Noob Questions and then some

[gitmo234]

Hey everyone,

Long story short I was stationed overseas in Europe for 9 years both as active duty military, and eventually as a civilian employed by the military. I finally got sent back to the US about 2 years ago and bought my first house last april, in south east PA.

I setup my utilities but not knowing about propane buying season, price, etc, I didnt think much of my tank only having 400 gallons (of a 1000 gallon tank) left. My central heat is propane, forced air.

It started getting cold and I called the propane company and they said that based on the previous owners usage, they wanted $527 a month to fill the tank and refill as needed throughout the winter. I thought that was pretty outrageous and definitely an unexpected expense. So instead I did some research and found someone willing to cut me a deal on a fireplace insert. My fireplace was originally a wood fireplace, that the previous owners had installed a small gas kit in for looks. I took that out and had it capped proffesionally.

I read a bit on this website and ran 8 feet of stove pipe up the chimney and put the insert in. It's an old fireboss, which from my understanding is a generic one made back in the 80's, nothing special, probably could do a lot better with something else. It has a blower, which is one thing I wanted. One problem is my living room has 25 foot vaulted ceilings and a loft over looking it, with a ceiling fan in the loft. The total house space is 2700 square feet.

My goal is to use wood as my primary source of heat, since I've discovered that my neighbors all do the same, and eventually I plan on installing a wood stove in my dining/kitchen area by purchasing some triple walled pipe and a through-the-wall kit. I'm probably going to throw down for a propane tank fill in a month or two and set my thermostat to 57 degrees as a back up for the wood.

My neighbors burn about 4 cords of wood in the winter. I have a feeling I'm going to need more.

Also, relatively soon I'm going to purchase an outdoor woodstove, that feeds into the forced air, maybe from the Shaver. They have a model that does that. For now I'm on a budget. Buying a house is expensive and I'm just now starting to recover from all the costs, coupled with $5000 in medical bills after insurance.

So a couple of questions... does anyone have an outdoor wood furnace and can they provide any feedback on it?

Any other ideas on heating the place with the insert? Right now I can keep the living room close to 68 degrees, and the kitchen in the low 60s as it is, fireplace insert only. Master bedroom too, but the master bath is basically an ice box. Its about as effective at holding heat as a coat made of kleenex.

Any other ideas?

 

[laynes69]

I don't think you will find an efficient outdoor forced air furnace. You would use much more than 4 cords for a house that size with an outdoor unit. If you needed something outdoors and you wanted to burn less wood then a gasifier boiler would be a better option, but also expensive. If you have ductwork in your home and a chimney that can be used, or even a new chimney there are indoor wood furnaces that are very efficient and would use much less wood than an outside unit. We heat with a EPA certified wood furnace. We have a old victorian that stays warm. Last year we used 6.5 cords, and expect to see around 5 to 5.5 cords this year. Wood furnaces get a bad wrap, but with newer ones hitting the market things are looking better. Investing in insulation if needed and airsealing will go a long way towards comfort and savings.

 

[gitmo234]

If I understood you right, there are wood stoves I can hook into my current forced air system? My house was built in the 70's so is a relatively modern house. Problem is that the living room has one wall that is almost entirely windows, almost every room has double doors to the outside, etc.

I'll have to look up some air sealing to see how much of it, if any, can be done DIY.

 

[cmonSTART]

There are some wood fired furnaces on the market. I know Blaze King has one which is pretty efficient (shameless BK plug). Englander has one. They need to be installed properly and with their own flue, but they are out there.

 

[laynes69]

I wouldn't have said anything about sealing and insulation, but having an icebox for a room isn't fun. You can check around and have a blower door test done on the home to determine whether it needs improvement or not. All those little leaks can add up to a large hole in the house wasting heat and comfort. Here is a link to give you an idea what to look for.
http://www.efficiencyvermont.com/ste...ide_062507.pdf

As far as woodfurnaces go, there are quite a few on the market now that have some sort of secondary combustion built into the design of the furnace. Some to look up are the Psg Caddy, the Blaze King Apex, the Energy King 385EK, and the Kumma Vapor Fire furnace. Getting an idea on what your heat load is will help on choosing a unit, or stove that will be sized right for the home. We have the Caddy furnace and its installed in parallel with our Lp furnace. When installed correctly they are very effective at heating a home. Ours has a large blower to distribute the heat through the home, and some are add-ons that use the current furnace blower instead of their own.

 

[gitmo234]

Sounds great. I was just actually looking at the APEX model on cmonSTART plug. Right now, with all doors open except the master bathroom (the icebox), the thermostat is reading 63 degrees, but it's behind a wall in a hallway. I'd be wiling to guess its several degrees warmer int he living room. The kitchen/dining room and master bath are a bit cooler. If I close up a curtain (in between the kitchen and living room) and the doors it stays about 70 degrees and it's 28 degrees outside right now.

I'm personally comfortable at this temp but my girlfriend isnt. She's a 72 or warmer in every room person.

Ideally I'd like to get something like an APEX and have it as a primary heat with no support of the gas furnace, only use it as a backup if I go away for the weekends or get called up. (Serving national guard now as well).

How much (roughly) does an APEX run? I've got 3 largish disbursements of money owed to me coming in the next 9 weeks or so... first time home buyers credit, and several other things I'm owed for work. The end goal is to have forced air heat that feels like I'm just using my gas, but runs on wood, and of course, solar panels.

I dont live in the woods but there are plenty around. My neighbors and I collect most of our wood for free. I wouldnt of had to buy any wood if I started with them this summer. They take down trees, split, collect wherever they can. We go out, take as many truckloads as we can and divide it evenly.

I'm slowly becoming obsessed with wood burning, the lifestyle and all it entails.

I'm originally from missouri but I left home at 18 and spent my life stationed abroad until I was 27-28. Its amazing how fast the ol' missouri roots come out now that I'm settled in PA. Only took a fall/winter for me to have four wheelers dragging trees, I own a chainsaw now, and I split wood regularly.

 

[Renovation]

If I understood you right, there are wood stoves I can hook into my current forced air system? My house was built in the 70's so is a relatively modern house. Problem is that the living room has one wall that is almost entirely windows, almost every room has double doors to the outside, etc.

I'll have to look up some air sealing to see how much of it, if any, can be done DIY.

Hi G,

I second the suggestions for indoor furnaces.

You could the outdoor furnace route, but as a WAG I'm thinking you'd burn at least 50% more wood, with the various inefficiencies of an outdoor furnace. I've heard the Central Boiler E-Classic is a relatively good outdoor furnace, but if efficiency is a priority I'd go with indoor.

HTH, and welcome.

 

[laynes69]

Your probably looking around 3200 for a Apex. The other furnaces will be around the 2500-3500 range but they qualify for the tax credit. There are lower models out there that will work, but they will use more wood and will not burn as clean. The Apex is the only Catalytic furnace that I know of, while the Caddy is a Non-Cat furnace along with the others. More than likely you wont get the seering heat from a woodfurnace at the registers. Instead you get a steady supply of warm air while there is a fire going. That way you get less btus spread over a period of time unlike a central furnace that puts them out at once to warm the home. Our woodfurnace and others is on a wall thermostat. I can set mine at 72 and it will stay there until its time to load the furnace. Anyway you go, you will want well seasoned wood for any of the units to perform properly.

 

[laynes69]

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