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Not trying to poke a grizzly....

Post in 'Classic Wood Stove Forums (prior to approx. 1993)' started by metalsped, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. valley ranch

    valley ranch Feeling the Heat

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    I'd like to encourage anyone with and older stove to build or have built a secondary air. There are some great examples of facebook. Guys on this forum have shown how they have done theirs.

    I'm building one now for a stove that works well as is but will work that much better when I install it.
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    I'm not saying they're fibbing when they say" They bought a brand new up to date stove and where, they used to burn 57 cords and last year they only burned 6 splits.

    But I think I'll do as our fellows who have added this fix to their older stoves and enjoy my great old Centennial as much or more than I always have.

    It's snowing right now and its nice and warm in here. I picked up a wire welder, I'm using 2" square tubing to make a rectangle, I'll use round pipe to run a couple tubes across inside that, I'll weld 4 3/4" couplings, one in each corner of the square tube { holes of course so air can pass through} when 3/4" pipe is screwed into each coupling they will act as legs and from the bottom of these the pipe will exit the stove where the secondary air will enter.
    I have some 3/4" gas line that I salvaged when working on the line at the lower ranch, we're going down there tomorrow, n I'll bring it back.
    Been kinda busy but a couple three hours more and I should be able to bring it up and fit it into this great old stove. Bought it new when I was a young fellow just building this place, before wife n I met. I love wifey, she means way more to me than that old stove but I plan to keep em both. When I get the fire going and she brings me coffee in my favourite cup n smiles and touches my cheek. Well, I.......................
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013

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  2. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    There are different ways to be frugal. Some times you have to spend money to be frugal. IN 2002 when oil was goin thru the roof i did the math and put a new stoker$2650) on a credit card. Paid that card off before winter was over for less money than it would have cost to burn oil for the whole winter which was about $4000.
  3. valley ranch

    valley ranch Feeling the Heat

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    I've read threads on Classic wood stoves a fellow asking something about a stove or installation. Guys responding on this thread for no good reason but to pick at and make the guy feel bad. Why you driving that old car buy a new one. This is CLASSIC STOVE FOURM. Some people just joined this forum, ask a question and are treated rudely. Maybe there should be a RUDE DUDE FORUM for those who enjoy that sort of thing.

    Let's be nice, if we can't help a mate or don't want to, don't say anything.





    I have a Model A, a 66 Riviera and a couple great older stoves in our ranch houses. Old thing are good, like our Uncle Arnold and the Bible.
  4. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    Nothing wrong with an older stove so long as it is installed correctly and still up to the task of doing it's job (as in not shot).

    Also, many times folks don't understand what is out there on the market today in terms of a quality stove at a reasonable price. I often see folks as they get sticker shock by looking at high end modern stoves and think that is their only option. Additionally, they may not know the benefits that a modern stove has to offer.

    The other concern is that many folks don't know that non-ul or non-epa stoves can be illegal to install in certain areas as well as unacceptable to many insurance companies.

    At the end of the day this place is about making sure people can make informed choices. If after going through the information presented they find a classic stove is right for them, that is outstanding.

    If you think someone is simply being abusive for the sake of beating up on older stoves, and not posting for the goal of helping someone make that informed decision, use the report button.

    pen
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
    PapaDave likes this.
  5. valley ranch

    valley ranch Feeling the Heat

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    Greetings, Cory, I'd like to see how you added the tubes. I'm working on a quickie secondary now. Bet you did it well. Please if you get a chance a picture would be great to see.

    Richard
  6. rowerwet

    rowerwet Minister of Fire

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    the Fisher came with the house, if I have to line the chimney I will put in a Tempwood.
    I just added the fire baffle to the Fisher, the increase in heat from the stove is great,
    since my wood is free, how much would I have to save to make the cost of a new stove worth it?
  7. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    Depends on what you are looking for. Sounds like we have similar stories.

    Added a baffle to my fisher and was pleased. Got to the point that the chimney needed a liner but couldn't get one down large enough for the fisher so I started shopping. Bought a used epa stove for 450 bucks. The previous owner had the big stove in a single wide trailer and spent the winter with the windows open, was selling the stove to help pay for a pellet unit.

    The fisher was a GREAT heater. I could put that place to 80+ in sub zero Fahrenheit weather. The fisher would hold a fire overnight, but couldn't during the day while I was at work, at least not without being damped down so low that it smoked all day. That meant I often came home to a 60 degree house and had to start a new fire every evening. It would take the stove about an hour to bring things back up to 70, so I wasn't complaining.

    Hooked up the modern stove and I come home to a 65 degree house and still plenty of coals left to just throw wood on and go, but it still takes an hour to get things up to 70, but since the house is warmer to start and it's just a load, no paper, kindling, etc, it's a benefit.

    The biggest thing was wood consumption, I was going through 5.5 to 6 cord a winter with the fisher. The englander 30 I picked up does that same job on 4 to 4.5 cord of wood. To boot, the chimney stays cleaner, house maintains a better average temp, and I have a big glass window for watching the fire.

    In the end, I never planned on or wanted to get rid of the fisher as I loved it, but I certainly can't complain a bit about the replacement. Also, I had been stuck with the same homeowners insurance company because I couldn't find another that would take me on with a non-UL approved stove.

    For my cabin, I'm still running the old school stoves and plan to keep it that way. And for anyone else, if they are happy with what they have, and it is safe, stick with it.

    My grandmother still likes to burn about a cord of wood per winter. For her, no way in heck I'm taking the fisher out, she knows how to run it and there's no point in having her learn a new stove at this point. Others like the older stoves because they are also better at using wood that is less than well seasoned.

    pen
  8. peakbagger

    peakbagger Minister of Fire

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    My wood boiler was free for the taking, it may not be a gasifier but with storage I run it flat out so the efficiency is not bad. When some one offers me a good gasifier free fro the taking, I will consider replacing it but it would be hard to justify the cost of a new one.

    Many other folks run non EPA woodstoves as they will burn wet wood. Sure they take an efficiency hit but to some folks buying or cutting wood 1 to 2 years in advance just does not happen so the choice is less than ideal wood or no wood at all.
  9. Motor7

    Motor7 Feeling the Heat

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    I do agree with Valley, some of us non cat folks & non secondary folks should take a look at either adding secondaries or adding more secondaries. My H1 only has one mid mounted and I think it would be more efficient with two mounted high under the baffle. Tinkering with these older stoves is fun and I have read a few stories of moderate success with homemade secondary burn tubes.
    pen likes this.
  10. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Not sure how I missed this thread.
    I loved my old Nashua, ran it for over 30 years when the house was not all that tight at times and it handled it well, very user friendly, load it and run the flue temp up to about 450 and reduce the air some and you could bank on the results.
    What happened you ask, I joined Hearth.com thats what and was inundated with threads and posts about "smoke dragons" crappy stoves, getting more heat with less wood ect. and this was from some who were still crapping yellow when I started burning wood.
    Smoke dragon means you are burning wet wood, many good older stoves out there, how you run your stove has a lot to do with its efficiency.
    Its all good now, love the window on the Summit, had to tighten up the house to get it to heat the place but needed that any way.
    Not sure how much less wood I burn do to the stove because of the new windows and some more insulation here and there, insulated window shades are next.
    Nashua is headed for shop and might have it done this weekend, looking forward to running it after 3 years with the Summit, I will give an honest opinion of how it runs compared to the new stove.
    Great question.
  11. georgepds

    georgepds New Member

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    I posted to this thread earlier before I bought my new EPA stove, so this is a before/after post

    I loved my old pre-EPA Jotul Combifire .. but over the 30 years I used it, I think it warped some. The door never shut properly, and the fire burned hot. Towards the end, the door would sometimes pop open. I could keep it close by wrapping a chain around it.. but it had approached major kludge stage.. and its' time was up.

    I got a Woodstock progress hybrid, mostly on the recommendation of this forum. I had my heart set on a Vermont casting, and it was here I learned about troubles with the old Vt casting company. Like others, I'm a big fan of the Woodstock stove company, and am very pleased with the new stove. Before buying it, my wife and I visited the company, and she liked its looks. I did not want to dump $3k into something that would annoy her (we all learn something over time) , no matter how well it worked

    Also I wanted something simple.. the electric goes out a lot in winter where I live (on a barrier island) .. and I did not want something that needed a blower to operate properly.

    One thing I notice is the heat up the chimney is much less with the woodstock PH, probably a reflection of greater transfer of heat to the room as opposed to the outside. The other thing I notice is it takes about an hour to heat up the room.. this could be due to the soapstone heat characteristics,,.. or to the controlled burn rates of EPA stoves. With the Jotul I could be warm and toasty in minutes.

    The other thing I notice, and this is a biggy, it stays warm in the house much longer. The old Jotul would cool down from its blast furnace stage pretty quickly.. For backup I have a propane wall heater with a fan that sounds like a 747 jet engine. Somewhere about 3am the wall heater would fire up at the 50F setpoint, the fan would wake me, and half the dead in the graveyard two towns over. I'd get up, start another fire, and be good till 6am. With the woodstock.. it's toasty all night, and I never have to feed it at 3 am, or even 6am

    Finally, for a given amount of heat, it uses much less wood. On a cold night I'd feed the Jotul 4 or 5 times.. I rarely feed the woodstock more than twice.. once to get started. and a few more splits for the overnight burn

    I don't think I would have bought one 30 years ago, even if it had been available. First, I wouldn't spend the money on something I might not use, by now I'm pretty certain I like to heat with wood. Second, I did not have the money back then, I do now (time and fortune change for us all)

    But... if I knew back then how much better an EPA stove works (and the Woodstock PH was available) I might have bought one and saved myself 30 years of 3 am wakeup calls from the fan of DOOM
  12. rowerwet

    rowerwet Minister of Fire

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    last winter with lousy wood, I would load the Fisher for the night, when I got up the next morning it was still hot to the touch, piling more wood on the coals would bring the fire back on it's own. during the day my wife feeds it so I come home to a very hot house.
    as long as the wood is free, the stove stays
  13. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    I remember back when I found this site and preached about how great my old stove was. It cracked that same year and that was the best thing that ever happened for heating this house. It went out and the new one came in and I don't have to c/s/s that extra three cords every year. A good thing for an old guy and the first year with the new stove my wife said "This joint has never been this warm."

    Burn on in the old dogs folks. Sometimes I miss the old one. I cannot imagine why. Nostalgia from losing an old friend of 21 years I guess.
    Seasoned Oak and pen like this.
  14. Dustin

    Dustin Feeling the Heat

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    When I first moved out on my own, I was cold and couldn't afford the heating bill. So, I ran an old Kodak slammer insert. I loved the look, the heat, but I just couldn't heat the house with it.

    Bought another house that had an arrow per EPA stove. I attempted to heat with it, using seasoned wood, and feeding the stove like mad.

    I finally decided it was time to upgrade. Installed a quad 4100i, my wood consumption dropped, and I'm finally warm :)

    As a cost factor, if it would have heated this place I would never have spent the cash to upgrade
  15. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    I'm guessing I made my mistake by not getting an exact measurement of the old stove's firebox and matching it with the EPA stove, in a open floor plan in a 2500 sq foot house smaller in not better.
  16. Bret Chase

    Bret Chase Minister of Fire

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    The reason I am still running a smoke dragon is because I am poor, unfortunately In my old farm house, the K-1 monitors were crushingly expensive to run... My friend gave me the Better 'N Ben stove out of his garage. I scrimped and saved to put in a new class A chimney, as my masonry chimney is unlined... never mind the chimney fires that have been in it... I have access to several hundred acres of woods, a chainsaw and a splitter. ever since the smoke dragon has been installed, my house has been warm... and I am not spending $30+ a day on kerosene.

    Do I want an EPA stove.... yep. but some family court issues need to be attended to, and they will be shortly. I would *love* to drop that smoke dragon off at the scrapyard.... and watch secondaries dance through mica glass.

    all things in time.
    pen and Oldhippie like this.
  17. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    You'll get there. For now just burn dry wood in the BnB, don't choke it down and keep that pipe clean.
  18. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    NON EPA Stove are very good for quick heat.Probably better the EPA stoves. I have a few homemade ones, that no EPA stove could touch for quick intense heat output, like the 2 i made out of an old oil tanks. Talk about heat transfer from all those square FT of sheet metal. Either one would work well in a large enclosure heated part time. You can make these babies for just about nothin. Any time i find good furnace doors on scrapped coal stoves i think about where i can use them.
  19. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    And this is why the two stoves in my cabin are still pre-epa units. For part time heat, only burning about a cord a winter out there, the upgrade wouldn't be much of a benefit.
  20. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    That barrel stove in the basement in the eighties was a heat throwing monster. ;em
  21. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    Right,and quick heat in a cabin is possible with something very different and much cheaper to obtain than a 24/7 home heating EPA wood stove. No way would i think of dragging any of my EPA stoves into a large garage or work shop where i need quick heat on a part time basis. Not worried about burn time,and wood consumption. Just fast heat safely.
    pen likes this.
  22. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    I still have one of these (double stacked) and use it occasionally. Still thinking there must be a simple way to get some secondaries out of this concept.
  23. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    My double barrel was great after I hauled it out to the pole barn, cut doors in both ends of the top barrel and put racks in the top and made a smoker out of it. You could probably smoke a whole Grizzly, back to the title, in the thing.
    Seasoned Oak likes this.
  24. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    I guess "smoking meat" could be considered as getting a secondary benefit out of your burning wood. Instead of more "heat" you get more "meat".
    BrotherBart likes this.
  25. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    I still can't believe I actually burned that thing in a brand new house. ;em

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