I just purchased it. The Lowes site says 40% off PLUS up to $400 in rebates. I'm fairly certain I just picked it up for $199.
Time will tell once I submit the rebate...
Bryan
Time will tell once I submit the rebate...
Bryan
Oil Indirect DHW - Cost Analysis Help
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BoilerMan
Minister of Fire
That was me..... I have this model. I do not think the second coil is needed unless you want to have the option to still use oil as a backup. The Oventrop indirect is made by HeatFlo out of Mass. They have ones with the electric element built in as well.
TS
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
I stopped off at the local Lowes this morning to buy a plumbing item. I went by the water heaters and there is no indication of a price lower than 1199. I didn't talk to anybody. 600 bucks, though, is a siren's call.
BoilerMan
Minister of Fire
I got my Nyletherm 1 for half of your $600.................... If the existing WH is in good condition an add-on unit HPWH is very attractive.
TS
TS
Before I start ripping apart the existing system, how would you guys recommend using the old indirect WH in conjunction with the new HPWH?
I understand the option of a preheater once I install the gasification boiler, but in the interim what is the benefit of keeping the old set-up in place?
I plan to pick up the HPWH tomorrow, pending we don't have any snow to deal with.
I understand the option of a preheater once I install the gasification boiler, but in the interim what is the benefit of keeping the old set-up in place?
I plan to pick up the HPWH tomorrow, pending we don't have any snow to deal with.
I purchased the Geospring last year for $900 from Lowes and got a $400 Utility and $300 federal rebate. So paid $200 as well. CT most offer some other rebate or form of savings or something. I have had it for about a year now and it has probably already paid itself off.
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
When I installed my electric resistance water heater, I kept the indirect heater just in case of a real long power outage, for conserving generating capacity. I also am not sure how to incorporate a pellet boiler, oil boiler, indirect, and hybrid water heater.
I had a similar setup to you. An 8-yr old Buderus heating an indirect DHW. I've been tracking my oil use, and the roughly 200 days of non-Winter were averaging 1 gal of oil a day. Just like you I was shocked.
So, a year and a half ago I got a GE Geospring from Lowes for $900. I did see that some other NE states had credits from their utilities that drove the cost to zero. I think it was Massachusetts at the time because I sent the info to a friend.
I installed it myself, but had my electrician friend come over to wire the box. He's licensed, I'm not, and the electrical panel always scares me, though I've swapped out breakers before. I pexed my GE to my old indirect DHW in serial. The cold water comes to my GE, then the heated water goes to my old DHW for storage, then off to whatever sink or tub calling for hot water. Works well, and gives me double the hot water storage.
Given the price and rebates and credits, this is one install that is a no-brainer. The payback is at most 2 years, and for some zero years.
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
I think I'm getting closer to understanding. But...how does the hot water from the geospring make the indirect hot? Just natural convection or is there a circ pump involved?
It sounds like his GeoSpring does the heating, but it's outlet feeds the indirect. Other than standby losses (and providing the the settings are tweaked properly) the indirect will never call for heat unless there is a huge demand.
I have an 80 gal Slant Fin HWT-80 indirect (glass lined steel) and a 40 gal Crown Mega-Store (stainless) indirect with a pinhole leak in the heating coil. Here are my plans:
Cold feed into the bottom of the 40 gal (cap off the bad coil).
Hot out of the top of the 40 into the bottom "cold" inlet of the 80.
Hot outlet of the 80 to a mixing valve and to the house.
Geyser HPWH sucks from the bottom (cold) side of the 40. Geyser hot outlet injects into the top of the 80, essentially back feeding the entire 120 gallons.
Why?
Summer / Shoulder:
This will give me 120 gal of DHW, all heated over a long time from the Geyser. The 40 will discharge it's volume into the inlet of the 80, effectively keeping the 80's aquastat from needing to turn on unless there is a huge draw.
If there is a huge draw and the Geyser and stored volume are not enough, the 80 will get heated from oil, if I choose to turn it on.
Winter:
Geyser will be off. Wood or oil will take care of the 80 gal. The 40 gal (stainless) won't care if it has cold well water in it.
I have an 80 gal Slant Fin HWT-80 indirect (glass lined steel) and a 40 gal Crown Mega-Store (stainless) indirect with a pinhole leak in the heating coil. Here are my plans:
Cold feed into the bottom of the 40 gal (cap off the bad coil).
Hot out of the top of the 40 into the bottom "cold" inlet of the 80.
Hot outlet of the 80 to a mixing valve and to the house.
Geyser HPWH sucks from the bottom (cold) side of the 40. Geyser hot outlet injects into the top of the 80, essentially back feeding the entire 120 gallons.
Why?
Summer / Shoulder:
This will give me 120 gal of DHW, all heated over a long time from the Geyser. The 40 will discharge it's volume into the inlet of the 80, effectively keeping the 80's aquastat from needing to turn on unless there is a huge draw.
If there is a huge draw and the Geyser and stored volume are not enough, the 80 will get heated from oil, if I choose to turn it on.
Winter:
Geyser will be off. Wood or oil will take care of the 80 gal. The 40 gal (stainless) won't care if it has cold well water in it.
Exactly as mustash stated. The indirect is additional hot water storage. The standby losses are minimal. Oh, I set the GE for 140 degrees, so that the water in the indirect storage has plenty of headroom for standby losses. Right now, my oil Buderus is still connected as it heats the bedrooms, but the Taco has never called for heating the indirect DHW. Of course that is set for 120 degrees. Basically, the end result is that I get 90 gallons of HW, instead of the 40 in my old indirect unit, or 50 in the GE. Electricity usage is exactly as predicted, about $20 more a month, or $240 a year, based upon my 14.5 cents/kwh.
So, the indirect is just a storage tank in the loop. HW is made in the GE using the heat pump setting to save electricity. When HW is called for, HW goes from the GE to replace existing HW in the indirect tank. The existing HW in the indirect tank goes off to wherever it's called for. Easypeasy. It's just like having a 90 gallon DHW that is heated by a heat pump.
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
We did the same thing with our oil-fired indirect DHW and an electric water heater, back around '83. In our case, it was more about capacity (went from 70 gal to 130 gal), and I'm not sure cost savings was ever considered a factor. Oil was cheap, then.
In any case, electric fed the oil DHW. It made for an almost continuous supply, as the two systems working in series could actually act in an on-demand function to some level, if you managed to burn thru the 130 gallon stored capacity (big house, 4 shower stalls + 1 tub).
In any case, electric fed the oil DHW. It made for an almost continuous supply, as the two systems working in series could actually act in an on-demand function to some level, if you managed to burn thru the 130 gallon stored capacity (big house, 4 shower stalls + 1 tub).
2012, I tracked the oil consumption my 40 gal. DHW used during the summer months and if I remember, it amounted to nearly $110/mo. and that was at the cost of oil 2 years ago. In 2013, I revamped my heating system to include a wood boiler. I had an 80 gallon AO smith residential electric water heater that I plumbed temporarily while revamping the oil system. Ended up costing me on average $50/mo in electricity compared to the same months during the prior year. Upon completion, My state had a $750 rebate & $300 federal rebate for a heatpump water heater install. I plumbed them in series like Joful mentions.
original 40 gallon DHW & a new 60 gallon hybrid.
original 40 gallon DHW & a new 60 gallon hybrid.
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
I tried to see what was going on with the piping but failed. It almost looked parallel to me. Is the heat pump water heater feeding the indirect?2012, I tracked the oil consumption my 40 gal. DHW used during the summer months and if I remember, it amounted to nearly $110/mo. and that was at the cost of oil 2 years ago. In 2013, I revamped my heating system to include a wood boiler. I had an 80 gallon AO smith residential electric water heater that I plumbed temporarily while revamping the oil system. Ended up costing me on average $50/mo in electricity compared to the same months during the prior year. Upon completion, My state had a $750 rebate & $300 federal rebate for a heatpump water heater install. I plumbed them in series like Joful mentions.
original 40 gallon DHW & a new 60 gallon hybrid.
It's he other way around domestic water supply goes through the indirect (which can be valved off or bypassed) to the heat pump WH. The switch on the wall disrupts the dry contacts whenever I don't want he indirect to call for hot water. I use it when operating the wood boiler solely.
I'm a bit late to this thread but I installed a Geyser HPWH 3 years ago now.
Pictures are in: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/ducting-and-geyser.108580/
Saved 1 gall of oil per day.
The most pleasant surprise was the drop in AC costs in summer.
The oil DHWH is inside the air conditioned volume of our house and so the AC had to shift the waste heat from the oil burner as well as the general house heat.
In our case, when all done, we got summer DHW for just about free and in the shoulder seasons, a barely changed overall electric bill.
Pictures are in: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/ducting-and-geyser.108580/
Saved 1 gall of oil per day.
The most pleasant surprise was the drop in AC costs in summer.
The oil DHWH is inside the air conditioned volume of our house and so the AC had to shift the waste heat from the oil burner as well as the general house heat.
In our case, when all done, we got summer DHW for just about free and in the shoulder seasons, a barely changed overall electric bill.
BoilerMan
Minister of Fire
I find my Nyletherm (Nyle makes the Geyser) costs about 10-15/month to run. Our electric rate is $0.147/kWh, and we do not conserve hot water in our family of 3.
TS
That's it you guys suck! I had my hot H2O down, 80 gal pre heated by wood furnace feeding geo spring, works great. Now I have to pipe in another tank post geo for another 40 gal of hot H2O, because its the cats a$$. Ya you suck and thanks for it. (GENIOUS)
Oh, a math ?? too. What is best having 80 gal 0f 90* H2O feeding geo, or 40 gal of 130* feeding geo.
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