energy bill"

 

[MCPO]

Hello,



If not the Englander, how bout some more ideas? We have a local store that sells primarily Harman and Breckwell. This is going to be a garage install so looks are not important. I'd like to keep my stove investment to around $1800.

Thanks

Well, there is no stove I would recommend to install in a garage, or any room where flammables are not securely and tightly stored. Workshops with solvents and glues usually have a "paint-safe", but you don't put your lawnmower gas in a vapor tight can, nor do you empty your vehicle tank either.

Before you even think about a heating appliance in your "garage", spend some time with your building code people and see what they will allow. Also, spend some time going over your insurance paperwork and get a written, OK, to install a stove. If you have a fire, you could get denied any payments for an improper install, or even the presence of the stove. Realize, the insurer can cancel with cause.

You are going to get some arguments about, well my buddy did it and there was no problem, or what about the water heater in the garage, they let those stay..... There are a million exceptions, but bottom line is, you are taking a rather high risk without checking all the outside issues.

There are safe ways to install a stove, gas, wood or pellet, but they are considerations you need to make regardless of the stove you decide to use/not use.

I heat with a pellet stove in my home and my wood shop. My insurer knows about both and have no problem, if they were wood it would be different, but it's in writing, stored away from both buildings.

Oh yes, there`s codes and insurance to consider but there`s going to be an inherent risk with any stove in a garage , even if it`s just used for a wood working shop. Wood dust / sawdust is highly flammable and can be explosive especially if it isn`t exhausted . I`ve seen a new house burn down because the floor sander left a cardboard box full of of saw dust against the hydronic baseboard heat. (spontaneous combustion)
I`ve also seen a gas furnace ignite clothes dryer lint on the concrete floor in a home and cause major damage.

 

[Indiana]

I would like to add my 2 cents with imacman's. The LFF button and the LBA settings are crutial to the heat output and efficientcy of this stove. I have the same one and it, as well as all pellet stoves, requires monitoring based on the day temp and cleanliness of the stove. I run my stove LFF on 4 and LBA on 3 with a heat setting of 2 and blower on 8 during the really cold days. Just today the morning temp was 16 with a windchill of 2, but in the house it was 69 degrees. With that being said the wife called about 11:00 and said it's 76 degrees and she is burning up. I had her adjust the stove to LFF 2 and LBA 2 and heat setting of 6 and blower 8 to slowly cool down the home. Settled in a t 70 degrees but it was also 36 degrees outside. So like others have said it's not set it and forget it. The indoor temp problem can be rectified by a thermostat, but I have been too lazy to put it in. The Englander multi fuel is IMO the best bang for the buck. There are nicer looking stoves out there, but for the price, you can't got wrong with this one for the performance.

 

[Hot Times]

Hot Times,

you have the same stove as I do....the 10-cpm. If you press the bottom buttons, a number will appear above it...that's what it's set at right now. The 10-cpm is supposed to be at 1-1-1, although i have run it at 1-2-1, or 1-3-1 when the stove starts getting dirty and needs more air to burn right.

To adjust the setting, press the button of the one you want to change, then press either BOTH up arrows or down arrows at the same time to change setting. Allow the numbers to go out, and it's set.

Remember, the last one (AOT) does NOT get changed at all.

Great comment imac...did get though a backdoor at England and get some help on this one thanks to a dealer who shall remain nameless.

The other question is a flue run question. There was a heat stove there before. 6" flue. I tied into that old line once I was outside the house. The tech I spoke with thought that a long updraft like that could be a problem as well especially since it system had a cap instead of a turn. I insulated outside and closed the old old opening in the wall. I tied into the cleanout of the old system and sealed the stove silicone. Considering pulling the seal and doing the elbow and vent that came with the kit to slow the draft going out. Saw some one else mention venting problems in a later post. Any thoughts on that? Will reset to 1-2-1 for a started even though my "backdoor" guy at England said 4-5-1 and see what it does while I wait for more help here.

INDY3 - what are your setting? UP ABOVE and BELOW?

 

[Indiana]

Hot times...I change the numbers all the time based on the outside temp. During the 40 degree days I keep the top numbers at 6 and 8 and the bottom on 2-2-1. During the colder times like tonite...12-15 degrees, I change the top to 3 and 8. The bottom numbers are 4-4-1. Great heat output.