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nothing but problems with a hearthstone heritage

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by new burner, Oct 31, 2009.

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  1. new burner

    new burner New Member

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    this is the top of the board, I put my camera up there with a flash light. Is it suppose to have that black shiney, paint stuff up there? Its sprrayed around the top of the box and a bit by the doors. Looks like gloss black spay paint.

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  2. new burner

    new burner New Member

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    center of the stove.

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  3. new burner

    new burner New Member

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    Some cement smudges on the cast, you can see a bit of the black paint by the door, and some splatters on the upper part of the cast iron. the black paint stuff is mostly on the inside upper part of the box, and all around the inside upper corners. does your have the shinney black paint stuff?

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  4. new burner

    new burner New Member

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    The inside is clean because I havent had but a few fires.
  5. new burner

    new burner New Member

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    I looking at some of my pictures, Ive noticed that their are some pretty clear finger prints, in the cement .
    Guess I'll know for sure who did the cementing.
  6. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    I have no black paint anywhere inside my stove except the original cast iron secondary manifold was painted flat black. The top of my baffle is always the same color as my firebox. I was up above the baffle before I ever burnt my stove and everything was stone colored, cement, colored, or painted cast iron. The baffle top was white.

    The photo of the inside looks like the spray paint streaks but I think it really is just the air leaks coming into the stove and causing funky deposits. If the leaks weren't there then I suspect that the black color would be uniform. Looks more like creosote than paint.

    When professionals repaint these stoves they mask off all the stone and then spray them. Maybe the cast iron side door frame needed to be touched up and that's where the overspray came from.

    Your front air tube is drilled for a cotter pin but I don't see the holes in the middle tube which is where I have two additional cotter pin holes. Jim C will have insight as to when and if the design change took place.

    It looks pretty fubar. We'll need to see what the manufacturer and the dealer say.
  7. meathead

    meathead Feeling the Heat

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    WOW

    That last pic of the cement and paint splatter on the enameled cast is laughable. No way that thing left the factory like that. I hope you are e-mailing hearthstone these too
  8. tutu_sue

    tutu_sue New Member

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    I had an experience where an air leak left shiny black creosote exactly like that. It was like laquer and would not come off no matter what. That was a leak where a lot of air was getting IN not out.

    I found the leak at night in pitch black darkness with my husband shining a very bright huge maglight all around the outside while I had my head inside the door. If that black stuff is under the top and above the baffle, air is getting inside the stove in a BIG big way. I would thoroughly check the top seals of the of the front and side doors, the top of the door frames, the rear vent frame and rear vent cover and especially the connection of your stove pipe to the stove. On my stove I have the stove pipe adapter and goes down so I can only fit a finger between the pipe and the stop of the stove. Yours looks way higher than that. Who knows maybe so much air is getting in that the draft is being overpowered by the airleak and creating a whirlwind of smoke in the stove...

    Another test would be to build a hot fire and then stick something that smokes like a cigar or incense to the pipe and vents and see if the smoke gets sucked in. I had better luck with the light thing though and found the problem fast.
  9. new burner

    new burner New Member

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    tu tu sue,
    You just made my day, The black stuff is real heavey in the upper corners of the stove. And above those tubes.
    I can only see the smoke come out, when the stove is cold. When I mess up starting a fire, and it goes out. When there is not a good draw up the stove pipe yet. I would say that is absolute proof that this stove is messed up.
    I have e-mailed JC at hearthstone, and sent many pictures. The guy from the dealer still has'nt called me back or even come to look at the stove. I'm calling the dealer again tomarrow, and he best get his ass out here.

    Weird thing is most of those cement smudges didnt show up until I had a fire in the stove. Maybe they were wiped off enough to where you couldnt see them. Then when they got hot, and started to cure they became more visible. I dont know.
    I just wanted a nice stove to warm the house.
    Thank you all so much. I have learned so much.
    I'll let you know what goes down.
  10. branchburner

    branchburner Minister of Fire

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    I think your detective work is paying off. At a cold start the poor draft is causing smoke, and the poor seal is allowing it to leak. Once the draft is established the stove starts burning too hot because of the leak, but is forming the film of creosote where the cool air is being sucked in.

    I don't know if your bank stopped payment on your check, but I think you now have clear evidence that you were knowingly sold a faulty stove.
  11. edthedawg

    edthedawg Minister of Fire

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    I'm mostly lurking on this thread - fairly convinced this is a poorly re-constructed stove along w/ some questionable operation practices. The inside pix look nice and clean (good burn), but then the pix above the board (fulla shiny creosote) and the accompanying description of when the smoking occurs ("When I mess up starting a fire, and it goes out. When there is not a good draw up the stove pipe yet...") lead me to seriously question the way this potentially defective stove is being fueled and operated...

    And I have no financial stake in the matter, mind you.

    The dealer seems to have a rather significant one.

    So it's kinda easy to see where he might get a bit defensive, in light of the evidence being produced. Hopefully the damning evidence of the half-assed rebuild is enough to convince him and/or the mfr. of the issues.

    One suggestion on operating - no matter what you're burning or how you've been burning it - get that sucker hotter, faster. Don't be afraid to heat it up. You cannot possibly heat it up so fast as to cause yourself a problem whereby the stove will shatter and collapse in on itself.

    get it hot, keep it hot, run it hot. good luck to you...
  12. branchburner

    branchburner Minister of Fire

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    Only if you plan to keep the stove. If you plan to return it, stop using it altogether. I suspect the dealer is rooting for evidence of overfiring.
  13. tutu_sue

    tutu_sue New Member

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    I had a little shmear of cement show up on the top casting. Nothing to write home about...

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  14. karri0n

    karri0n New Member

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    Any new news on this???
  15. new burner

    new burner New Member

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    I talked to JC, technical support at hearthstone. Well through e-mail, he didnt return any phone calls.
    He says it sounds like I have a draft problem. I sent him many pictures also. He still says That I have a draft problem and that I should work with the dealer. I asked if the stove should be airtight. He says a better word would be combution control. So he didnt really answer the question.
    The dealer is coming out Wednessday to install a new cap on the chimney, to help with draft.

    My thoughts on the matter are, if they fix the draft problem, if there is one, I will be going through a lot of wood. And with bad air leaks in the stove, I wont be getting any kind of controlled combustion.
    I have sent letters to the dealer informing him of the problem, (certified and e-mail) as to leave a paper trail.
    Because it looks like this very well might go to court.

    The dealer assured me that if they cant fix the problem, they will send the stove back to Hearthstone and I will get a new stove. Sending threatening letters did help to get the dealer to move on this . I think the only way to fix the stove would be to rebuild it. And I paid for a new stove not a rebuilt. But thats just my opinoin.

    Hearthstone really doesnt seem to care much about the situation. I would never recomend anyone buy one of
    these stoves. Go with the fireside, I wish I did.

    I have been so concerned with the stove that I havent even payed much attention to the install. Well over the weekend it was nice outside. I was out in the yard doing yard work. So I looked up to check out the chimney. Flashing glued down right over the shingles, dam it ! more problems. Even I know the top part of the flashing should be under the shigles. That is deffinately going to leak.
    Now you know I have go into the attic to check that out also, I should have done it right away anyway, but the stove problems had me preoccupied.
    The opening for the stove pipe is not framed out, no fire stop radiation shield is installed, no attic insulation shield either. And with no brace on the pipe outside, whats holding it in place? The bottom of the stove pipe and the roof flashing?

    Welcome to my nightmare!

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  16. new burner

    new burner New Member

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    roof picture

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  17. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    With the insulation in the way, there isn't a way to see how it was installed. However, the support box needs to be absolutely clean, no sawdust or insulation in there. Then it should have an insulation shield added. As for the outside brace, there should be a brace for every 5 ft the flue extends above the roof.
  18. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    definitely a botched installation. No question that the flashing should be under the shingles, and the attic insulation shield needs to be installed. Can we see the rest of the exterior chimney pics from a distance?
  19. daryl

    daryl Feeling the Heat

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    Call your local inspector. Not a safe install document everything.I have no idea how your chimney is staying in place unless they screwed it at the flashing or used a roof support.
    How far does the pipe come out of the roof. If it is a 8/12 pitch it should be 104" tall.That needs a roof brace kit. If you do not have that much sticking out that could be your drafting issue.
  20. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    Mighty steep roof and the stove is at the eave side of the house. Does the chimney meet minimum height specs? 10/2/3 rule?

    Our stoves are not "airtight" as an old time stove would be. There is always a wide open leak of secondary combustion air. The seams should be sealed of course, I don't think JC would tell you otherwise.

    By Fireside did you mean you should have bought a fireview? Nice stove also.
  21. meathead

    meathead Feeling the Heat

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    WOW didn't even flash it. Get that thing outa there. The whole thing.

    Daryl is right - have a local inspector look at it if you can, and have him put in writing everything that is wrong with it. That will go a long way in your conversations with your dealer

    Too bad hearthstone didn't get in your corner at all. Obviously they have to side with their dealer wherever possible...but a little support would be nice
  22. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    I would say once this is resolved, have someone come in and flash the roof right, and put a storm collar around the pipe and support box. That will bring that part up to code. My guess is if they did that part wrong, they got the chimney hight wrong too, which is why this stove is showing all its defects. If the chimney was installed properly, you would have never likley noticed the problems that are happing. The stove is in bad shape, no question about it, but your main complaint on this forum would been that the cement was sloppy. I agree with Jim C @ hearthstone that this is draft related, and by the looks of the installers they did not know there head from a hole in the wall. Lets put it this way, if you had a stove that did not have any leaks in the top plate area, and you lit it up, the smoke would come out somewhere else, most likely through the air intake, the door gasket, the pipe/stove joint, the pipe joints or somewhere else. The gap in the stove just happens to be the place of least resistance. At this moment, the stove is not my biggest concern, even though it looks jacked up, its the chimney. Any stove on a improperly installed/designed chimney is not going to work. On the "glass half full" scenario, its a good thing the stove told you it had a bad spot and the chimney is not doing its job, because now you can address both issues.
  23. new burner

    new burner New Member

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    My guess is the pipe outside is about 5 of 6 feet.
    I dont have a picture of the whole thing, I'll take one tomarrow and post it.
    Its too dark outside already to take another picture.
  24. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    the math is simple. the chimney needs to be 2' above anything within 10'

    10' horizontal on a 10/12 pitch is 100". 100" + 24" is 124". That scenario would require 11' of pipe from the roof line to the top of the chimney cap. The short chimney is most of the issue here. Doesnt excuse the condition of the stove, but the stove is not the issue. The shabby installation is the issue. These guys did a real bad hack installation.

    If they bring out a brand new heritage, and install it on that same pipe. The issues would be the same, but the smoke would be coming out somewhere else.
  25. blacktop37

    blacktop37 Member

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    Dont blame Hearthstone for your short chimney. Please reread my earlier post. You have a good stove from a good company. That tall roofline can cause many strange problems with the draft. Can you angle the chimney towards the top of the ridge? It would mke it a warmer pipe and easier to clean. Whatever it takes you need to get it right and it will be problem free for years.
    Dont Give UP!
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