Oil to pellets usage per winter

[PunKid8888]

Alright, before and after data needed from home owners heated with a pellet stove last year and Oil fired furnaces before that. This is my first year in my house so unfortunately I have no baseline of how much oil I would have burned through in a year I think it would have been 2.5 tanks or about 687gallons. using this as a baseline I am guessing a ratio of 3.43 or about 2 tons of pellets for 1.25 tanks of oil (275 per tank). I made a little calculator based on this ratio to determine which is more economical with current prices. Officially I have only heated for half a season, at the end of the year I will have a better idea.

So Oil is approximately at $2 a gallon, which means pellets would need to be 3.21 a bag or less (160 a ton) the flip side is currently the pellet price is around here $6 a bag (300 a ton) and oil would need to be $3.74 a gallon. this is all using my ratio yours might be different.

Interesting, but I wanted to get some before and after data from you guys.
oil used in gallons per winter before your stove vs. pellet usage per bag as well as any oil you use even with the pellet stove for a winter.

I know there is a million variables, and I think the more data I have the less it will matter.

Please state is you have your domestic Hot water heated by your oil fired furnace as this will probably skew the data the most.

So lets get some data flowing.

 

[sinnian]

I like Craig's method of just moving the decimal point. So if oil is at $2.00 / gal, then the same or equivalent for pellets would be $200 / ton. About 100-120 gals of oil is equivalent to one ton of pellets.

 

[lecomte38]

For me a close guess is $2.50 per gallon = $250 per ton. - I started supplementing with the oil heat last month.

 

[Heatstroke]

I don't actually have my stove installed yet. Was ordered back in July '08, finally being delivered and installed this Friday (Harman P61A). I ordered the stove from Rocky's Stove Shoppe here in Augusta. Since ordering the stove, I've spent a lot of time researching different aspects of running/maintaining pellet stoves. Last week I asked the owner of Rocky's about the cost comparison of heating with pellets vs. the cost of heating with oil. Understand that he's been in the stove business for nearly 30 years. He told me that one ton of pellets will produce about the same amount of heat as 150 gallons of oil. So if you've used 600 gallons of heating oil with no pellet use, that equates to about 4 tons of pellets with no oil usage.

Hope this makes sense.

Paul

 

[Wet1]

Sounds to me like Rocky is either using super pellets or watered down oil. Rocky's clearly in the business to sell stoves...

I use 110 to 120 gal. of oil (equals one ton of pellets) for my calculations and it has historically been very accurate.

 

[Heatstroke]

Wet1, I accept your calculations as being unbiased. Like I mentioned before, I have no experience in this area (yet), and rely on other people's experience. Thanks for your input.

 

[mcmanus]

Wet1, I accept your calculations as being unbiased. Like I mentioned before, I have no experience in this area (yet), and rely on other people's experience. Thanks for your input.

The 120 number is accepted as the correct BTU conversion. That's pretty much a matter of composition analysis and can't really be debated beyond the consistency of the raw materials. So on a pure heat basis Rocky is crazy.

Where results really vary is in how much of that heat makes it into your living space (an efficiency consideration for both the pellet stove and the specific oil burning furnace you are comparing it to - this varies both by model and by installation details.. Craig often points out that chimney inserts do poorly at this) and whether you require more or less overall heat to be comfortable without central heat.

It is pretty typical here that people place the stoves in their main living area and tolerate lower temperatures farther away from the stove than they would with central heat. Often this means upstairs bedrooms are cooler and that is sometimes a welcome change. If it is true for you, it results in the need for less overall heat generation and usage. Rocky's 150 number may be based on his customer's experience with actual usage - this is different than heat produced and not correct as a conversion, but it is hardly irrelevant as a predictor of how many pellets you will need.

This is my first full year with the stove, so I've been very curious about how much pellet fuel I would need for my situation, it seems enough the year has now gone by to make a projection.

My central heating system always tests pretty well in terms of efficiency (around 80%), but it has a long FHW loop that heats all the wrong places hottest. I used 1100 gallons of oil last year. Assuming we are 40% of the way through the heating load now, I am projected to use about 200 gallons of oil (DHW and a little supplemental oil for the kitchen heat and the main house when we get below about 12) plus about 6 tons of pellets. degreedays.net suggests the temps this year have been just a touch warmer than last, but close enough to make year to year comparisons. To be fair over that time I have made some progress on caulking windows, outlets, sealing foundation gaps, etc.. but I haven't taken on any major projects like insulating walls/ceiling or updating windows.

That all works out to a projected "150 gallon/ton" equivalent for my situation. Viewed that way, rocky isn't so crazy quoting 150.

And to be clear, I'm actually more comfortable than before - it is generally 68 or 69 in my office and the living room where we spend most of our time, compared to 65 or 66 last year. Plus there is a very warm spot in front of the stove for the dog . On the down side there is significant effort expended on maintenance and the noise of a few fans that would not be necessary with the central heat. It's worth it to me.

Your mileage will vary.

 

[PunKid8888]

ok cool lets keep with the data and skip the opinions. obviously everyones house and heating systems are different but the more data we get the more accurate an average we can get.

So I am guessing a 170 gallons/ton
Rocky is saying 150galllon/ton
Wet1 is saying 120gallon/ton
Patrick is also at 150gallons/ton


Come on some more people must remember there winter oil usage and now pellet usage. Don't tell me I'm the only geek that loves data

 

[camdids]

Look I know I've had a few by now, but since I've been on the forum I've lost track of how many poeple have tried to analise and Statistise how to compare the cost of heating with This and That and those.
You can add this and take away that, Some have made it simple. I know that so far, I havent had an Oil delivery for three months.That Usualy, by this time would have cost me around ( at current rates of $215 a gallon) about $645. I have used ,$450 of Pellet fuel. I know you could add on electricity and The cost of my labor and all the other things, but thats stilo a saving.
Also I know how much pleasure my stove gives me with its Warm and Can be very Hot glow all through the day and Night.
Statistics I dont need. Its not why I bought the Stove.
Besides, give it a while and you wont be thinking Numbers anymore.

 

[BadDad320]

Without putting my math out here I will say that for me..... with my personal variables........ one ton of pellets equals 123 gallons hho........

 

[Doocrew]

I look at it in a more practical sense. My former oil company offered pre-buys in July. If I were to have followed my 20 year tradition of pre-buying oil, I would have purchased 900 gallons of oil @4.20 a gallon, which would have cost $3780. Of course at that time, no one had any idea petroleum products were going to nosedive. In over 20 years, I always came out ahead with pre-buy. Instead, I took a chance and bought a new pellet stove for $2000, plus 3 tons of pellets at $239 per ton. It looks like I will be 1-2 tons short, so if I buy 2 more ton at todays $300 price, my total heating cost for this year will be $3317 using pellets. The way I see it is that I am still ahead of the game. Next year will be a whole different story depending on what the price of oil does. If it goes back up, I will burn pellets in my free stove. If not, I will burn oil.

 

[webbie]

Come on some more people must remember there winter oil usage and now pellet usage. Don't tell me I'm the only geek that loves data

If you want data, that is simply the BTU's in the fuel x the efficiency.

On a "liberal" basis, it works out to 120 gallons per ton.
On a more realistic basis, it is about 100 gallons to the ton.

period.

All the other "data" you are requesting is not data, but either sales pitch, placebo, short experience or opinion.

As you say, there are so many factors...the biggest being that people are using a space heater. But, as I have always told people, you can get gas or oil space heaters also. So, give then, the only fair comparison is by BTU.

Another big missing piece of data is the exact efficiency of these appliances in actual home use. No one has ever tested this. My advice is to use 10% less than what you guess for oil. For instance, if you use 80% for Oil, use 70 for Pellets.

Also, do not use the "bone dry" BTU for wood. Pellets must be adjusted for moisture content (as must fire wood), so always be conservative and use a lower figure. Bottom line, use 5,000 BTU OUTPUT per lb of pellets.

Given 110,000 BTU output per gal of oil....that would take 22 lbs of pellets.
So, 100 gallons of oil in this case, 110,000,000 BTU OUT, would take 2200 lbs of pellets to match.

See where 100 gallons is the right figure???

 

[PunKid8888]

Come on some more people must remember there winter oil usage and now pellet usage. Don't tell me I'm the only geek that loves data

If you want data, that is simply the BTU's in the fuel x the efficiency.

On a "liberal" basis, it works out to 120 gallons per ton.
On a more realistic basis, it is about 100 gallons to the ton.

period.

All the other "data" you are requesting is not data, but either sales pitch, placebo, short experience or opinion.

As you say, there are so many factors...the biggest being that people are using a space heater. But, as I have always told people, you can get gas or oil space heaters also. So, give then, the only fair comparison is by BTU.

Another big missing piece of data is the exact efficiency of these appliances in actual home use. No one has ever tested this. My advice is to use 10% less than what you guess for oil. For instance, if you use 80% for Oil, use 70 for Pellets.

Also, do not use the "bone dry" BTU for wood. Pellets must be adjusted for moisture content (as must fire wood), so always be conservative and use a lower figure. Bottom line, use 5,000 BTU OUTPUT per lb of pellets.

Given 110,000 BTU output per gal of oil....that would take 22 lbs of pellets.
So, 100 gallons of oil in this case, 110,000,000 BTU OUT, would take 2200 lbs of pellets to match.

See where 100 gallons is the right figure???

that is exactly why I don't care about BTUs because there is so many variables. Even if you had the same BTUs and Efficiency from your furnace and your pellet stove it would not heat the same because the furnace has an elaborate ducting system to distribute the air evenly. You guys are over analyzing this simple data collection.

ALL I AM LOOKING FOR IS REAL DATA, HOW MUCH OIL DID YOU USE BEFORE, AND HOW MUCH PELLETS & OIL YOU USE NOW.

If you don't think this an accurate approach that's fine cool. but I am really asking for just straight up data.

 

[sinnian]

If you want data, that is simply the BTU's in the fuel x the efficiency.

On a "liberal" basis, it works out to 120 gallons per ton.
On a more realistic basis, it is about 100 gallons to the ton.

period.

All the other "data" you are requesting is not data, but either sales pitch, placebo, short experience or opinion.

As you say, there are so many factors...the biggest being that people are using a space heater. But, as I have always told people, you can get gas or oil space heaters also. So, give then, the only fair comparison is by BTU.

Another big missing piece of data is the exact efficiency of these appliances in actual home use. No one has ever tested this. My advice is to use 10% less than what you guess for oil. For instance, if you use 80% for Oil, use 70 for Pellets.

Also, do not use the "bone dry" BTU for wood. Pellets must be adjusted for moisture content (as must fire wood), so always be conservative and use a lower figure. Bottom line, use 5,000 BTU OUTPUT per lb of pellets.

Given 110,000 BTU output per gal of oil....that would take 22 lbs of pellets.
So, 100 gallons of oil in this case, 110,000,000 BTU OUT, would take 2200 lbs of pellets to match.

See where 100 gallons is the right figure???

I endorse this method of thinking, BUT I have a pellet boiler which I use for my DHW too and in this regard will give the edge to the pellet boiler for efficiency over the oil burner for same DHW. Only time will tell, but I figure in the middle of Craig's figures at 110 lbs = 100 gals of oil. Historically I use about 800 gals of oil for the entire year, and figure about 100+ gals of that was to maintain my DHW temperature during the shoulder season. So figuring about 700 gals of oil for the heating season I bought 6 tons and an electric hot water heater for the shoulder season. Depending on how March/April are this year in Maine I may need to pick up another ton, but by that time hopefully we will see a drop in pellet prices anyway. Financially............ I try not to think about it. Back last spring/early summer when pre-buy and budget prices were approaching $5.00 per gallon I was looking at a 3.5 - 4 year pay back period. Now it is more like 12. Emotionally and financially I was prepared for that, I just did not think it would have ever happened. When we were making the decision to buy the pellet boiler, my wife and I even joked that oil could come down to $2.00 per gal (currently $1.879, was $1.829, so it is going back up), however we still went ahead with the purchase wanting to be carbon neutral with our burner source.

 

[Wet1]

ALL I AM LOOKING FOR IS REAL DATA, HOW MUCH OIL DID YOU USE BEFORE, AND HOW MUCH PELLETS & OIL YOU USE NOW.

If you don't think this an accurate approach that's fine cool. but I am really asking for just straight up data.

My real life experience over the past 8 years has shown it has been exactly where I said it should be... between 110 and 120 gal of oil is equal to 1 ton of pellets. Year after year it has proven true heating my entire living area. As Web has said, you have to look at it on a pure BTU to BTU basis. If you want to not heat part of your house using a space heater (or even a zoned central heating system), you can use less total fuel, there's no arguing that. If you want to heat the entire house with the stove to the same average temp as you are with the central heating system, the BTU numbers don't lie... you can't defy the laws of physics and thermodynamics.

So when people say they are saving a lot of money burning pellets (assuming pellet and oil prices are on par), they most likely aren't lying, but they aren't telling the entire story either. There's nothing wrong with heating a smaller portion of your house, in fact it's a good thing and it will save money whether its done using zones or space heaters, but lets not distort the picture by comparing apples to oranges.

There are some loses in central heating systems, but most stoves aren't as efficient as many would have people believe either, and as Web also stated, you also have to consider the real quality of the pellet fuel as well. This will vary from system to system, but on average I think they tend to be fairly comparable.

Then again, this has been beaten to death at this point and I'm not sure why any of us are wasting our time discussing it further... On that note, I've given my 2 cents so I'm done.

 

[BadDad320]

Let me re-phrase my personal observation....... for me one ton of pellets "REPLACES" 123 gallons of HHO....... Or to state it another way burning one ton of pellets causes me not to burn 123 gallons of HHO.............. BTU's to BTU's ????? I got no clue.... I "feel" warmer with heating pellets .....

 

[JBlank912]

I am on automatic oil delivery but they are basing it on last years (prestove) usage. They have filled me twice: 49 gal instead of 225 gal and 68 gal instead of 225 gal. Thats an oil savings of 333gal. I locked in my oil price unfortunetly at $3.59 a gal. Thats $1195.47 I would have spent addtionally on oil. At the same time I use 2 tons of pellets, cost $500. Thats a savings of $695.47 . Yes you can add the extra work but then you also need to subtract the extra comfort. The room that I have the stove in was always a hard room to heat, cathedral ceiling with many windows and sliding glass door. Now its comfortably warm -74deg rather then 68. Just my first year experience.

 

[webbie]

I only take issue with the word "geek and data".

I think what is being asked for is short term experience without all the proper variables.

My concern is ONLY that folks don't get misled by such stories. We have already had a number of posts this year from folks either burning more pellet than they thought, or not being as warm as they thought. Why? Well, in most cases because the "data" they used was what their neighbor or the stove dealer told them.

No problem with collecting stories, experience and opinions......but we cannot assume people know all the variables involved, so data might not be the way I would describe it.

 

[mnoack]

my ratio, subtracting out the oil I still use for hot water is about 125 gallons of oil to 1 ton of pellets, but I heat the house about 3 degrees higher with the pellets than I would with oil, & going from 68 to 71 with oil would increase oil use considerably.

mark

 

[davevassar]

Before my pellet stove was installed, I burned 100 gallons of oil per month keeping my house around 69 degrees.

With it installed, I burn about 25 gallons per month and the house is around 72-73 degrees. I'll keep burning more pellets then oil just for the comfort and warmth.

 

[PunKid8888]

Before my pellet stove was installed, I burned 100 gallons of oil per month keeping my house around 69 degrees.

With it installed, I burn about 25 gallons per month and the house is around 72-73 degrees. I'll keep burning more pellets then oil just for the comfort and warmth.

How many bags of pellets are you burning a month?

 

[thephotohound]

So I guess I'll step in and complicate things further... I have a 15 year old Burnham oil fired boiler that feeds my FHW system, but also supplies my hot water needs for showers, etc. I bought my pellets at $200/ton. I am heating 1,000 SF (finished basement) in an average insulated home. For the record, I have a wood stove that heats the main level quite nicely. With oil in Central MA at $2.15/gal, oil is actually about $1.00/MM Btu cheaper than pellets. I have anough pellets to finish the year out, but with oil as cheap as it is, and the fact that the boiler already supplies my hot water, I would assume oil would be even cheaper than the $1.00/MM Btu difference that the calculator spits out. Assuming 72-75% efficiency on the boiler, what should I do?

 

[sinnian]

I would agree, though not being 'green', but may save you "green".

 

[UglyTunaSaloona]

My $.02 on oil vs. pellets (last paragraph) from another reply that I posted:

Here in NJ pellet prices dropping only slightly. I had my stove installed in October. I bought a ton of AWF pellets at the time for $280. I bought a ton of Energex for $320 the Friday after Thanksgiving and I bought my 3rd ton. a ton of AWF this past monday for $298. I haven’t really shopped for pellets but opt for the convenience of buying from the dealer where I bought my stove. They’re only 5 miles from my house. Their lot was filled with pellets, so no problem with availability but they only sell to you if you bought your stove from them. I happen to think that policy s*cks but I’m not complaining since I have not had a problem getting pellets on demand. I only have room for 1 -1 1/2 tons in my garage so I’ll probably never join the “pellet pigs”. On another note the local HD had rocky mountain pellets for $6.99 a bag, no discount for volume buying and the local Sears hardware had Lignetics for $7.99 a bag, I didn’t check on bulk price.

On another note, I just had an automatic oil delivery last thursday (01/08/2009). I only needed 91 gallons at $2.63/gal from 10/15/2008. I dug out my oil bills from last year and I used 198 gallons of oil at 3.30/gal from 11/17/2007 through 01/13/2008. I’m impressed with the reduction in oil usage. I haven’t done the math (including factoring in the cost of the stove) but I figure that I’m behind burning the pellets this year but will probably save money in the long run as the price of oil continues to climb.

 

[lessoil]

My $.02 also....
Because of the changing prices, more insulation, some new doors I have been looking only at the amount of oil
we are using this year vs last year and the year before.
Last year we used 700 gal and the year before 900 gals.
Oct to Jan this year we have used about 100 gal.
I am expecting to use around 300 gal for the year. (Hot water and small amount of heat in basement)
So....our savings are shaping up to be 400-500 gal of oil per year.
We will probably use up the 4 tons if this deep freeze continues.
ROI on the stove???? Time will tell....