New to this all

[newbie 08]

The house we purchased has a black bart 3200 (date of 1980 on it) insert into an old double sided masonry fireplace. The back of the old fireblace has glas doors and opens to the garage. I have some insulation between the doors and the back of the insert to keep any heat in/cold out. The insert only has a couple of feet of pipe coming off of it directly and then it just opens up into the original chimney. I have so far determined from reading here that I probably need to have a full liner installed off of the top of the insert all the way up the chimney? Is this correct? If so, I am hoping to get it done in the spring. Also I am trying to determine if my insert is in need of replacing. It seems to work just fine for the most part. The blower works and it can certainly keep the housewarm. I can get a good fire going (usually need a firestarter though) but I have a hard time controlling the rate at which the fire burns. I would love to be able to keep the fireplace burning 24-7 but I find it to be impossible. I can't even get it to burn through the night most nights. The odd thing about it, is that there is no dampner on the insert. The only control I have to air is the two notches on the front that have sliders and which can be closed or slid to varying degrees of openness. So when I try to keep a fire going through the night it usually either all burns up before the am or if I close down the air too much the fire just goes out. Any suggestions? All other inserts I have seen have all had dampners on them? Is this common not to? The owners manual was left with the house and the insert did mention a dampner in the instructions.

Also, on a side note, what does creosote build up look like and do the chimneysweep logs that you see in stores actually clean this or do you need to have someone out?

Thanks for the help.

 

[newbie 08]

anyone? Please, I am lost here.

 

[moondoggy]

I have so far determined from reading here that I probably need to have a full liner installed off of the top of the insert all the way up the chimney?

YES! you are correct. that is safe and up to code. when was the last chimney inspection?

you should be restricting the air in small doses... a little at a time.

someone who knows your stove better is bound to answer better soon, but, circa 1980??? i'd see about getting a new stove, or a rebuild.

and the whole back to the garage thing worries me.

anyone else?

 

[DriftWood]

The best thing you can do is call in a professional chimney sweep you can trust get the chimney cleaned and inspected. He will set you straight fast.

A new stove or insert will need a liner to fit that stove or insert. It makes no sense relining to to old insert you have as the new stoves will burn 24/7 using much less wood and may need a different size liner than the old smoke dragon you have.

 

[newbie 08]

Chimney was inspected and cleaned the year before we moved in (summer of 2006). The previous owners were told it looked good at that time but they never used it. I used the fireplace a little towards the end of last winter and then most nights since December this year. I am planning on having it inspected/cleaned come spring time and that is when I would likely get a new liner and/or insert if need be.

 

[webbie]

That is quite an old insert - and was a "price leader" at the time. It may do the job to some degree, but is certainly not very efficient or up to date.

The idea of a double sided fireplace being open to the garage scares me, and if true is against any and all codes dealing with such. An accident waiting to happen......maybe we misunderstand???

This stove has a 8" stack and very well may be legally installed as far as the venting....or at least it was at the time it was installed!

My suggestion is to use only on occasion and consider a new insert when possible - which will take a 6" liner (costs much less), and be more efficient. As to the part about being open to the garage....can you confirm that with a pic or description? Do you mean you drive in your garage and see the opening of a fireplace???

 

[newbie 08]

You see glass doors which open to the opening of the old original fireplace box. It was built so it could be loaded from the outside. Now that there is an insert, you see a few feet of empty space and then the back of the insert and fan/blower motor. I have put some high heat resistance insulation between the doors which open into the garage and the back of the insert to keep the heat in.

By the way does "price leader" mean el cheapo or does it mean it was good.

 

[webbie]

Yeah, sounds like a bad situation - the garage and the house should not be connected for a number of reasons, carbon monoxide poisoning among them! Ideally, this should be bricked up when you upgrade your stove.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Stove_in_Residential_Garages/

Black Bart build an automated factory in NC that they trumpeted as being the Next Big Thing. They geared up to produce stoves by the 100's of thousands, and came out with their initial model (which you have). Right about then, Reagan came into office and tore the solar panels off the white house, as well as removed the wood stoves that Carter had installed. The entire stove business dies, and Black Bart along with it.

The unit sold for $499 - a good price at the time for a blower equipped insert like that. I guess you could call it the Model T, although Fisher may better deserve that comparison.

 

[newbie 08]

Well actually its a "breezeway" and only the atv and lawnmower are parked in it. The actual garage is connected on the other side of it. What dangerous are there aside from gasses from the garage entering into the house?

 

[webbie]

I'm not a code guy - and the reasons behind codes are often not given (that is not part of the code, we can only guess)....

But I think:
1. The fumes from combustibles stored.
2. Firestopping - modern houses have fire-rated doors and walls between the garage and the house
3. Soot from the cars when they enter and leave garages - a study was done on this and this (and candles) turned out to the the major sources of black soot in houses (in cold climates).

 

[jtp10181]

Why must people made two threads about the same thing....
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/13246/

Also I would recommend a new insert, fully insulated liner and having a mason brick in the rear of that ST to seal off the garage area from the house.