OAK installed, good outcome.

[save$]

Well, it was a trying event, but with all the help from this forum, my OAK is safely installed and has improved the burn in my pellet stove. When I fist had this stove installed 2 yrs. Ago, the installer didn’t want to put in OAK despite my request to do so. Reading many postings on this subject, it finally dawned on me that not having OAK was like running a vacuum cleaner with the exhaust going outside. My home is tightly insulated. I tried to get an OAK kit, but none had a run long enough to get up over my cement half wall. I bought a kit and attached and added PVC to complete the connection to the outside. I posted what I had done, but received comments that my use of PVC was against code. Why take unnecessary risk? I followed another suggestion to get a piece of exhaust pipe fashioned to what I would need. I took the PVC to an exhaust shop and had them duplicate what I had. It is in and running. My fire is bigger, brighter, running on lower settings and I am getting less soot on the glass. Cost, about 60 bucks. I am going to try to include pictures, one shows the PVC and later one with the exhaust pipe. I used metal tape on the joint. If I were to do it again, I would start with the 2 in. then go to 3 in. You may not find a transition piece, but you can crimp the pipe down and tape it. 3 in pipe is available most anywhere. Longer lengths of 2 in pipe are hard to find and should only be used in short runs.
Thank you for the suggestions.

 

[exoilburner]

During my install my Dealer also discouraged installing an OAK. I have noticed in comments on other threads about dealers saying OAKs were not needed. What gives? I would think they would encourage better efficiency and better start-up in tight houses. I have read the many posts about the pros and cons of using an OAK but if the stove companies recommend installing one why don't the dealers?

 

[tundraSQ]

During my install my Dealer also discouraged installing an OAK. I have noticed in comments on other threads about dealers saying OAKs were not needed. What gives? I would think they would encourage better efficiency and better start-up in tight houses. I have read the many posts about the pros and cons of using an OAK but if the stove companies recommend installing one why don't the dealers?

I don't have an OAK so pardon my ignorance....but won't the stove be sucking in the exhaust from your stove pipe with that location of the OAK intake?

 

[imacman]

I don't have an OAK so pardon my ignorance....but won't the stove be sucking in the exhaust from your stove pipe with that location of the OAK intake?

I think if you look back up at the OP pics, the one in the upper right showing the exhaust and OAK pipes going into the wall behind the stove shows that they are about 18" apart.

That, plus the fact that the bottom picture is deceiving...it looks like the exhaust is right next to the inlet, when in fact I'll guess that it's closer to 2' away.....that should be plenty.

Maybe Save$ can give us a pic from the side, or tell us the distance they are apart.

 

[Bxpellet]

During my install my Dealer also discouraged installing an OAK. I have noticed in comments on other threads about dealers saying OAKs were not needed. What gives? I would think they would encourage better efficiency and better start-up in tight houses. I have read the many posts about the pros and cons of using an OAK but if the stove companies recommend installing one why don't the dealers?

My dealer was dead against installing the OAK, I installed after a month of burning, seems better.

 

[save$]

There are many units that come with the fresh air intake surrounding the exhaust pipe. Then there are units that the air intake is in the lower right of the wall thimble. But yes, the outside picture with the frontal view does not tell the whole story. That exhaust pipe comes out of the house about a foot and a half. Then there is a distance lower from the exhaust putting it well away from it and well withing the recommendations of the stove manufacturer. I could have put it further away, but I wanted the advantage of the the heat keeping the snow melted away. Very important not to obstruct, and Maine can have a lot of snow some years. From Napoleon:
Outside air supply must not be over 15' long.
Outside air vents must be made with 1 3/4" diameter or larger
metal or aluminum duct with a metal screen attached to the end to
keep out rodents (P.V.C. or other materials may not be used).
The outside air inlet must not be above or within 12" of the chimney
termination, must have a rain cap or down-turned elbow to
prevent the water from entering and be located so that it will not
become plugged by snow or other material.
Had I had my head screwed on right, I would have referenced this in the first place, I had a hard time rationalizing why no PVC. Once it was spelled out to me, I knew I had made a poor choice and needed to correct it. To that end, I am thankful for the direction given in this forum.

 

[geek]

save$, since you said you are now getting less soot on the glass, how "sooty" does it get afterwards ? after how many hours?

 

[jtp10181]

We do not recommend OAK on pellet stoves because we do not want to deal with people complaining about all the cold air coming in their house when they are not using the stove.

 

[save$]

We do not recommend OAK on pellet stoves because we do not want to deal with people complaining about all the cold air coming in their house when they are not using the stove.

Ouch!
Would it not be better to educate people about the cold air as a part of teaching them how to operate their stove? I don't know all the ins and outs, but perhaps that is a good opportunity to make a device that closes when air is not being drawn in. Would function in reverse of what the flapper does in a dryer vent. Might also lessen the chance of back venting when a stove shuts down due to loss of power etc. Maybe just telling them to disconnect the air intake when the stove is shut down for the season so moisture doesn't get into the stove and contribute to rust. Don't know, but I think it sure beats discouraging them from using OAK which is directly contrary to manufacturer's recommendations and lessens performance.

 

[rona]

If the outside air is installed right how do you get cold air into the room? it is supposed to go into the burn chamber of the stove.
You could make a point for using inside air as the temp of said air would be pretty constant versus outside air which can be 40 above to 30 below. If you are trying to make the stove as efficent as possible you would be adjusting to compensate for a possible 70 degree spread.
The colder air gets the more oxygen there is and the more fuel it takes to maintain the perfect mix. That is one reason for soot in mild conditions.

 

[vvvv]

If the outside air is installed right how do you get cold air into the room? it is supposed to go into the burn chamber of the stove.
You could make a point for using inside air as the temp of said air would be pretty constant versus outside air which can be 40 above to 30 below. If you are trying to make the stove as efficent as possible you would be adjusting to compensate for a possible 70 degree spread.
The colder air gets the more oxygen there is and the more fuel it takes to maintain the perfect mix. That is one reason for soot in mild conditions.

the 2 pipes make an air passage for outdoor air going thru cold pellet stove when not burning. when burning pstove has much excess combustion air unless its a Europa

 

[Bxpellet]

We do not recommend OAK on pellet stoves because we do not want to deal with people complaining about all the cold air coming in their house when they are not using the stove.

But If the stove is on how would you notice cold air coming into the house?? I remember during a Nor'easter when the rain was going sideways a little water came threw the OAK but that was once in 3 seasons

 

[vvvv]

We do not recommend OAK on pellet stoves because we do not want to deal with people complaining about all the cold air coming in their house when they are not using the stove.

But If the stove is on how would you notice cold air coming into the house?? I remember during a Nor'easter when the rain was going sideways a little water came threw the OAK but that was once in 3 seasons

it aint, air goes thru stove & cools the stove when not running.....combustion air from oak could be affected by humidity from fog, rain, or snow?

 

[MCPO]

I have to assume that any dealer that discourages an OAK is simply not being honest or professional. It really only amounts to a little extra work and cost in most installations.

 

[slvrblkk]

I have to assume that any dealer that discourages an OAK are simply not being honest or professional. It really only amounts to a little extra work and cost in most installations.

Being a roller coaster tech in my previous life, one thing you never ever do is go outside of the manufacturers recommendations due to liability issues (and other things). Now I know stoves are different but the point remains the same....if the manufacturer recommends it...you install it...period.....And quite honestly, like Gio said, how much more work is it???? In most cases it's probably the easiest part of the install......

 

[rona]

My guess is 99% of the people run their pellet stove during the winter to stay warm and that would cancell out any (cold) coming from the stove.

 

[Vinelife]

When i'm not using my stove and its cold, it just makes my stove cold...

 

[Don2222]

We do not recommend OAK on pellet stoves because we do not want to deal with people complaining about all the cold air coming in their house when they are not using the stove.
Signature

Extensive knowledge about Gas, Wood and Pellet hearth products.
Specialized in the brands: Quadrafire, Heat & Glo and Heatilator.

My OAK has a pipe with a damper in it so the outside air can be closed off when the stove is not in use. People should know about that. Dampers are easy to install.

Although since I always use the stove when it is cold, I leave the damper open.

I also added white R2 fiberglass insulation from Home Depot around the 2" flexible aluminum OAK pipe so no cold air is transferred into the room. That is also easy to do, see pic below

 

[Xena]

... disconnect the air intake when the stove is shut down for the season so moisture doesn't get into the stove and contribute to rust.

This is what I do. Disconnect and put a baggy over the pipe.

 

[Vinelife]

Don, how do you do the damper thing ??

 

[jtp10181]

The Quad units do not recommend or suggest the OAK as far as I know, it is just an optional accessory. Out of the few we have actually installed, I have disconnected one because the stove worked better without it.

Most of our customers will not fiddle with things, disconnect pipes, manual dampers, etc.... Many of our customers have gotten pellet stoves because its the "cool" or "green" thing to do, not because they need it to afford heat. Most of our coverage area is on Natural Gas, so it is cheaper to just run the furnace than buy pellets for most people.

If a customer wants to get an OAK I explain to them that when not in use it may let cold air into the house, etc.... After that most of them do not want it. I think all of last year we only installed one.

 

[rona]

It seems logical that when you are using inside air the customer is loosing two different ways.
One being he is creating a vacumn causing cold air to come in the house to replace that warm air that the stove sucked in to burn.
Two being he already spent money heating the air that the stove is taking to complete combustion.

 

[save$]

I read about OAK from general information when I was first considering a pellet stove.
Listening to the installer, well is sort of like listening to any experienced professional. You feel they know better than you do.
I gave in and listened to my installer. Big mistake on my part. Should have stuck to what the manual recommended, but then I also have to say that the installer didn't leave a manual with me. I had to get it from the Internet.
The person who did my installation gave me multiple dates. Had to come 3 times to do a simple through the wall install. cut inside and outside holes that didn't line up. (lucky for me I had extra house siding) and when I asked for an itemized list for the billing, he admitted to making a mistake and billing twice for some of the same accessories (over a $300 error) That company is still in business, although I understand some of the help has changed. My lesson learned. If an installer fails or discourages you to follow the manufactures recommendations, either choose another piece of equipment that is compliant with the installation, or choose another installer.
By the way, cold here today, but inside is toasty warm with a nice hot flame. Wish I had come to this simple fix in the first place.

 

[rona]

Just to further confuse the issue there was mention of the pipe inside a pipe system. This idea looked like it had two good advantages. There was only one hole through the wall and the cold air was prewarmed by flowing around the inner 3 inch pipe that carried the exhaust.
This sounded good and worked pretty decent if you had a straight out the back install. But as a example if you had a basement install the cold air cooled the exhaust enough that it condenses and prematurely ruins the pipe. this happened a lot when burning corn with a Bixby. The longer pipe length caused the problem. Then when that happens the exhaust is sucked into the fresh air pipes and the stove no longer runs right. You can avoid this by either using a better grade of exhaust pipe or just switch to using two seperate pipes.
I don't think pellets are as corrosive as corn but any time the exhaust gets cooled down it will leave creosote and junk in the pipes.