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Oak ID and a big hollow Ash

Post in 'The Wood Shed' started by mywaynow, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. mywaynow

    mywaynow Minister of Fire

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    I know this is an Oak, but what species? It does not look to be a Red, nor a Pin. I am thinking White. Second phots is a big old Ash that is so hollow it is beginning to fracture upward and is splitting the bark. The Ash is North of 100 ft tall and 28 dbh. There is barely 4 inches of the outer ring left at ground level. If I tried, I think I could get inside the thing through the crack shown in the pic. There is another opening 90 degrees from this one, but only big enough to reach into. I may try and drop this one tomorrow. It is a tad too close to the house and will likely take out a fence and planted Maple tree if it goes in its' lean direction.

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    zap likes this.

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  2. andybaker

    andybaker Feeling the Heat

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    Yes. White Oak. The rounded tips on the leaves are the Whites. If they're pointed it's a Red. I'd be afraid to fell a tree like that. I don't have enough experience to know how to plan for the unexpected in that case.
  3. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    What's the plan for cutting that ash?

    pen
  4. mywaynow

    mywaynow Minister of Fire

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    I am thinking of getting a heavy duty rope ( I have access to a 300 ft rated in the 1000s of lbs) attached high up and getting some pressure drawing it to the right as pictured. Then I am going to buy a 10 ft bar for my saw and stand as far away as that bar allows me. ==c Actully, I am waiting for Scotty to chime in on this one. I contemplated having a climber look at it, but I don't think he would be interested in hanging his but from that thing. If I can get the rope situated, I would give it hell and cut it straight from the push side, wedge it when possible and see what happens.
    Thistle and ScotO like this.
  5. red oak

    red oak Minister of Fire

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    +1 on the White Oak, was just splitting some today. As for the tree, the hollow bottom would make me nervous. I would definitely want a heavy-duty rope to pull that one. Would love to see some pics when you tackle it!
  6. Ralphie Boy

    Ralphie Boy Minister of Fire

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    White oak, the best. Good luck with that ash! Maybe if you got back 100 yards and gave it a blast with this!;lol DSC_0024.JPG
    smokinj, Redlegs, Senatormofo and 3 others like this.
  7. jrcurto

    jrcurto Member

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    Thats the type of tree that nearly killed me 3 years ago. It was hollow and had a slight lean. During the first moments of the back-cut, it barber chaired, spun, and came back at me completely opposite the lean. In a second it broke half way up, that piece could have killed me but it was the hinged piece that I dove away from. It grazed the side of my head and pounded me into the ground through my shoulder. I layed on the ground sure I was paralized or bleeding to death with every bit of wind knocked out of me. Once I felt my toes again, I crawled out of the woods. Escaped with a seperated shoulder and a concussion and some nasty gouges. The only things that saved me was turning to the left just enough to avoid having my skull crushed and my knees buckling at the moment of contact. Not to mention the running chainsaw I threw. I will never forget that day, didnt fell a tree for a year after. Also, taking rope and a strain on a tree causes compression
    and a host of other factors are at play with a hollower....

    Jim
    ScotO, andybaker and Backwoods Savage like this.
  8. basod

    basod Minister of Fire

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    That ash has barberchair written all over it.
    You can already see a split in the front right section. It appears to be under compression
    If you can tap around in side and see how much solid wood is left on the left side and right side of the other smaller opening I'd leave that as the hinge material - Drop it towards the 4oclock postion(assuming the picture is taken at 6)
    Use wedges on each side and don't tension the rope until you are clear
    ScotO likes this.
  9. Boog

    Boog Minister of Fire

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    Not so sure about that oak being white, bark looks more like red oak to me. The white oak trees around here have much wider leaves too.
    nrford likes this.
  10. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover Minister of Fire

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    Yeah, bark looks like Red but if that's the leaf it's in the White Oak group, but bark sure doesn't look like any Quercus Alba I've seen...
    Are you sure the leaf is from that tree??
  11. TimJ

    TimJ Minister of Fire

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    it's not white oak...........bark says 100% no
    nrford likes this.
  12. mywaynow

    mywaynow Minister of Fire

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    Good call on the bark peeps. Cut it into 12 ft lengths today but will have to reduce the lengths to shed wieght. The Kubota can't lift the 12 ft lengths at the diameter the tree is. The log I tried to move was the bottom section which is about 25 inches across. The main trunk was 40 ft of arrow straight wood. It was quite evident at the first cut that this was a Red. The leaf was off a limb that was tangled in the branches. We have black oak here too, which I wouldn't know if it hit me. The color was not a Red like I have seen before, but every other aspect of the grain seemed to reflect Red Oak. Not much of a root pattern on this one. It was uprooted in a recent windstorm following Sandy.

    As far as that hollow Ash went today, the limits of my efforts were to stand under it and determine that it was too windy and blowing the wrong way to even think about dropping that thing. After examining the lean and load it appears that she wants to go at 11 oclock based on the view of the pic being from 6. It will have to pass through a couple of trees that will cause it to hang or shear off some significant sized limbs. I don't think I am going to rush this one. Maybe Mother Nature will finish what she started first. Spent a good part of the day working on the double trunk Ash as well as the Red Oak today. Got the new (used) trailer loaded pretty well with rounds. Hopefully the temps drop tonight and if so, I will pull the trailer out tomorrow morning. Even though the temps never broke freezing today, it got sloppy around the work area. There is a heck of a lot coming out of these 3 trees (double trunk Ash, Red Oak and Cherry).
    basod and ScotO like this.
  13. mywaynow

    mywaynow Minister of Fire

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    Forgot to mention I counted rings on the double trunk Ash. Looks like 94 rings. Old giant.
    ScotO likes this.
  14. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Right Boog. The easy way to remember white and red oak leaves. Think of red as having 3 letters so it has points like a triangle. White has 5 letters and rather than a sharp point like the triangle, it is more rounded.

    For sure, I would not advise cutting that ash tree! Heed Scotty's advice.
    Boog and Ralphie Boy like this.
  15. Wood Duck

    Wood Duck Minister of Fire

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    Maybe this is already the consensus of the forum, but the leaf is White Oak, the bark is Red Oak.
  16. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover Minister of Fire

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    Black has got pointy lobes on the leaves, like Red, but deeper sinuses, kinda like pin. Bark is different than Red. Black is virtually the same wood as Red though, and Black Oak lumber is marketed as Red.

    On the Ash...DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! With a weak hinge, hitting branches on the way down can send that thing any which way! :eek:
  17. bogydave

    bogydave Minister of Fire

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    Smart call on the hollow ash.

    Not having a good hinge, sure makes it a dangerous tree to drop.
    One mistake & it can go any direction.
    When/if you do, be on your "A" game ;)
  18. mywaynow

    mywaynow Minister of Fire

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    Priority one will be clear escape routes. Real windy last night, gonna cross my fingers she fell.
  19. billb3

    billb3 Minister of Fire

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    leaf is white oak, but the bark just doesn't look like any white oak around here.
  20. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    That is a big 10-4.

    IF (and that is a big if) you decide to rope this off and try to drop it, get your rope set but with very little, to no tension. Make your face cut BEFORE you tension the rope.

    Zaps trick of using a pole saw might not be a bad option at this point.
    Joful likes this.
  21. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    Ditto. No shame in using a pole saw. I've posted about some real monster messes of blow down that I've tackled this year, and I didn't say it, but I used the pole saw on a few of them. No sense killing yourself...
  22. BobUrban

    BobUrban Minister of Fire

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    Not sure if it is politically correct anymore but I was taught to identify red/white oaks with cowboys and Indians with cowboys using bullets(round tip) and Indians using arrows(pointed tips) - Always worked for me. As far as the leaf/bark thing it is common for reds and whites to be next door to each other so if the leaf is not connected to the tree it is not a great identifier.
  23. Wood Duck

    Wood Duck Minister of Fire

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    The oak leaf is White Oak (Quercus alba) the wood behind the leaf is Northern Red Oak (Quercus rubra), I think. It can be tricky to ID an oak based only on a small portion of the bark, but the White Oak leaf is fairly definitive. The raised, shiny 'ski trails' on the Red Oak are distinctive and if the rest of the tree looks like the piece in the picture, then I am confident it is Red Oak.
  24. mywaynow

    mywaynow Minister of Fire

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    The pic was taken on a limb section. The log when cut, had the makeup of Red with the colored portion taking up 90% of the wood. That is what I am used to seeing on Reds. The color however, was not the red tint that Red Oaks usually exhibit in my area. The other thread shows the logs after 30 days from being cut. There is no color contrast on the ends to speak of now.
  25. thewoodlands

    thewoodlands Minister of Fire

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    My gut feeling on the Ash, I would never do it. I have some big Maples like that, mother nature can take care of those. I put one up earlier today that said once I had the winch and cable with me it was coming down, I just changed my mind.
    Backwoods Savage likes this.

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