Newbie installs a chimney, ready for the Hearth forum approval!

[kevinmoelk]

http://pictures.aol.com/galleries/wrenchmonster

Well here I am with some pictures, sorry they are out of order, I still have no idea why that happens.

Allow me to detail a little further on how I installed the chimney. The first step was to establish the location of the stove on the hearth. I then placed the interior double wall on top of the stove (making sure it was plumb), extended the pipe to the ceiling, and traced the outside. I found the center of the circle and drilled a small hole through the ceiling. I crawled up into the attic and found the hole in the ceiling, then used a plumb bob to mark the roof and drilled a small hole in the roof. Back down into the living room I cut a hole in the ceiling allowing a 3" clearance to combustibles. The class A chimney extended down into the living room roughly 9 1/2 inches, this was done to maintain combustible clearance of the interior double wall pipe. The whole chimney weight is supported from the roof. After the hole in the ceiling was cut I moved up into the attic again and cut out the hole in the roof. The roof hole is oval, having clearance of roughly 2 1/2" on the side with the brackets, and roughly 3" on the sides without the bracket. Now I had a hole in the ceiling and roof. I established the interior double wall pipe length and screwed it off. Then I placed the chimney sections on top of the interior pipe which allowed me to locate and install the roof brackets. I wasn't sure the 3 little screws in the interior pipe would hold the weight of the chimney (even temporarily) but they did. Now that I had the roof bracket installed I assembled the chimney and installed the locking bands between the sections. Then I plumbed the chimney from the outside and screwed the roof brackets down. Installed flashing, storm collar, and cap, and patched in to the roof.

I moved back inside up in the attic and checked my clearances against the roof and at the ceiling again. I then started building the attic insulation guard. For this I simply framed up from the ceiling joists and tied into the rafters above forming a box around the chimney. I cut some wonderboard and screwed it to the little frame, making sure to alternate sides so the enclosure towards the chimney would only be wonderboard. In other words, the frame sits on the outside, wonderboard on the inside. I applied some aluminum furnace tape along the seams for good measure, not needed necessarily, but just to keep the dust out of the insulation guard. Also, I have some blown in insulation under the bats, and didn't want any of that creeping in. You'll notice that 2 sides of the wonderboard are taller than the opposing two, that's because the edge sits on top of the ceiling joists, so they are 6" taller than the other sides. I could have cut it down, but decided against it.

I've also included a few pictures of the poker and rake I made. Quick and dirty, but effective. Another photo of the hearth, with my new ash can, and log holder. The log holder is a steel army cargo box (not sure what era) and works perfectly to hold logs. Had it lying in the garage for years... I knew I would use it for something eventually.

That's about it, sorry for the long post. If anyone has any questions or comments please let me know. I want to make sure this is all safe.

-Kevin

 

[Hogwildz]

Looks sweet to me. Did you re shingle in the base flashing on the roof? Please don't tell me you mucked it in after all that nice inside work?
I think I know better, but have to ask. Its the roofer in me sorry.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

nice work wrench , looks shipshape to my eyes. stove looks like as real honey, i'd heard that country makes a nice line , looks like they do, hearth looks pretty tight too. its nice to sit back when its all done and smile and think " dang thats pretty" aint it?

 

[kevinmoelk]

Looks sweet to me. Did you re shingle in the base flashing on the roof? Please don't tell me you mucked it in after all that nice inside work?
I think I know better, but have to ask. Its the roofer in me sorry.

Well, I hate to admit it HW, but it's not correct. I need a new roof in a bad way and plan to tackle the half of the roof the chimney is on next year. So... it is all sealed up, but I'll have to yank it up and re-do it when the new roof goes on. Notice I didn't include a picture, lol. I'm embarassed to show it, really, it's bad. Sorry to let you down, I get the same way when people screw up siding. It would have been tough to tie in properly anyway seeing as it is so cold and also that the shingles are so brittle I can barely touch them and they crack.

When I built the mudroom this summer I tried for an hour using a large putty knife trying to pull the shinges up, and got nothing but broken shingles... and it was around 90 degrees outside. I finally overlapped and put that black roof cement stuff along the seam. I HATE roofing, probably my least favorite thing to do.

Thanks Stoveguy for the kind words. I've probably spent too much time on the whole project, but I'm fairly happy with the results being my first time doing it.

-Kevin

 

[Hogwildz]

Looks sweet to me. Did you re shingle in the base flashing on the roof? Please don't tell me you mucked it in after all that nice inside work?
I think I know better, but have to ask. Its the roofer in me sorry.

Well, I hate to admit it HW, but it's not correct. I need a new roof in a bad way and plan to tackle the half of the roof the chimney is on next year. So... it is all sealed up, but I'll have to yank it up and re-do it when the new roof goes on. Notice I didn't include a picture, lol. I'm embarassed to show it, really, it's bad. Sorry to let you down, I get the same way when people screw up siding. It would have been tough to tie in properly anyway seeing as it is so cold and also that the shingles are so brittle I can barely touch them and they crack.

When I built the mudroom this summer I tried for an hour using a large putty knife trying to pull the shinges up, and got nothing but broken shingles... and it was around 90 degrees outside. I finally overlapped and put that black roof cement stuff along the seam. I HATE roofing, probably my least favorite thing to do.

Thanks Stoveguy for the kind words. I've probably spent too much time on the whole project, but I'm fairly happy with the results being my first time doing it.

-Kevin

lmfao, Completely understandable. If the shigles are that old & brittle, no matter how gingerly your try, your going to end up with a handful & pile of crumbled shingles. And still need to use roof cemet (muck) anyways. So you did the right thing. Hope you used mesh (fabric) at least LOL. Without it the hot/ cold transitions over the weather will crack it quickly. I'm sure you already know these things. Don't be embarrassed man, you did it exactly as it should be done given the circumstances. In that case be perpared for a mess when you redo the roof. That base flashing may be trash trying to get it up and clean it off. Maybe not though. I usually tossed them and installed a new one. If its galvanized they are cheap enough. Roofing is not the best poject or job in the world. I dunno how I ended up doing it for so long, but its one thing I got real good at, and made good money doing. But as many other construction tradesman aslo know.... In time, you are continually paying the price for that kind of job. AKA aches, pains, & having a crappy falling apart body. In the end, not sure it was worth it. But its done now. Still had many fun times.

Anyways sorry off topic. Looks great man, and the roof side will look great when the new roof is done. Besides, the parts you can see look awesome. Can't see a roof so well so it doesn't matter As long as its tight, thats all that matters.

 

[DriftWood]

The top of the attic guard should be covered to keep the odd loose stuff out. Just a chicken wire cover would work. But a cone shaped cover vented at the bottom of the cover is best. It will deflect all stuff away from the opening.

 

[kevinmoelk]

The top of the attic guard should be covered to keep the odd loose stuff out. Just a chicken wire cover would work. But a cone shaped cover vented at the bottom of the cover is best. It will deflect all stuff away from the opening.

Good idea. Seeing at the short sides are 2'6" tall, I'm not sure how much stuff is going to fall in there, but why not have the extra insurance. Would some 1/2 hardware cloth be okay for this application? Since the frame of the guard goes from the ceiling to the roof, I don't think it would be possible (well possible, but not easy) to go from the chimney to the outside of the box with a diverter type shield. Metalbestos sells both an attic insulation guard with the cover you describe and one that is completely open at the top, not sure where one would be applicable and the other not. Hummm.

Hogwildz, wish you lived closer man, we could trade off weekends when we needed an extra set of hands for a project. Could use your help roofing for instance!

Yes, absolutely the trades are tough on your body. Years of construction and more years of wrenching have left my back just wrecked. I have permanent back pain, caused by a bad disc. I can stretch and take some advil and be fine for the most part, but at times it's tough for me to even put my socks on in the morning.

-Kevin

 

[begreen]

You've done well Kevin. How is the stove working out for you? Heating well and as hoped for?

 

[Hogwildz]

The top of the attic guard should be covered to keep the odd loose stuff out. Just a chicken wire cover would work. But a cone shaped cover vented at the bottom of the cover is best. It will deflect all stuff away from the opening.

Good idea. Seeing at the short sides are 2'6" tall, I'm not sure how much stuff is going to fall in there, but why not have the extra insurance. Would some 1/2 hardware cloth be okay for this application? Since the frame of the guard goes from the ceiling to the roof, I don't think it would be possible (well possible, but not easy) to go from the chimney to the outside of the box with a diverter type shield. Metalbestos sells both an attic insulation guard with the cover you describe and one that is completely open at the top, not sure where one would be applicable and the other not. Hummm.

Hogwildz, wish you lived closer man, we could trade off weekends when we needed an extra set of hands for a project. Could use your help roofing for instance!

Yes, absolutely the trades are tough on your body. Years of construction and more years of wrenching have left my back just wrecked. I have permanent back pain, caused by a bad disc. I can stretch and take some advil and be fine for the most part, but at times it's tough for me to even put my socks on in the morning.

-Kevin

I know that feeling. I have a supply of pain killers for the really bad days. 3 herniated discs, but blah the war story. We all got our aches.
In a sick twisted way, I still love roofing. I exceled my best as a tin knocker though. Copper was my favorite. Last co. I worked for had an old timer named Russ.
He had me using the old home made hot pots with charcol to heat with LOL & old time soldering irons LOL. Even hand formed standing seem tin roofs. All by hand & old fashioned kickers.
I really miss that stuff. I soldered my name & the year in each metal job I did. God I miss that working metal with my hands.
Whats the pitch of yer roof? You know they make a "lifetime" shigle now that costs not much more then the 40 yr shingles. I do not know the specifics of the warranty. I am sure its pro rated somehow.
If I was near I'd be there helping you. Still do for family & friends here. I can never seem to fully retire from roofing.

 

[kevinmoelk]

BG, thank you Sir. I couldn't have done it as easily as I did without the help of yourself and others here. It would have involved much more head scratching.

The woodstove is definately a lifestyle, there's a lot to heating with wood. But I like to tinker, and I believe others who like to tinker choose woodstoves over pellets or NG. So far the little stove has done well. I think I lucked out on the size. A larger stove wouldn't be well suited for the space I heat. I'm still experimenting with how to burn the wood, when to increase or decrease air flow, how to stack the logs, etc. There's definately a learning curve involved. The heat is very nice. The living room, where the stove is located, stays a little warmer than the rest of the home, but that's okay by me. It still heats the whole home for the most part. One thing I truly like about it is that the furnace doesn't kick on nearly as much, maybe once in the morning when I haven't gotten up to reload. On the same note, my home is much quieter without the furnace coming on, I never noticed how loud the furnace was!

HW, my pitch is 4/12. Haven't done too much research on the shingles. Wish I could afford to put up metal, that would be sweet. Maybe I'll splurge, but the PO roofed the garage with architectural and so I'll probably try to match that to give the property the overall matched look. Would like to see your copper work, you should post some pictures. I have some of those antique soldering irons, torches, cauldrons, etc for roofing... been collecting antiques for years. Just wall ornaments for me though.

-Kevin

 

[seaken]

Looks good. I thought the pictures in the attic were an "in progress" shot. I would recommend that you finish the box all the way up to the roof. Also, I can't tell how the firestops are installed. The sheild you mentioned without the collar is called a firestop joist shield and it is intended to be used to sheild the joists below the firestop when the chimney is in a chase. I think you have your ceiling below that so you would not use that part. The proper part would be an FSP (Finish Support Package) and then an AIS (Attic Insulation Shield) on top of the joists. Your chase then gets built around that.

Overall it looks pretty good. Our local codes will not allow the chimney to be exposed. But your local AHJ will be able to tell you better.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Nice looking installation there, wrench. The pad and the stove look really, really nice.

 

[kevinmoelk]

Looks good. I thought the pictures in the attic were an "in progress" shot. I would recommend that you finish the box all the way up to the roof. Also, I can't tell how the firestops are installed. The sheild you mentioned without the collar is called a firestop joist shield and it is intended to be used to sheild the joists below the firestop when the chimney is in a chase. I think you have your ceiling below that so you would not use that part. The proper part would be an FSP (Finish Support Package) and then an AIS (Attic Insulation Shield) on top of the joists. Your chase then gets built around that.

Overall it looks pretty good. Our local codes will not allow the chimney to be exposed. But your local AHJ will be able to tell you better.

Lol, no not in progress, but completed. Just out of curiosity, what would be the advantage of finishing the box to the roof? Easily enough done, but it seems to me that by doing so would really cut down on the available air circulation around the chimney.

Firestops? There are none. The class A chimney actually enters into the living room by 9 1/2 inches. Clearance around the ceiling is maintained at 3" or greater. I'm confused as to why I would need to protect my joists which are further away than the drywall cutout. Or maybe this is going back to the whole ceiling support/ais argument. I was/am trying to save as much money as I can by using the parts that came with the used set up I purchased, not that I'm too cheap to be safe, but I'm just a frugal person by nature.

The last sentence (1st paragraph) you write that I should have a ceiling support, an AIS, AND THEN build a chase? That seems like severe overkill to me. Actually, that's illogical to me if the goal would be maximizing air circulation... you've just encased the whole chimney. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just blabbing my thoughts here.

EricJohnson, thanks for the kind words. It was a lot of work, but I'm happy now that it's up and running.

ELK Where are you Sir?

-Kevin

 

[MrGriz]

Looks great to me Wrench! I'm sure you are happy that the stove is up and running.

I really like the way you trimmed the hearth pad, gives it a very nice finished look.

 

[elkimmeg]

I'm a little puzled, I have never seen code that requires a 2" to combustiable class A chimney to be enclosed inan attic clawl space?.
If someone can point me to that code I would appreciate it. Like I have said, this forum is also part of my learning process.
I know of the insulation shield requirements. From the pictures and measurements looks like it would pass my inspection .
BTW before the inspector gets there remove the wood sitting on the hearth pad to at least 3' away.

Score another sucessfull instalation guided by correct info posted by hearth members

Looking good

 

[kevinmoelk]

Thank you MrGriz. Thank you Elk. Glad to have you take a look.

In fact, thank you everyone for the education and continuting education. There are many of you I need to thank, but no possilbe way I can remember every detail of who gave me what suggestion. A very special thanks to Elk, who has taken time out of his busy schedule on more than one occasion to personally talk to me either via PM or phone and make certain that I got the install correct. Elk I have inventory of those extra parts now if you would like them for the donor program, just let me know and I'll mail them out to you. Sent you a PM earlier (last week?) but didn't hear back from you. I will indeed move the wood box. It stays fairly cool actually, the one corner nearest the stove gets warm, but the heat is quickly transferred to the rest of the box... it never gets too hot to touch.

There's a few more things I need to button up before inspection. I'm 2 1/4 inches too short on my chimney above from the masonry chimney seen in the photo. So I need to order another chimney section, or knock out the last flue tile on the masonry chimney, lol. I'm thinking about getting an 18" section to boost the overall chimney length a little since it's only 9ft tall. Maybe I should go with another 3 ft section? That would make it fairly difficult to clean however.

Also, I need to finish up the OAK intake at the siding just to clean it up a little and provide the inspector with a very clean and finished product. I don't want to give him any reason not to pass me.

-Kevin

 

[Roospike]

Thought i would finally get back to checking into this thread with a post.

Looks good wrenchmonster , think-n its an awesome job brotherman.

So.......................a...............how many chairs did you say you can get around your stove? and the fridge is how far away? Everybody bring a drink and a log and we'll have a "woodstock" style break-in fire. WooooooooooHoooooooooooo

 

[kevinmoelk]

Thanks Spike. You're daddy's shoes were never under my momma's bed, so don't call me brother! LOL

You guys are welcome any time. Got 2 extra bedrooms, 2 big couches, and as much floor as anyone needs. Gotta like dogs though, as I have 4 of those. Fully stocked liquor cabinet, multiple bottles of wine, all for guests (I don't drink, but keep alcohol around), lots of food, and 2 refrigerators we can load full of beer. Road trip anyone? I'll even fire up the grill and cook some steaks, german sausage, and chicken breasts.

-Kevin

 

[seaken]

I see now. I didn't get exactly how it was installed. You don't need the joist shield and your ceiling trim acts as your firestop.

The reason to completely chase in the chimney is to protect it from accidentally encroaching on the air clearance. If an attic is an accessible space (can be used for storage, etc. ) then the chimney cannot remain exposed. There is no problem with choking air circulation. The chase will circulate enough air and the 2" air space code is not based on open air anyway. The chase is the mechanism used to protect that air space after the initial install is complete. Technically, if you never allow anything to fall in to your half-height chase you do not need it. But how will you control that is you are not around (sell the house, etc.)

Elk, honestly, I'm not sure where the code is. It may be in NFPA 211 or in the chimney manufacturers instructions. Or, it may simply have become common practice in our community. Whatever the case, we think it's a good idea and we always chase in any exposed chimneys in an attic or crawl space.

 

[elkimmeg]

Seaken I worded my response to be less than confrontational so I would learn. Now a walk up attic is a bit different, where there is actual storage space one can walk around and stand up.
The danger of one touching it or stacking combustiables too close is an issue. I'm not saying there is not merit to encasing the class A vent pipe, but at times I cannot require what is not written. your suggestion make sense to me. There are alot of things I see that I would never do but comply to code I pass. I would never have a ceiling return in an heat only system.
If in a hVAC system I would have that ceiling return dampered so the the lower location returns remove the cool air On the AC side I would open ceiling returns and close lower ones

Unfortunately high low returns are not employed in most HVAC systems Code restricts me to supply = returns but not location

 

[seaken]

Seaken I worded my response to be less than confrontational so I would learn. Now a walk up attic is a bit different, where there is actual storage space one can walk around and stand up.
The danger of one touching it or stacking combustiables too close is an issue. I'm not saying there is not merit to encasing the class A vent pipe, but at times I cannot require what is not written. your suggestion make sense to me. There are alot of things I see that I would never do but comply to code I pass. I would never have a ceiling return in an heat only system.
If in a hVAC system I would have that ceiling return dampered so the the lower location returns remove the cool air On the AC side I would open ceiling returns and close lower ones

Unfortunately high low returns are not employed in most HVAC systems Code restricts me to supply = returns but not location

Yep, I understand. I may be wrong about it being an actual code. I'll have to check. Seems to me we adopted it from a written document.

Take care,
Sean

 

[kevinmoelk]

Seaken and Elk, so I pose this question: How would you (personally) finish off the attic insulation guard?

I think I already know where Seaken stands in terms of building the whole chase. That's easily enough done, only a couple more feet and I'm at the top of the roof. I wonder however, even though air flow is not a problem as you indicated, wouldn't it be wise to have some place for easy inspection? A screen so that you could look inside and take a visual.

Elk, though passing code perhaps, I'd appreciate providing me with your personal experience, sans inspectors coat. Would you complete the chase, or just screen in the top with some 1/2 hardware cloth and call it done?

Thank you both in advance.

-Kevin

EDIT: By the way, the attic is not living (obviously) or storage space for me.

 

[seaken]

Seaken and Elk, so I pose this question: How would you (personally) finish off the attic insulation guard?

I think I already know where Seaken stands in terms of building the whole chase. That's easily enough done, only a couple more feet and I'm at the top of the roof. I wonder however, even though air flow is not a problem as you indicated, wouldn't it be wise to have some place for easy inspection? A screen so that you could look inside and take a visual.

Elk, though passing code perhaps, I'd appreciate providing me with your personal experience, sans inspectors coat. Would you complete the chase, or just screen in the top with some 1/2 hardware cloth and call it done?

Thank you both in advance.

-Kevin

EDIT: By the way, the attic is not living (obviously) or storage space for me.

Kevin,

Yes, an access panel is a good idea. We usually just use a sheetrock panel. By removing the screws the chimney chase can be inspected. But some situations require more formal "door" access. A rigid wire mesh may be an acceptable alternative.