Newbie Question

[lawandorder]

Sorry if this has already been answered but I was wondering how much of a difference there is in new wood stoves. I currently have a Morso stove that was my fathers and is probably at least 20 years old. I dont think I am getting the heat output that I might get if i pony up for a new stove. I love the Morso design's as we have a modern house. Our stove is currently in our living room which has 26' ceiling and is rather large with a lot of glass. The room is difficult to only heat with wood especially if the temps really fall. My question is that will the convection/new technology of new wood stoves make a difference in what i need to do?. The stove is in great shape but is old. A new stove will cost a bit of money but will it be worth it by more heat output and possibly less wood consumption. Thanks for the info. and help

 

[swestall]

There is a tremendous difference in the new stoves versus pre-EPA stoves. They put out more heat for less wood, leave your chimney cleaner and emit less.
The new Morso stoves are very nice and would do. But, take a look at the field. Look at the PE stoves as they look nice in a contemporary environment. Also, soapstone.

Keep away from downdraft stoves with refractory secondary burners as they are not perfected.

 

[begreen]

Which Morso stove do you currently have? The Danish make pretty efficient stoves. But it sounds like you may need a bigger stove by the description of the room and house. If you go to a bigger stove it's likely that wood consumption will not go down, but your warmth may increase nicely.

 

[lawandorder]

Its a morso 1125?? I believe. Not sure how old it is and I have noticed that this year it has started making a lot of cracking noises from the stove itself and that a few of the bricks on the side are broken. IT has been hard turn burn and get heat out of the last month or so in particular so I am not sure what is going on. Thanks for the replys this is a great resource especially for me as I am trying to learn as much as possible

 

[SlyFerret]

Keep your eyes out for deals on newer stoves and be ready to move when you find one.

I installed an Englander 30NC this winter. Normal retail on them is around $1100 at Home Depot.

I found mine on Craigslist.com for $550. Brand new, still on the pallet, still wrapped in plastic.

My entire install, including building materials for my hearth pad and the chimney, ended up costing quite a bit less than $1500.

It will pay for itself next year.

-SF

 

[begreen]

The 1125 was an interesting stove and a decent heater from what I've read. For the current stove, examine the back plate and baffle carefully. Look for cracks and/or warping. Given the age, they are probably due for replacement. If the baffle isn't fitting snugly the burn pattern will be poor. FWIW, finding some replacement parts will be a challenge.

The advantage of a new stove like the Morso 3610 would be more heat, much cleaner burning and a great fire view. But there are several brands you can consider as an alternative. Outside of Morso, the contemporary designed stoves often bring a premium price as compared to traditional stoves. You might want to look at Rais and Wittus. Or for a real statement maybe consider a soapstone stove from Tulikivi or Green Mountain Soapstone.

 

[sgsstat]

Do your homework and be certain you see any stove you are considering in operation and start it yourself.

We purchased a Morso 3610 in November to replace a non-EPA Upland 207 (27 years old). The Morso is a very handsome stove. It was intended to heat ~1700sf and is placed in a greatroom with a 14' cathedral ceiling. It vents into an 8x8" ceramic flue chimney with a 20' run to the top. We have been unhappy with the Morso. It can be difficult to start. It burns well with very full loads (4 large splits and a good bed of coals) and heats on the coldest nights. However, reloading a load with any flaming wood usually dumps smoke into the house. The ash pans have to be cleaned daily or every 2 days. We are burning more wood to heat the same area -- probably because we feel it need larger loads to keep the stack temp > 500*. We have found 3 smaller splits often will not burn above 400*.

I posted here in December and several replies suggested we had a problem with draft. This, of course, begs the question why draft was never a problem with the Upland, or a non-EPA Jotul 118 we have in the basement. The only advice was to line the 8x8 ceramic flue with 6" round stainless to improve the draft. It seems like an expensive experiment (probably $750).

There are a number of posters which are extremely satisfied with the 3610, however.

I suppose if you do not have a masonry chimney to contend with and would be replacing a stove pipe for your old stove, with your 26'+ run and a 6" straight stove pipe it might work just fine.

If you're interested in buying a used 3610, send a personal message. I'm going to rebuild the Upland this summer.

 

[fossil]

Wife & I (both retired) moved to Central Oregon late last summer. House is 30 y/o with an original Lopi M530...a nice old stove, but we wanted it in a different place in the house. We used it in place for a month or two while we looked at all our options. I came to this forum with my questions, and the smart folks here talked me into scrapping the old M530 and having a new stove installed on the new hearth...for a number of very sound reasons. We had a Lopi Liberty (progeny of the old M530) installed (with the factory blower kit), and we're really glad we did. We too have a cathedral ceiling in the room, and later this spring a big new ceiling fan's gonna go up there, which should make a big difference in moving the heat around. The new stove is listed & certified, burns efficiently, looks great, and puts out a lot of heat...the blower makes a huge difference. I'm glad I came and talked about it with the folks here, and I think it was well worth the $$$ to go with a new stove. Now we just gotta figure out how to get the old one outta here...the stovepipe is 1/4" wall well casing, 8" diameter, welded joints, and about 18' tall. Rick

 

[Redox]

Ditto the new stove; the difference is like night and day. Also ditto the ceiling fan. Those cathedral ceilings are a bear to keep comfortable without it. Set the fan to blow down in the winter and run it whenever the stove is lit.

 

[begreen]

I prefer the ceiling fan to blow up in the winter. No draft (cooling) on the people below it and it distributes the heat to the colder outer walls.

 

[eernest4]

Wife & I (both retired) moved to Central Oregon late last summer. House is 30 y/o with an original Lopi M530...a nice old stove, but we wanted it in a different place in the house. We used it in place for a month or two while we looked at all our options. I came to this forum with my questions, and the smart folks here talked me into scrapping the old M530 and having a new stove installed on the new hearth...for a number of very sound reasons. We had a Lopi Liberty (progeny of the old M530) installed (with the factory blower kit), and we're really glad we did. We too have a cathedral ceiling in the room, and later this spring a big new ceiling fan's gonna go up there, which should make a big difference in moving the heat around. The new stove is listed & certified, burns efficiently, looks great, and puts out a lot of heat...the blower makes a huge difference. I'm glad I came and talked about it with the folks here, and I think it was well worth the $$$ to go with a new stove.

Now we just gotta figure out how to get the old one outta here...the stovepipe is 1/4" wall well casing, 8" diameter, welded joints, and about 18' tall. Rick

Several ideas come to mind.

1. The easiest, work wise, is an actlyene/oxygen tourch & cut it out. But the tourch could be pricy, 99.95 from www.harborfrieght.com & then there is the oxy & act bottles to rent or buy. Cheaper might be to rent the tourches & bottles from the same oxy/act supplier.

2.More labor intensive but lots & lots cheaper is to buy a box of heavy metal cutting blades for a 30.oo black & decker variable speed jig saw & get a 3/8 inch metal cutting drill bit & electric drill. Drill a starter hole to put thr blade in and slowly work your way around the pipe until you complete the cut. Mark a line to follow with the jig saw before you start cutting.

3. For about 40.oo www.homier.com will sell you a chinese sawzall, which is similar to the jig saw but has a more powerful electric motor. I'm really not sure which of the two saws
would be more appropiate for the job. The jig saw is lighter & easier to handle & control but may saw slowly & will break if you force it to cut. Jig saws are designed for slow, cut at their own speed without forcing, type of cuts.

The sawzall will cut faster & you can get away with putting some reasonable pressure on it, because the motor is closer to heavy duty, but the saw is heavy & may be ackward to hold
in the cut.

With me,its not an issue because I have both saws & if I don't like the job one saw is doing, I just grab the other saw & see how it does.

You might actually have to talk to a tool dept salesman to find out what he knows about it,if
he knows anything at all, which may be doubtfull. Some salesmen are only salesmen & have never used a tool. They just run a good line of BS.

 

[eernest4]

Sorry if this has already been answered but I was wondering how much of a difference there is in new wood stoves. I currently have a Morso stove that was my fathers and is probably at least 20 years old. I dont think I am getting the heat output that I might get if i pony up for a new stove. I love the Morso design's as we have a modern house. Our stove is currently in our living room which has 26' ceiling and is rather large with a lot of glass. The room is difficult to only heat with wood especially if the temps really fall. My question is that will the convection/new technology of new wood stoves make a difference in what i need to do?. The stove is in great shape but is old. A new stove will cost a bit of money but will it be worth it by more heat output and possibly less wood consumption. Thanks for the info. and help

Just take a look at these stoves, all secondary burn wood savers, and pay especial attention to the price delevered of $799.oo for a englander 2,200 sq ft heating stove from www.overstockstove.com see model 50-tnc-30 This is the same stove as www.englanderstoves.com model # 50-30ncp & lowes summersheat model 50-snc-30lc

These stove are the dependable low cost work horses of the wood stove herd & you would have to spend $2k to buy its equal.

Then post back here & let me know if you saved 1000.oo or 2000.oo off from what the stove you had been thinking about buying would have cost you.

 

[Redox]

I prefer the ceiling fan to blow up in the winter. No draft (cooling) on the people below it and it distributes the heat to the colder outer walls.

Not to quibble with you, but I think he's going to have a real problem getting the heat down from 26 feet up, particularly if there are any lofts or balconies(I am assuming here) that cut off the recirculation. Normal people run them up in the winter, but I have never been called "normal"! :lol:

Chris

 

[lawandorder]

Wow, thanks for the information. Looks like new stove for me next season. I actually have two ceiling fans, one in the living room and one above the stairs that lead to the two upstairs bedrooms. Seems to circulate fine, a bit of snow melt on the roof where the two valleys come together so there is still a lot of heat sitting up there but thats to be expected. ONe thing I have noticed is that I currently have 8 ' vent pipe from the rear of the morso leading into 8 inch metalbestos (sp ???) with a total run of I beieve 26 ft to the top of the chimney. No probelms with the draft it draws really well and never had any problems with smoke inside etc... Will having a stove with 6" stove pipe going to 8" chimney cause me any problems with the draft or change it? I dont want to solve one problem and create a whole new one. Again thanks to everyone for the info. I like the looks of the Morso Stoves but need to find a vendor nearby and start looking into other ones as well.

 

[fossil]

I've always adhered to the "rule" of running the ceiling fan in updraft to best circulate the air without subjecting myself to wind chill...but now I'm not so sure. I'm still oufitting my workshop, but one of the first things I installed was a little Century Hearth woodstove, which I love. The space is not large, 340 sq. ft., with a 10 ft. ceiling. There's a 4' wide open passage to a couple of garages next to the shop. I noticed early on, when climbing the pull-down stairs to the attic, that warm air was really accumulating high in the shop. So I installed a little Hunter fan on a 12" downrod, and ran it in slow speed updraft for some months. It helped. Recently, while going up into the attic, I noticed there was still a considerable temperature rise as I climbed the stairs. I reversed the fan to downdraft, and it made a world of difference in successfully getting that accumulated warm air down into the room. I think a lot depends on the configuration of the room. I think a person probably needs to try different combinations of fan speed and direction to find which best satifies the desired effect. What I know is that my fan in my workshop works best for me on low speed downdraft. Rick

 

[Bill]

I have the Morso 3610 and it is designed to heat between 1400 and 2400 square feet. Mine heats very well and also looks good. But then again I read the owners manual and installed it in the proper size chimney. (6") I use it as the main heat source and overnight burns are easy. Without proper installation, expect less than desirable results. With punky or green would expect poor performance. I can open the double front door and the side door and it doesn't smoke. The reason being I have proper draft.

 

[sgsstat]

I have the Morso 3610 and it is designed to heat between 1400 and 2400 square feet. Mine heats very well and also looks good. But then again I read the owners manual and installed it in the proper size chimney. (6") I use it as the main heat source and overnight burns are easy. Without proper installation, expect less than desirable results. With punky or green would expect poor performance. I can open the double front door and the side door and it doesn't smoke. The reason being I have proper draft.

The 3610 owners manual only states chimney flue size should not be "significantly larger" than 6". Is 7 inches "significant"? How about 8"? Or is 12 inches significant? The dealer didn't seem to think an 8" flue would be problem when he sold the stove.

The point is the 3610 is a rather finicky stove if the chimney is not optimal.

We have heated exclusively with wood for 27 years with 2 different stoves, both into 8" flues (1 with a 5" collar, the other with a 7" collar) and neither has ever had a draft problem, but the 3610 does. The problem is the design of the stove.

 

[Bill]

In the same paragraph it also says "Too large a section will tend to allow the flue gases to cool excessively, causing sluggishness or unpredictability in the stoves performance." Also the chimney needs to be "16' from the top of the stove, to the cap, minimum. " Ideally a straight shot inside the house, without elbows, and round pipe. I understand that not all installations can be done this way, but my point is it can affect performance. So with the same two stoves and assuming we both use aged hard wood, why don't I have the same issues you have? It doesn't seem to me that it's the stove.

I do agree that the EPA stove's can be a little more touchy, than the old smoke dragons. But to burn clean and efficient and use less wood is worth it to me. I can also say that using this stove one season, mind you it's a cabin and I am not there all the time, that I am still on the learning curve with it. But I am completely satisfied with it.

I would also suggest using a good load of kindling when starting this stove when cold. When reloading I ad some pine and fill the stove to the top with hard wood, let it rip for a while and then I cut it back to almost closed. The temperature on the stove top runs to 650* and will run that hot for quite a while. I also find it burns better with smaller diameter splits. Hope this helps!

 

[log-on]

A better mouse trap-
Problem: Air stratification in homes with high ceilings. When tested it was found that a ceiling fan was about 20% efficient at de-stratifying the air in a home with a cathedral ceiling. What did work was a 8” heating duct system that ran from the floor to the peak and used a small squirrel cage fan in a 12” cube at the bottom. This was found to be 80% successful. You can even get fancy and rig up differential temperature sensors to automat it. The box and duct can be made to blend in with your decor. One guy used 6” PVC pipe and a bionair hepa filter so it served two duties as well. No more cold feet.

 

[Hestia]

We really liked the looks of the Morso as well, but ended up with a Woodstock Keystone. It has a clean look to it which we felt would go well in our home. Wish you could see one in person. We feel as if this stove could fit in just about any decor. handsome with simple lines. We chose it because of the top reviews, and the soapstone sides and the catalytic combustion help to give longer burns. We have it in a room with a cathedral ceiling which is not as insulated as well as we would like. We are on our initial burns, and couldn't be happier. (We would have preferred the size of the Fireview, but it would just not look good in our situation, and it was a trade off.)

Just as a heads up, you can download the Morso catalogues - I feel it is important to read what the manufacturers publish, not just what the dealer says. We have found that it is often different from the manual. (Another reason we like Woodstock - the maker is the dealer!) You can see the different Morso stoves at:

http://www.morsoe.com/us/Products/Stoves/

(btw, there was a pop up this a.m. which asked for my name - just click it off and you can see the stoves.)

When we were seriously considering the 7110, we read the manual - we didn't like how it said we needed to add wood as often as it said. We really liked the Morso modern soapstone stove as well (8151) but it was not large enough for our space, and took very small splits. In person they are very handsome stoves. But, ultimately we wanted performance overnight, the combustion is very efficient and we will be using less wood, and are just very happy with the look of the Keystone. It is shown in my avatar to the left, installed in front of our fireplace. We have been very, very happy so far after two break ins and on our third.

Hestia