I have a large somewhat drafty house. Its about 3200 sq ft total upstairs and down stairs. I am going to try and put a whitfield advantage ii downstairs and a breckwell big E upstairs. Will an outside air kit make them heat more efficiently or will drawing the warm air from the room be better? Ive tried looking it up and have seen a million different things. If anyone knows let me know! Thanks!
OAK, outside air question
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Bioburner
Moderator
I believe the Whit is not a true OAK system
As you said it seems there are views both ways on OAK. I feel its better to suck cold air from outside and not use the warm inside air to blow it outside.
As you said it seems there are views both ways on OAK. I feel its better to suck cold air from outside and not use the warm inside air to blow it outside.The manual of the whitfield shows the air intakw going outside?I believe the Whit is not a true OAK system
Bioburner
Moderator
The intake just dumps into the back of the stove and room air can be taken in from around the ash bin. Often stove owners have mounted a valve on the input so when not running the cold outside air is not flowing into the room.
johneh
Minister of Fire
Every one has there own opinion .
Me I don't like the fact with out an OAK
you are using air which you have just paid
to heat going out the exhaust vent . I also
found that with an OAK there were less
drafts and the room seemed warmer .
Just my 5 cents worth .
Me I don't like the fact with out an OAK
you are using air which you have just paid
to heat going out the exhaust vent . I also
found that with an OAK there were less
drafts and the room seemed warmer .
Just my 5 cents worth .
Papelletman
Member
I prefer to use an oak for a different reason, I like the idea of giving the stove its own supply of o2, and not using mine. I have 1300sf rancher.
bogieb
Minister of Fire
Some people (like me) get cold air drafts when they don't use an OAK. so installing one, regardless of whether it improves efficiency or not, is a huge improvement. Also, an OAK can help alleviate clearance issues from the exhaust to a window or door. If you don't have either issue, then I am unsure you would notice any real pellet savings one way or another.
Unless your OAK gives you a closed system the OAK can actually create one more source for warm air escaping from your house, Either via warm air escaping out through it or by providing a intake source for other heat loss deficiencies in your structure.
Is your house so tight that when you run your dryer the stove's exhaust becomes an intake and you get smoke in the house ?
I have one on my oil boiler for these reasons:
I wanted an oak for my burner more for when it wasn't running than for when it was. To end up with a closed system.
Is your house so tight that when you run your dryer the stove's exhaust becomes an intake and you get smoke in the house ?
I have one on my oil boiler for these reasons:
I wanted an oak for my burner more for when it wasn't running than for when it was. To end up with a closed system.
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That is possible when your stove is not running but never possible when it is on and running properly. If you run the stove only occasionally, an OAK is not advised unless your house is very air tight.
If the house is drafty, as the OP writes, I don't see an OAK making a huge difference. One way to test it is to see if the house is the same amount of draftiness with the fire burning full and door open and closed down full. In my opinion, if you can install an OAK easily and see if it works better, then go for it. You could even run a temporary flexible dryer vent through a window opening with the rest of the window taped up. Sometimes OAKs are a ton of work to install and in a drafty house, I wouldn't do it. I would spend the time and money on eliminating the leaks in the house. Most threads on this forum agree that spending money on sealing drafts and insulating are the best ways of saving money. Stop leaks, save wood, save energy.
Deromax
Burning Hunk
I myself think that OAK is generally a good idea. But my stove seller/installer discouraged the OAK, stating it may cause issues because of the very cold canadian climate, and comparing to wood stoves that use none...
Agreed fix all drafts and leaks asap.my house is vary tight. So tight that there is a counter weighted fresh air device installed in the hvac system.so I decided to do a test before committing to a oak. At full burn using room air for combustion it would create enough negative pressure to trip this device. With oak installed it would not trip. With this being the outcome. It would seem that this mite be the case in a drafty house as well, sucking cold air through the leaks. DISCLAIMER==== results may vary.
Actually your "never possible" condition is pretty easy to disprove.
Find the CFM rating of your burner and set up a larger CFM rating in the opposite direction.
As with any physical tug of war the largest force wins.
It is simple physics.
To readdress the OP's original question:
Many energy conversion processes benefit from preheated air. If an efficient burn in your stove and is your only parameter then preconditioned air would be a benefit.
If by heating more efficiently you mean at the end of the day will I save any money with one system over the other - in a non-airtight home as you claim to have - and a non-closed air input and output stove - without assessing all the variable air exchange losses affecting the home's envelope - you're most likely better off without the OAK.
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Thanks for all the input. I had the whitfield upstairs without an oak and it would keep the room about 65, Im moving that downstairs, which is a smaller area to heat, and I got a breckwell big e for upstairs because it was larger. I read somewhere that without an oak if the house wasn't air tight you would draw in cold air from outside to replace the air the stove sucked in. With the big e being a larger stove i was worried without an oak it would suck in more air causing m orr cold air from outside to be sucked in. I want to try and get the room to 70 and was hoping a larger stove would help if i also added am oak
Anyone can trump in! I just want to know if I should drill a second hole in my wall or if its a waste of time
Cranky Yankee
Member
last year I had new windows, doors and siding, when I fired up my stove without an oak it sucked cold air from any place it could which pulled it thru an area I wanted heat leaving me sitting in the cold. They require a tremendous amount of air
Try installing a temporary dryer vent ($10) through a window as I suggested and see how things perform. That should tell you a lot.
The reality is that an OAK is different for each model of stove and for each application. IOW, you really don't know until you try it. I had no OAK for 30 yrs on my VC and opening a window in my air tight house made no difference BUT - I have a huge volume of air inside the house. Physics says it shouldn't matter but it does. I put one on my new stove and it works well. I works just as well when I disconnect the OAK.
Soooo . . . that's why there is such a disagreement on OAKs.
A fire burns better with fresh air which has more oxygen in it. After all, it's the oxygen that makes the fire work! If your house is full of stale air in the winter, like many are, my guess is that fresh air would be a benefit. If your house is very leaky, it shouldn't matter. If a dealer says that an OAK doesn't work well due to cold winters in just ignorant BS.
I used to know the stats on how large a hole in the wall would be equivalent to the total leaks in an average house. I've long forgotten but if you opened a window fully, it is similar. Houses are very leaky. My house was built air tight 30 yrs ago and pressure tested. In the ensuing 30 yrs, my guess is that I've got at least 4 sq ft. of new leaks from chimney, bathroom vents, mouse holes in the vapor barriers and caulking that has dried up. If you live in the country like I do, mice infest your walls and make holes everywhere. I placed poison bait bags in all the walls when we built. All that did was cause more stink for the first 5 yrs.
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Arti
Feeling the Heat
Installation manuals on some makes and models of stoves make the oak mandatory I also believe is required in mobile home installations.
An oak helps maintain a higher humidity level which up to a certain point is beneficial in the winter months. Sort of depends on the particular setup and home, some homes require humidity to be removed in the winter also drawing make up air from a crawl space or attic is also acceptable in some cases.
I think maintaining a higher humidity level would tip the scales in favor of the oak in a lot of cases.
An oak helps maintain a higher humidity level which up to a certain point is beneficial in the winter months. Sort of depends on the particular setup and home, some homes require humidity to be removed in the winter also drawing make up air from a crawl space or attic is also acceptable in some cases.
I think maintaining a higher humidity level would tip the scales in favor of the oak in a lot of cases.
Pete Zahria
Minister of Fire
When you put your hand at the end of your vent while your stove is running,
it's pretty hard to imagine that not using outside air for your stove
will have no effect on the temperature level of your home..
all that air HAS to be replaced with cold air from outside. Every bit of it.
and it runs, and runs, and runs...
Why would you leave your bathroom fan running 24/7?
(just my thought.. which we all know is sometimes less than astute)
Dan
it's pretty hard to imagine that not using outside air for your stove
will have no effect on the temperature level of your home..
all that air HAS to be replaced with cold air from outside. Every bit of it.
and it runs, and runs, and runs...
Why would you leave your bathroom fan running 24/7?
(just my thought.. which we all know is sometimes less than astute)
Dan
midfielder
Feeling the Heat
OAK - no question about it. one for each stove. Disassociate your stove's combustion circulation from the infiltration/ex-filtration dynamics of the building. You won't regret the extra work it takes to rig.
Thanks for a the help, I think Im going to install the oak on both. It shouldnt be too tough. If it doesnt work ill be back later this fall to yell at all the people who suggested it
Hahahah thanks again
Hahahah thanks again- Status
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