ilmbg said:
Sorry if I step on some toes- but...I believe the Big 3 automakers are getting their just reward. I was married to an auto worker at one time. We had many friends who worked for one or the other auto company. I am ashamed to say, that there were many of these people who bragged about going to work and sleeping all the shift- sometimes in the 'smokeatacks', in bosses office's, anywhere. They would brag about doing drugs on the job because it was such boring work. They bragged about going out at lunch/dinner and getting drunk- then not coming back to finish their shift- with nobody knowing about it- and of course getting paid a great salary while doing this!
This is the kind of worker the Big 3 has- and I don't mean just a few- they brag that nobody can do anything to them because of the Union. I knew several that would drink beer, then put the beer cans into the interiors of the car as it was being made.
I am not making this up! I was married to one of them, so I know firsthand. It is sick- pay these lazy, drunk, druggies, while our teachers are getting paid $35,00/year to try to teach the autoworkers kids. (the kids had moms and dads that were drunk/high much of the time, and now little Johnny/Susie can't learn due to learning disabilities). Registered Nurses in the hospitals around Detroit work all hours, all weekends, all Holidays to save people in Emergency Rooms, or Open Heart surgery, and get paid $20-25/hour, while the drunk autoworker gets $72 an hour! Is it any question why they are sinking? I hope they don't get bailed out by you and me...we are the ones who will pay- we will be taxed more, to save these lazy Americans? I hope not.
ilmbg, I respectfully wish to suggest that if you have stepped on some toes, then they are blind to reality. I worked in an auto plant for some time while in college. I worked with highly qualified individuals. NOT highly qualified by auto standards (well, maybe, but not originally trained as such) these people I worked with had MBAs, medical training, and Bachelors in many many things. They all left their original trades because they could make MUCH MUCH MORE in a the Ford Stamping Plant in Chicago Heights, IL. I respectfully submit the following as one piece of factual evidence that Union workers have unjustly sucked the profits from these automakers to the point that they are now belly up.
I worked on many welders and presses. ALL of which had multiple safety measures to ensure the safety of the worker. There were machines that required you to hold a button with your left hand, and another with your right hand, and then press an actuator switch with your foot. The reason for the complex methods? Safety. They found that too many workers were pressing the button with one hand while throwing a part in with their other hand and crunch, bye-bye hand.
I would like to suggest that if you need three buttons to provide you safety for something like this, then you do not have the level of training, expertise, or general smarts to earn 40+ dollars per hour.
Back during one point of my employment I was considered temp work so I earned half of what a starting Ford employee earned. At that time my hourly was about $15. That was in 1999 or so. Now that I have my masters degree and 30+ extra hours of graduate school I now earn just over 30 dollars an hour (including benefits). Granted, I have leisures that i wouldn't have if I was hourly and worked a factory schedule. I get holidays and never work weekends or weird nightly shifts.
Oh and they all whined and cried when another robot was invented to do their job. Get rid of 10 workers and replace with one to fix the robot (he, of course, would make the same as one of the original workers.) Or when a plant in america would close down and one in mexico would open up. Based on what the average mexican citizen makes our plants pay wayy more than they should down there. Good for them for doing so. it improves the standard of life for many grateful hardworking people AND they are saving millions on having to pay the greedy union workers.
I could go on and on, you get the point. Bottom line is this: pay should be directly related to several things, this is my basic list of such things, although there are likely many other things, like reliability, efficiency, etc etc.
1. Training and education to complete the job
2. Availability of people who have #1
3. Demand for the services/products produced by the employer
As a general stereotype, the average auto worker has nothing above going for them. If UAWs weren't so vicious and lifethreatening, then replacing them all with non-unionized workers would be easy. If you don't know what I'm talking about then you've never tried to cross the picket line.
I was accosted by several workers and a floor supervisor (all on separate occasions) because I drove a nissan altima. My supervisor advised me to park a mile or two away and walk into work when someone complained. Apparently the complainer was a man that I had insulted because he said to buy a real car, not a rice burner, and I told him that his Mazda smelled of burritos and salsa. When he didn't understand the insult his supervisor had to explain that his Ford Ranger was not actually American made and was a product of Mexican workers who built mazdas and fords. The man did not enjoy the insult (and I think was mad that he didn't know he owned a foreign built vehicle) so he asked me if I knew what ambulances the local hospital used. I said I didn't know and he said that they were fords and he could make sure I found out the hard way. Nice, a real scholar.
ok, ramble over, you get the idea.
That sucks. We bought a Toyota Sequoia and haven't had one problem! Not even a damp gasket anywhere!Now that is Quality in my mind.
