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Non-stove Plumbing question...

Post in 'DIY and General non-hearth advice' started by Gooserider, Apr 24, 2007.

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  1. drizler

    drizler Minister of Fire

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    I used the L stuf for my air compressors line system sweated with good old 50/50. Routinely gets 120 or so through it with no trouble at all. Same with the water syste. I have it in lots of places and its never leaked a drop and I have the well pump jacked up as far as I dare, around 65 PSI. With that in mind I wouldn't run out and replace it in a panic. While I have hated plastic soundly for most of my life it certainly does have its place to shine. Plastic fenders on cars are better in every way and double that in the rust belt. I replaced that chit Smith &Wesson 686 hand cannon the govt issued me as soon as I could with a nice light Glock.. No more bruises on my hip or any of the other nasty painful issues of toting the steel beast. Give me a plastic gun any day if I have to carry it. When I think back that I had to carry that nasty Colt .45 once upon a time I cringe. About all it was good for was diggin under my ribcage and opening beer bottles. Coourtesy of uncle sam I have blown my glock 23 .40 cal due to some double loads they got from the factory. All that busted was the extractor and that beast bucked like a >44 Magnum. Since then I had a couple more find their way in there from my saved stockpile. No damage whatsoever, now thats strong plastic. Proves they can make good durable plastic when they want to.

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  2. Eric Johnson

    Eric Johnson Mod Emeritus

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    Don't forget chain saws.

    I don't think it's a violation of code to already have type M copper installed already--just to install it in the first place. I really don't know--maybe elk can enlighten us on that.
  3. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    Goose...Glad to hear you got the project done.
    Like people have said "this forum is better than a DIY one". A couple of thoughts...PEX might be something to keep in mind in the future. Supposedly from what I hear "It has no memory" meaning if it freezes, once it thaws it returns to it's original state. Re-using fittings??? Although people do it...I find it a royal PITA and don't usually....and like Elk said...it's not worth the chance of leaks or other problems.
    The only thing I would be cautious of though: Watch WHERE you apply the heat on what you are trying to solder. The majority of the heat (3/4 of it or better) should be applied to the fitting not the pipe. You can apply the heat to the pipe and get the solder to hold...but often it results in a "cold solder joint". Applying the heat to the fitting will suck the solder into the joint and make a good joint. The "pros" can spot what kind of work they are looking at simply by appearance...and often can spot "future problems" in advance. Trying to sweat pipes and "fight gravity? Here's a little trick...put a gentle "squeeze" on the end of the pipe with a pair of pliers, or take a screwdriver and "tweek" the end of the pipe...just enough to make it "slightly out of round"...helps to keep it together while soldering. :)
    110PSI static water pressure? Be greatfull you have it! It's better to spend a couple of bucks for a pressure reducing valve...than to have to look into "booster pumps". A little piece of mind too...should be plenty of water at the fire hydrant. :) The 110PSI??? What time of day did you take the pressure reading? (Take a reading at 1:00AM to get the most accurate reading... highest reading at my house was 132PSI)..."in the city", static pressures of 150PSI are not un-common.
    For those not too familiar with soldering, or working with "newer" solders: The trick to soldering is "applying the right amount of heat and in the right place"...put the majority of the heat on the FITTING and keep your eyes on the FLAME...when the flame changes from "bluish-red" to GREEN take the heat away and apply the solder....the solder will get sucked right into the fitting, wipe the joint down with a wet rag (how the 'pros' do it)...works every time.
    Happy Soldering!

    Goose...Just FIY: Keep it "low key". According to M.G.L. homeowners are NOT permitted to work on the domestic water systems...even in their own house. :)
  4. drizler

    drizler Minister of Fire

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    Thats a good one, not allowed to work on your own water system. Boy oh boy what a world...................................
  5. Eric Johnson

    Eric Johnson Mod Emeritus

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    Shoot! Where do I turn myself in? Maybe it's legal in NYS. If not, line me up and shoot me.

    Good soldering tips, keyman! I spent most of yesterday fixing some past "professional's" plumbing mess, recovering a lot of copper pipe and simplifying things in the process. Speaking of kinks, some people probably shouldn't be allowed to use soft copper.
  6. njtomatoguy

    njtomatoguy Feeling the Heat

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    how about CPVC?- specifically FLOWGUARD GOLD- it has a yellow stripe on it and has a one step glue-yellow
    no need for the primer -
    I have used it and it works great, meets code here for commercial bldgs, and the project I used it on was senior housing.. Go's in fast, and is inexpensive-
    the only drawback is that it is rigid, so you still need to run it like regular copper
  7. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    I think I burned up the flux the last time I failed to sweat with the new stuff. Even though it was super hot, the solder wouldn't flow.
  8. Eric Johnson

    Eric Johnson Mod Emeritus

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    Sounds like maybe there was water in the line. Even if you drain it out, sometimes some remains and it will make it impossible to get the fitting hot enough to flow the solder. BTW, you can overheat pipe and fittings pretty easily, especially when trying to unsolder an old fitting.
  9. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    No water. Next time I try, I will use MAPP instead of propane. Maybe the temp was too high too long for the flux, but not high enough for the solder to run, if that makes sense.
  10. Eric Johnson

    Eric Johnson Mod Emeritus

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    Overheating is a common problem for beginners. You can buy tinning flux that has some solder in it and you can see when it's ready. I'd just play around with some spare pipe and fittings until you get it right. I don't think MAPP gas is the answer. The blue tank is more than sufficient. Be sure to keep the flame on the opposite side of the fitting from where you're going to pour in the solder. Usually that's the bottom. And don't try to heat everything up too quickly. You need good, even heat for a good joint.
  11. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    I used a bottled propane torch for all my piping when I replaced the old galvanized pipes. It worked well for 1/2 and 3/4 inch copper. But I'd want more heat if I were working 1" or larger.
  12. titan

    titan Minister of Fire

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    I f your pipe and fittings aren't perfectly clean, the liquidus solder will bead off like water.Always clean with good sandcloth;just the natural oils on your skin can contaminate your "clean-Looking" pipe.Too much heat can be as bad as too little-can also cause solder to bead away.Re-using fittings isn't worth the misery either;unless I'm in a bind.
  13. Eric Johnson

    Eric Johnson Mod Emeritus

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    Maybe I'm just a piker, but I don't mind reusing fittings, usually with good results. The hardest part is cleaning out the old solder. I've found the best way to do that is by holding the fitting with a pair of pliers and heating it until the solder melts, then tapping it on a wooden workbench or some other relatively soft surface. The old solder usually drops right out. You can do the same thing and clean it out with steel wool, with mixed results. Or, if you're really good, you can poke a piece of clean pipe covered with flux into the hot fitting and then heat the whole works up good and add a little more solder to finish the job. Cleaning the parts of the fitting adjacent to the area being soldered is important, too.

    I also routinely solder 1" pipe and larger with a blue Bernzomatic gas bottle and a standard torch.

    Must be my day to be a contrary cuss.
  14. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    I'm not a plumber, but I know that in the electronics world, where I've had to work to mil-spec on many occasions, and have almost gotten a NASA "Satellite" cert, it isn't considered a big problem to have solder on a part, (assuming that parts re-use is allowed on a given application) - indeed it's considered a minor advantage to work with "pre-tinned" parts... In the case of a copper fitting or pipe end, it would seem like you already have gotten the solder to cover the copper once, "pre-tinning" it. As long as the pipe will go into the fitting, I don't see what the issue is. (And I've seen our state licensed master-plumber re-use fittings on occasion) Indeed I'd see the "pre-tinned" part as an advantage... Clean both parts as usual, flux everything, but you should only need a touch of extra solder to supplement whats already there and making half the bond for you.

    I can see why a pro might not find it worth the time to salvage a fitting from pipe that was otherwise going to be tossed, but not why there'd be an issue with recycling a fitting that was freed up in the course of taking something apart, or that was already sitting on a pipe where the new parts were going in...

    Gooserider
  15. drizler

    drizler Minister of Fire

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    Here is an old trick I got from a master plumber when it comes to wet pipe solder joints. BREAD. If you get water trickling down which cools the pipe just stuff a piece of that shitty cheesey stuff I only feed the birds, Wonderbread. Any junk white bread will work. Make a little plug and stuff it in there far enough to not burn. That will hold your water back unitl the joint is sealed. Once the water is turned on it falls apart and goes away. There, now you have another practical use for American bread besides feeding the birds.
  16. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Interesting idea, though I'd be a little concerned about it fouling valves, especially in a toilet. The other problem is, we've never had the stuff in the house, not even for bird food.
  17. drizler

    drizler Minister of Fire

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    Never had a problem fouling anything. It pretty much just disintegrates int the same nothingness from which it came. Eat the stuff, yecch. Who wants to eat something that has to have the vitamins put back in because they all have been removed. My inlaws in Europe claim its only use is that it fits in a toaster well. I don't even give it that much credit. Its like the twinky legend. The stuff doesn't mould quickly because its so artificial. The birds like it though .
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