NEWBIE NEEDS HELP-WOOD BURNING INSERT

[piejam]

HELLO LADIES AND GENTLEMAN. PLEASE EXCUSE MY AWKWARDNESS. I AM NOT COMPUTER SAVVY AND NEVER BEEN IN A CHAT ROOM BEFORE.NEED SOME ADVISE ON PURCHASING A NEW WOOD BURNING INSERT FOR MY MASONRY FIREPLACE. MY HOME IS APPROX. 2900 SQ FT. 2STORY SOFT CONTEMPORARY OPEN FLOOR PLAN. HOUSE HAS VAULTED AND CATHEDRAL CEILINGS. I HAVE A VC WINTER WARM LARGE AND BEEN USING IT FOR THE LAST 18 YRS. THE IRON MAIDEN HAS SERVED ME WELL. BUT NOW SHE HAS 2 BROKEN FANS AND A WARPED FLOOR(OVER FIRING?). JUST THIS PAST WEEK THE CAST PLATES ON THE REAR FELL OFF EXPOSING WHAT I THINK IS THE CAT CONVERTER.

BEEN LURKING AROUND THIS WEBSITE. TRYING TO RESEARCH WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST FIT TO REPLACE MY BELOVED IRON MAIDEN. CURRENTLY LOOKING AT PE SUMMIT OR AVALON OLYMPIC. I LIKE THE LARGER FIREBOXES.

IS A EAST/WEST LOAD SAFER FOR ME TO HANDLE AS OPPOSED TO A NORTH/SOUTH? NEED SOMETHING THAT IS USER FRIENDLY FOR A NOVICE. DOES EITHER ONE OF THESE MODELS HAVE OVER-FIRE PROTECTION? I PURCHASED A MAGNETIC THERMOMETER.


I FEEL LIKE A SHIP AT SEA WITH NO COMPASS-THANK YOU SO MUCH.

 

[Pagey]

Probably the first place to start would be to get us some measurements of the fireplace. The size of the opening will be one limiting factor, then any CTC (clearance to combustibles) issues such as a mantel or lintel will be the next limiting factor as far as choice of insert goes. Another thing to consider is having a certified chimney sweep inspect the current condition of the chimney and flue. You'll want to make sure the flue is the proper size for the insert and that the flue tiles are in good shape and that there is not excessive creosote deposited in the flue. Many masonry flues require a stainless steel liner with insulation to bring them up to code and/or solve issues with the flue being too large for proper draft for the insert.

Welcome to the forums! Stick around and I'm sure these folks will have you pointed in the right direction in no time.

 

[begreen]

Welcome piejam, I love that handle! I'm sorry for you loss. This has been a tough year for many people. Let us know how we can help.

There are several inserts that might work out for you. But the first thing will be to determine if they fit. Many of us prefer an N/S loader. The deeper firebox gives one more options for loading. And when north/south loaded there is no need for andirons to stop the logs from accidentally rolling up against the glass. Still, some of the really long splits may need to be recut or burned diagonally in order to fit them.

Feel free to ask as many questions as you need to. In the meantime, visit multiple stove stores to get a better perspective on your options. Once the dealer comes by, have them give you the dimensions - length, width (front and back) and height of the fireplace firebox.

PS: You are doing a great job of explaining your needs. If I could make one suggestion, turn off the caps lock so that the text is more readable. All CAPS is a bit like shouting on the internet.

 

[piejam]

Thank you Pagey for the quick response. Can't provide the fireplace opening since there is a surround kit on the Winter Warm Large. I figured that if you knew the model currently installed then someone would have an idea what I can use. The fireplace is approx 7ft in width. Floor to ceiling fieldstone with an 18 inch hearth floor level. I suspect that I might have to extend that. I do have a flat screen tv and video components about 20 inches away from the heat source. I either have to get some sort of screen or move them(which would be hard to do due to lack of wall space). The tv is new and the old setup had an oak cabinet so no past problems. No mantels etc..New setup is open so I'm worried.

The dealer who is to perform a site inspection/evaluation on 9/21 is the original installer of the vc. So he is a sweep. I meet him when he first started years ago. Oddly enough I found a new fireplace shop in my own backyard. On 9/17 I paid a visit. Said the pe summit should fit. price quote was $2066.00 for the unit, 1/2 off install if i sign by 9/30 $250.00, liner kit $699.00 and gold door another &650;.00(pricey?). I"m skeptical about the liner. I want to know if this is a ss full liner...Won't sign a contract until a site evaluation is performed first so I can think. One concern I have is if the new shop goes out of business will another dealer honor my warranty?

Hope providing price quotes is not inappropriate on this forum. Please correct me if it is. I intend to get at least three bids. Am I going about this in the right manner? Hope so. Sorry for the slow response to your post. I'm new at this!! I'll try and update. Thanks again.

 

[piejam]

Dear Moderator- I realized this when Pagey responded. So you gave me a good chuckle. Should have known better since I was lurking around for a while. Thank you for your condolences. Looking forward towards future conversations. Talk to you soon....

 

[fossil]

...I FEEL LIKE A SHIP AT SEA WITH NO COMPASS...

I know. Exactly. My wife died this past November. Do you have family close, or access to grief support services? We folks here on these forums will do everything we can to get you pointed in a good direction with wood heating that will meet your needs. We can at least help you navigate that detail of your life. Welcome. Rick

 

[piejam]

Thanks Fossil..Actually no family(or kids)..I have some very good friends though. Looking forward to making new ones! So grateful to everyone here for their knowledge and expertise. Being without my insert is unthinkable! Can't wait to strike a match again..I'm trying to figure out what type of stove is better..Cast iron or steel..But it's also the construction of the box..ie with cast iron is it a single poured form? Is steel better because its welded? Then what kind of steel is being used and how thick? I'm driving myself crazy..

Was also looking at the Lopi Declaration and Hearthstone Clydesdale. I like the idea of cast iron and soapstone. Is a soapstone lined firebox better than bricks I have to replace?..Can't really decide much until wednesday after my on site evaluation. Since my VC is in the wall, don't know if i can get the rear measurements of the opening...hmmm. The Declaration/Clydesdale I think have lower btu's and sq ft ranges..From reading your website I discovered that the size of the firebox is more important..That's why I'm looking at the Summit/Olympic...

Your kindness and concerns are greatly appreciated...So sorry about your loss as well..regards....Diane

 

[Dix]

Good evening, Diane, and welcome to the forums


You're gonna be fine, girl friend. Welcome to Da Sistahood, as well !!


It gets chilly out on the East end, especially December to March, and with that square footage, I'm wondering if a free standing stove might not be your best option? Just a thought.


If you are more comfortable with an insert, than the bigger the better, as long as the shoe will fit. You can always close the doors on some rooms upstairs. How's your ceiling fan/air flow situation?


Start getting more wood now, with which ever route you take, to insure you have enough wood for next year, and then the year after that, you get the drift


Condolences from my daughter & I on your loss.


And, again, welcome to the forums !

 

[Dix]

Thank you Pagey for the quick response. Can't provide the fireplace opening since there is a surround kit on the Winter Warm Large. I figured that if you knew the model currently installed then someone would have an idea what I can use. The fireplace is approx 7ft in width. Floor to ceiling fieldstone with an 18 inch hearth floor level. I suspect that I might have to extend that. I do have a flat screen tv and video components about 20 inches away from the heat source. I either have to get some sort of screen or move them(which would be hard to do due to lack of wall space). The tv is new and the old setup has an oak cabinet so no past problems. No mantels ect...New setup is open so I'm worried.

The dealer who is to perform a site inspection/evaluation on 9/21 is the original installer of the vc. So he is a sweep. I meet him when he first started ago years ago. Oddly enough I found a new fireplace shop in my own backyard. On 9/17 I paid a visit. Said the pe summit should fit. price quote was $2066.00 for the unit, 1/2 off install if i sign by 9/30 $250.00, liner kit $699.00 and gold door another &650;.00(pricey?). I"m skeptical about the liner. I want to know if this is a ss full liner...Won't sign a contract until a site evaluation is performed first so I can think. One concern I have is if the new shop goes out of business will another dealer honor my warranty?

Hope providing price quotes is not inappropriate on this forum. Please correct me if it is. I intend to get at least three bids. Am I going about this in the right manner? Hope so. Sorry for the slow response to your post. I'm new at this!! I'll try and update. Thanks again.

The plain black door works just as well, and saves you some $$$'s. That's what I did, they asked, and I said "it's here to work", but that's me ;-P


Price quotes are fine.


Diane, can you get some pictures up, so we can take a look?

 

[piejam]

To Doing the Dixie Eyed Hustle-This is great I already feel like part of something special. Thanks for all the great suggestions. I have been thinking about getting next years hardwood delivered. Hope its not too late. I was surprised to read some members want theirs seasoned for a few years. I'll try and work on the photo's. DH was the computer guru in the house. I have 2 left feet in that department.

Here's to telling lipa/nat grid where to go! Can't wait until I'm feeling the heat and watching blue flame. I'm touched and feel most welcome-thanks...I have one ceiling fan in the kitchen to circulate the warm air..I just might disco a high hat in the living room where i have cathedral ceilings and install another fan. Going thru a kitchen remodel right now and things are very hectic..But if I want a new install on the insert I have to do this now. Getting a black only door has crossed by mind. I'm not a fancy girl so function/logic may be the route I take. I did think about a free standing stove but not sure how that would affect a resale..

Please tell your daughter I said thank you.

PS-Dh was pretty sharp. my master bedroom is above the family rm w/the fireplace. He had a register with a booster fan installed so we could suck the heat up into the bedroom.

 

[tickbitty]

This is just seriously the nicest group of people around. Hello Piejam!
I don't think anyone answered your question regarding overfire so even though I can't answer it I thought I would restate it for the experts - does any type of stove tend less toward overfiring? I thought I heard that Cat stoves regulate the heat better?
I don't have a cat stove but I thought that I had read that here.

 

[begreen]

Is the current Winterwarm stove connected to a liner? If yes, and the liner is rigid, it could be good for many more years of service.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Is the current Winterwarm stove connected to a liner? If yes, and the liner is rigid, it could be good for many more years of service.

If it is, the Winterwarm models required an 8" liner if I remember correctly.

 

[piejam]

tickbitty-Thanks for bringing that up again. My VC winter warm was a cat stove so i am curious. Not sure if the warped floor of my old stove was from that or the fact we've been running it all these years..Being a novice it is a concern. These stoves and inserts today are very serious appliances. I intend on reading owners manuals and the fire starting procedures here as well once which model can be utilized. Don't want to make a mistake in seasoning the new unit.

To answer the Moderators question i believe the winter warm is hooked-up to a liner..I'll verify that on wednesday..If it is an 8 inch do i need to retrofit for a 6? That maybe depending which model i replace it with. I know I don't really want a other VC despite how great the appliance was. Did not like how the old customers warranty issues were handled for people who had issues for a prior 2008 purchase! Customer service is on the priority list as well..

 

[BrowningBAR]

tickbitty-Thanks for bringing that up again. My VC winter warm was a cat stove so i am curious. Not sure if the warped floor of my old stove was from that or the fact we've been running it all these years..Being a novice it is a concern. These stoves and inserts today are very serious appliances. I intend on reading owners manuals and the fire starting procedures here as well once which model can be utilized. Don't want to make a mistake in seasoning the new unit.

Any stove can be over fired. With basic precautions and a good thermometer you should be fine.

Do you work or are you home most of the day?

I think the summit has a larger firebox than the Olympic. I know the Olympic has a 3.1 cu ft firebox. I would go with the larger firebox since your home is 2,900 sq ft.

 

[piejam]

Hello BrowningBar- Home most of the time since I am retired..Are you the guy that dragged home an Avalon Insert? Cool..I was happy to see one up close since it was on my list. I hope the dimensions of my fireplace will support a unit of that size. I would still like to know if anyone can tell me if a soapstone lined firebox is superior to a brick lined one and how often they must be replaced..I realize that it depend on how people insert their logs, if they are heavy handed, and how often/long they fire up.

Gosh you guys are a bunch of nite stalkers! I assume alot of you have jobs in addition to your hearth room surfing. I hope to benefit from your experiences and expertise. Thank you all for the inputs!

 

[begreen]

Yes, the Winterwarm would want an 8" liner. That should still work for the Summit if the liner is in good condition and the chimney is not short.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Hello BrowningBar- Home most of the time since I am retired..Are you the guy that dragged home an Avalon Insert? Cool..I was happy to see one up close since it was on my list. I hope the dimensions of my fireplace will support a unit of that size. I would still like to know if anyone can tell me if a soapstone lined firebox is superior to a brick lined one and how often they must be replaced..I realize that it depend on how people insert their logs and if they are heavy handed...

Gosh you guys are a bunch of nite stalkers! I assume alot of you have jobs in addition to you hearth room surfing. I hope to benefit from your experiences and expertise. Thank you all for the inputs!

Nope, I was not the one who was lucky enough to find a good deal on the Avalon insert.

Inregards to the soapstone lined firebox, I don't think you will notice much of a difference between the two.

The internal dimensions of all three inserts (what actually sits inside the fireplace):
Winterwarm Large: 18.5" deep, 23.75" high, 25.5" wide

Summit: 17.75" deep, 23.125" high, 34.625" wide

Avalon Olympic: About 18" deep (drawing is unclear), 21.25" high, 29.375" wide

The only thing that seems to be in doubt is the width as both of the new inserts are wider than the Winterwarm Large. That being said, I have a pretty small fireplace that currently has a VC Encore squeezed into it and it is wide enough to handle the summit. I feel pretty confident that if your fireplace can hold the Winterwarm Large, it should be able to fit either of the two inserts.

 

[piejam]

BrowningBar-Thank you for your last input. The stats on the 2units on my list are very encouraging. If i get a green lite on either of those the only thing left to figure is whether I want an e/w or n/s load. My winter warm was e/w but had a grating to help prevent stuff from rolling forward. I just installed triple pane krypton filled high performance windows. House should be pretty tight now. Guess the experts will advise which unit is suitable for my needs..

I have a ng forced warm air heating system. I can run the fans to help circulate the heat from the fireplace..Have a good nite all!

 

[firefighterjake]

Not much to add here except to say welcome Piejam . . . and hang in there . . . I have not gone through what you and Fossil have gone through, but I cannot imagine what it would be like to lose one's best friend and soul mate . . . just wanted to say basically that you may be new here, but I think I can safely say more than a few of us will be pulling for you and thinking of you . . . and more than a few of us will work to help you out heating wise.

 

[piejam]

Thanks FirefighterJake-Everyone here is so warm, friendly, knowledgeable, and gracious. Condolences are greatly appreciated. Can't wait until my on site evaluation on 9/21. I will update the thread with the results...Just makes one feel so good that there are so many caring people left in the world.

 

[firefighterjake]

Thanks FirefighterJake-Everyone here is so warm, friendly, knowledgeable, and gracious. Condolences are greatly appreciated. Can't wait until my on site evaluation on 9/21. I will update the thread with the results...Just makes one feel so good that there are so many caring people left in the world.

You're in good company here . . . the folks here at hearth.com truly are unlike any of the many on line sites I frequent . . . we come from all different areas of the country and all different socio-economic backgrounds . . . bound together only by the common factor that we all came here to learn more about how to safely and efficiently keep our homes warm . . . and yet somehow, something about this group binds us together tighter than the fact that we burn wood to heat our homes . . . this place is more than a website, it's a network of caring folks who really, honestly like each other and share our member's -- our brothers and sisters' -- triumphs and tragedies . . . even though many of us will never see each other in person.

Oh by the way, there are some cantankerous old Michiganites who insist on splitting wood vertically vs. horizontally as God intended . . . but other than that one character flaw he . . . I mean they . . . don't want to single any folks out, right Dennis . . . are good people.

 

[fossil]

...This is great I already feel like part of something special...

You are, Diane. Rick

 

[piejam]

Hi Rick-I just found a nice bunch of short video's on: www.rural-energy.net/videos

How to burn with epa cat/non cat stoves
Safety & Maintenance info wood stoves/inserts
Troubleshooting guide for wood stoves/inserts

They even had a clip on drafting and negative pressure..Not that anyone here needs it, but I was thinking when to speak to lost souls like me!
Saw an Osburn 2400 insert..That's one big baby....

 

[fossil]

Hi Rick-I just found a nice bunch of short video's on: www.rural-energy.net/videos

Those look like some real good videos, Diane...based on a quick sampling. They are put out buy a commercial outfit, though, so one always has to be on the lookout for skewed or misleading info. I didn't see any, but I haven't watched all the vids right through yet. Thanks for posting this link here. Rick