Newbie Cold and Damp .. Insert ? and Recommendations Please

[tbl01]

Good Evening, Cold Damp and rainy. Wishing we had an insert.

About to purchase an insert, and had some questions regarding the sizing of a Wood Insert.

We have intentions of running this stove within reason most if not all day 24/7. I love all things about a woodfire, and oil is just out of control$$wise.

The flush style insert is better suited to our needs. Two small children, 9months and 29 months, and have personal taste towrds the flush mount style.

Particulars are late 1920's Tudor/colonial, 1350Sq. ft lots of windows. Every room has about 3 windows( less the bathrooms). Steam heat. 2 floors. Fire place is located in the living room, and stair case is directly opposite (16.5') away. Typical we keep the temp in the house around 70 durning the day, and no lower then 64 at night

We have narrowed down our choices to the Jotul c350 Wintersport, and the FPX 33 Elite Insert. Both will fit inot the fireplace with no issue. Will be doing the full SS insulated liner etc.

My primary concern is sizing of the inserts. I am leaning towards the Jotul, for a few reasons.

A. It is rated at 40k BTUs/ will heat 1300sq,ft and the $$ is about 1k south of the FPX 33 insert. The jotul Wintersport is truly a beatiful stove. However there are also no reviews and cant seem to find thru the search anyone who owns one.

My neighbor( same hse/Sq.Ft) has the Jotul c450 keenebec it heats entire house, however many times, the room it is in just too hot, cant sit in the room.

The FPX 33 Elite Insert
is a beatiful stove, but is 1k more then the jotul, and i have concerns of having to run the stove"damped"down to be able to live in the same room. Which seems to take away from the efficecny of the unit, and creating more cresote and particulates ..makes sense.

I am inclined from reading to go with the lower BTU unit, price and look of the jotul; however Idont want to undersize the unit either.

Basically trying have the best of both worlds, although I know that is not entirely possible.

Any help or direction regarding my above questions would be greatly appreciated. Scheduled cleaning and possible install date is set for 11/13.

My wife and I cant wait!!

 

[struggle]

I cannot answer your question about inserts since I use a soapstone stove but one of these is a must for you to get. For your little ones as we got one as well. And while the cost of these gates are not cheap they are far less than one trip to the emergency room as kids can be quite fasinated by fire.

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/safety/ss/childproofing_9.htm

 

[tbl01]

Yes, We have the gate all picked out.

Thank you for bringing up that point. One of the most important apects of a stove and small children

 

[webbie]

It is a fairly new model, so you will have to look at reviews on other Jotul non-cat products to get some idea......

Jotul has a pretty good reputation, and the reviews are good (mostly) on their other stuff. Then again, Travis Industries also is top-notch.

I think the deal here is that you have to size the stove by a couple factors - one being how much wood you actually have (or have access to). In other words, if you are going to burn 2 cords of wood each year (which it sounds like you will), then it would be better to do so in a smaller rather than larger firebox...all other things being equal.

And, make no mistake about it, beauty is part of the deal when something is in your living area.

I did not study the specs on the FPX model, and Jotul does not have all the specs on their site in terms of firebox length and cubic feet - BUT, if the overnight burn (jotul says 7 hours) is not a big thing, that might be a fine choice. If you intend to burn 24/7 - and therefore 3-4 cords or more, then a larger box and longer burn would be more important.

I guess what I am getting at is that the way you intend to use the thing is important. My Subaru (low line forester) is not nearly as fast or as comfortable as my wives (outback, fancier), but I rarely take it on long trips so it does not matter at all to me. I saved money (like you) on the initial purchase.

 

[elkimmeg]

Jotul tends to overstate the BTU and area of heating more than other manufactures as well as burn times. I would opt for the larger fire box. We have very
happy owners of the 450 on the forum. Mike Wilson is one and can answer you questions. There are many others who bought Regency and the dressed up Regency called Hampton

Hampton very attractive stoves

Among the other good quality lines is, Qudra-fire and Web mentioned Travis Insdustry products Lopi / Avalon

 

[tbl01]

It is a fairly new model, so you will have to look at reviews on other Jotul non-cat products to get some idea......
Jotul has a pretty good reputation, and the reviews are good (mostly) on their other stuff. Then again, Travis Industries also is top-notch.

I think the deal here is that you have to size the stove by a couple factors - one being how much wood you actually have (or have access to). In other words, if you are going to burn 2 cords of wood each year (which it sounds like you will), then it would be better to do so in a smaller rather than larger firebox...all other things being equal.

And, make no mistake about it, beauty is part of the deal when something is in your living area.
I did not study the specs on the FPX model, and Jotul does not have all the specs on their site in terms of firebox length and cubic feet - BUT, if the overnight burn (jotul says 7 hours) is not a big thing, that might be a fine choice. If you intend to burn 24/7 - and therefore 3-4 cords or more, then a larger box and longer burn would be more important.

I guess what I am getting at is that the way you intend to use the thing is important. My Subaru (low line forester) is not nearly as fast or as comfortable as my wives (outback, fancier), but I rarely take it on long trips so it does not matter at all to me. I saved money (like you) on the initial purchase.

Thank you for the quick replies.

Wood is not a problem, I have multiple free wood sources, and worst case scenario I will purchase additional what I need to burn all day thru the winter. Im guessing I will need about 4 cords maybe a little less or more depending on the weather. Unfortunately regarding "true" flush mounts their seems to only be the Travis multiple line, save stove different name, or the Jotul Wintersport.

Our initial intention is to make a serious effort to burn 24/7. The room the stove will be in is not very large 17.5' x 14' but has mutiple large openings( the opening closet to stove is 6' wide) into other rooms within the house, and the stairwell is directly across long ways from the stove.

Bedtime around here for me is midnight, and wife get up at 6am so we could live with the 7 hr burn time I would suspect closer to 5 hrs from searching on this site and other jotul reviews.

the xp 3 is rated up1200-2000 Sq.Ft 73k BTU's, 2.9cu. ft fire box max burn time is rated at 12 hours. This unit appears to kick out some serious heat. Maybe too much.

 

[Gooserider]

One thing I have noticed as a definite trend here on the Hearth is that the people complaining about having gotten to small of a stove seem to outnumber those who felt they got one that is to big by about 10-1 or more... Having observed this, my general tendency is to urge folks on the fence over the size issue is to go with the bigger box. It is always possible to build a smaller fire in a large box, you can't build a bigger fire in a small one, but may be more tempted to risk over firing a small box in attempting to make it do more than it's intended for.

Many of the people that were disappointed by their small stove relied on the manufacturer's claimed BTU outputs and especially "area heated" reccomendations - these numbers have little relation to reality! The only number that can't readily be fudged is firebox size - most cases we tend to suggest going for the biggest box you can fit in the fireplace space.

In addition, you say you want to do 24/7 burning, and again the larger box is better for this. You can crank it harder when the weather is cold w/o risking overfiring, or damp it down for lower heat output over a longer burn time. You shouldn't have to risk waking up cold cause you slept in...

Gooserider

 

[Mike Wilson]

Jotul tends to overstate the BTU and area of heating more than other manufactures as well as burn times.

Not sure what this statement is based on, but I'll move on...

I would opt for the larger fire box. We have very happy owners of the 450 on the forum. Mike Wilson is one and can answer you questions.

I would definitely get the larger firebox. I don't know how much smaller the 350 Winterport firebox is than the Kennebec, but I can say that with my Kennebec I get consistent 8 hour burns, and only need to load the stove 3 times per day when burning 24/7. If I get lazy in the morning, I can go 9 or 10 hours and still restart my fire from coals. Other than that, just the usual comments, its built very well, looks beautiful, and runs like a machine. Do make certain that you get a full liner in your chimney, it makes all the difference.

-- Mike

 

[carpniels]

Goose summed it up nicely.

I made the mistake of buying the stove that was rated for my square footage. Don't do it. They are right. Get the biggest firebox you can fit. A small fire will fit nicely. A large fire will not fit a small box. AND if you have a real cold snap, you can actually burn away and heat the entire house 24/7. Even in westchester, you can get to 0 degrees. And in a 1920s house, that is not fun. Even if it is small.

Niels.

So get the kennebec, or the 33. You pick. Or the lopi declaration.

 

[tbl01]

First let me thank you for all the responses . It has been a great help in deteriming which way to go. I spent most of Sat afternoon lookin at many types and brands. From Quadra fires, regency, jotul, lopi brand and a few non "brand" name stoves.

I am now in agreement with going larger. Everyone made some real valid points . Smaller fires, damping the unit down.

The fire box on the wintersport is so small I couldn't see how one could get a 7 hour burn time. The unit was very small. They are now making the Jotul 550 which has same look and design as the 350, only larger and more btu output. Too big for my fireplace, and is not yet at the dealers.

We decided on the FPX 33 Elite Insert Classic Arch, black finish. It has a 2.9 cubic foot air box, takes 24" logs and is rated at 1200-2000 sq.ft 73k BTU's max. Variable speed blower,Max burn time is 12hrs. If I can get 7hr consistent burn time, I would be happy.

One feature I like is the additional "draft bypass damper". This looks like it might give the user a little more tuneability of the heat output then a single damper. Will see how that works out.

6" SS liner insulated. I am taking the insulated liner stance.

I anticipate it will take about 2 cold winters to get back my initial invest dollar wise. And one cozy night in front of the new insert stove with the wife .

Were both looking forward to a nice warm house this year and hopefully using a minimal if not any oil this upcoming season!

It was cold last night 31 this morning for around her. 61 in the house. I am going to try and hold off using the heat until I get the stove installed.

Appreciate all the help and suggestions in not making the wrong choice and going with the smaller stove.

Best to all!!

Greg