Ok, so you have given the oil and propane guy the boot what is next?

[SmokeyTheBear]

Just what the title says.

I'm looking at reducing my pellet consumption and would like to put the water heating cost on a diet.

I've been looking over the stuff on a couple of web sites and have begun assembling materials for a couple of summer projects.

Mrs.Bear made a tactical blunder this morning and asked if I wanted to go to town with her.

That led to a stop at Lowes and the next thing you know I had some stuff to do yard work, take care of a couple of maintenance items, and the second installment of parts for my interior storm window project.

My goal is to get my pellet consumption to 3 or fewer tons a season, anything that helps in the AC department is a bonus. Going for low cost no cost things (payback less than a year if possible).

 

[heat seeker]

I'd like to find an inexpensive, effective way to preheat my well water. That water is COLD coming out of the ground! The solar heaters I've looked at run into the many thousands of dollars, which means a really long (if ever) payback.
My oil usage has dropped dramatically since my pellet stove arrived, and I'd like to reduce it even more. The majority of our usage now is for heating water. I've thought of putting fins on the basement pipes - wonder how effective that would be?

 

[Delta-T]

a bit of aluminized mylar (emergency blanket) over the south facing windows can certainly reduce solar heat gain (light reflective) and has the added bonus of being highly reflective to thermal radiation...win-win and inexpensive....though it sounds like a potato chip bag in the wind.

 

[silverfox103]

I like a guy that is always thinking ahead (Smokey).

I figured out the oilman game. He hasn't been here in a year. I am now dependent on pellets. As for hot water, we have the cheapest electric rates in NH. A couple of years ago I shut off the hot water from the boiler and added an electric water heater. Being an electrician, I may put a timer on the H20 heater. This past year I bought a 2nd pellet stove and a generator. The second stove worked great and haven't had to use the generator yet; but I am prepared.

I have a 2 car under garage, with the kitchen above it. I just got through insulating the garage ceiling. I tightened up the garage doors. I also just had the boiler system rezoned, just in case I have to turn it on for a short time. I now have the house divided into thirds, which with it's layout makes sense. I also had the plumber replace any gizmo's on the boiler that can fail and have not been replaced for a while.

My wife is the office manager for a company that sells insulated shades, so over the last couple of years every window has an insulated shade. That made a big of difference than anything we have done. Well worth it, especially when she got them at cost. I also in the last month foam / caulked any air holes.

One of our bathrooms is a long distance from the hot water heater. I was down to HD and noticed hot water heaters that are made for small applications (there is no shower, just a sink). So, I might install one of those. I would like to someday, install a homemade solar hot water panels to feed the H2O heater. Not sure this is the year for that.

But my biggest job this offseason, is to clean the cellar and throw away junk. I find that the best time to do that is when the Mrs. is not home. I'm sure we all can appreciate that.


Tom C.

 

[tjnamtiw]

I like a guy that is always thinking ahead (Smokey).

My wife is the office manager for a company that sells insulated shades, so over the last couple of years every window has an insulated shade. That made a big of difference than anything we have done. Well worth it, especially when she got them at cost. I also in the last month foam / caulked any air holes.

One of our bathrooms is a long distance from the hot water heater. I was down to HD and noticed hot water heaters that are made for small applications (there is no shower, just a sink). So, I might install one of those. I would like to someday, install a homemade solar hot water panels to feed the H2O heater. Not sure this is the year for that.

Tom C.

We also discovered that insulated shades work both summer and winter! Just have to remember to put them down!

I also have a kitchen that takes a long time to get hot water and thought about one of those recirculating little pumps to keep warm water in the lines. Not sure how cost effective it is, BUT it would sure cut down the 'STATIC', if you know what I mean! As for an instant water heater, that would take a separate breaker, I'm sure, and I'm not ready to send an electrician's kid to college! Well, maybe college but not HARVARD!

 

[mr coffee]

I'd like to find an inexpensive, effective way to preheat my well water. That water is COLD coming out of the ground! The solar heaters I've looked at run into the many thousands of dollars, which means a really long (if ever) payback.
My oil usage has dropped dramatically since my pellet stove arrived, and I'd like to reduce it even more. The majority of our usage now is for heating water. I've thought of putting fins on the basement pipes - wonder how effective that would be?

in the old school days you would install a "tempering tank" which while setting would pickup room temperature (or more if you installed it over your wood stove... ) my service tech's wold strip old glass line water heaters of their shells and plug the extra outlets and sell them for beer money (genesee cream ale back in the days also)

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Mrs. Bear made some insulated roman blinds for our bedroom, they work fine for night time not good for natural light during the day. I have to be careful because she does the quilting thing and complains about light type(color) and strength. I did manage to get all of the lights in the house except for three over to fluorescent shortly after we moved in here.

She also made insulated drapes for the sliding glass door leading to our deck, once again fine at night not so good during the day.

The interior storms are going to be made following the instructions here: .http://www.arttec.net/Thermal-Windows/index.html . I have 18 sections to make.

As I said in an other thread I keep looking at electrical rates and such hoping to replace the Dino juice water heating system, but I'm not happy with what will result at this time.

I also am looking at a solar powered domestic hot water heating system based upon both a collector and tank that hearth.com member GaryGary who is the author of http://www.builditsolar.com/index.htm has come up with.

I'm also toying with the idea of some solar air heaters (non storage) links to which are on Gary's site.

I will be moving some pellet stacks later this spring to tighten up the garage and insulate some water lines.

It also dawned on me today that the gravity floor drain could be one of the bigger air infiltration places we have. So I think an elastic band and a plastic bag might be in order. The drain isn't likely to be needed and the pressure behind the plastic bag should cause it to be freed from the end of the pipe if it is needed.

 

[bbfarm]

I have been researching air turbines for years and would love to install one someday. We have wind here almost all the time. unfourtunately they are out of our price range right now.

 

[silverfox103]

As for an instant water heater, that would take a separate breaker, I'm sure

Actually, the one that I saw at HD, you plug it in to a regular outlet. I wouldn't call it an instant hot water heater, it has a small tank. I think it was rectangular. I believe the price was around $225. In my case, the half bath is in my daughter's room. I could put it on a switch, so when she is home from school, I turn it on. As for a kitchen, I'm sure it would be OK for supplying the sink. Not sure how it would work with a dishwasher, but some heat there own water.

Tom C.

 

[ChrisWNY]

I've checked into wind turbines myself. I live in an area that regularly has lots of wind being directly NE of Lake Erie. There are quite a few gov't incentives for investing in wind energy, but there is still a high up-front cost and even after reimbursement a wind turbine is still a huge expense. Hooking into the grid via a power inverter is the best bet, recovering the cost in electric energy savings involves many years.

 

[tjnamtiw]

It also dawned on me today that the gravity floor drain could be one of the bigger air infiltration places we have. So I think an elastic band and a plastic bag might be in order. The drain isn't likely to be needed and the pressure behind the plastic bag should cause it to be freed from the end of the pipe if it is needed.

That should have a trap on it, Smokey. When I lived in Chicago, they came around and pumped smoke into the sewer system and then waited to see who came running out of their house! ha ha I used to put a cup of water down there every few weeks when I started to smell sewer gas.

 

[heat seeker]

in the old school days you would install a "tempering tank" which while setting would pickup room temperature (or more if you installed it over your wood stove... ) my service tech's wold strip old glass line water heaters of their shells and plug the extra outlets and sell them for beer money (genesee cream ale back in the days also)

That's a good idea! And that's something I could do myself - after I find a tank. I could use the pressure tank more effectively, if I can figure out a way for it to transfer heat better. It holds about 30 gallons, and preheating even that much would be great. Maybe a small fan blowing air around the tank...

 

[tjnamtiw]

I've checked into wind turbines myself. I live in an area that regularly has lots of wind being directly NE of Lake Erie. There are quite a few gov't incentives for investing in wind energy, but there is still a high up-front cost and even after reimbursement a wind turbine is still a huge expense. Hooking into the grid via a power inverter is the best bet, recovering the cost in electric energy savings involves many years.

Yea, it's a slow payback. One problem several people had with wind generators back up in Pa were the f'ing neighbors! Oh, the noise kept them up all night even when it was calm. groan, groan, groan until the county finally made them shut down. I hope there are better protection laws now in place to limit such BS complaining. Like maybe so many dB at 50 feet or something like that.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Actually, the one that I saw at HD, you plug it in to a regular outlet. I wouldn't call it an instant hot water heater, it has a small tank. I think it was rectangular. I believe the price was around $225. In my case, the half bath is in my daughter's room. I could put it on a switch, so when she is home from school, I turn it on. As for a kitchen, I'm sure it would be OK for supplying the sink. Not sure how it would work with a dishwasher, but some heat there own water.

Tom C.

I just looked at some made by Bosch that are 2 1/2, 4, or 6 gallon. The drawback is how many people have an outlet under their sink? I could put a box in line with the dishwasher but the heaters draw 1500 watts by themselves. Darn! Sounds like some quality time in the crawl space tracing less used branches if I go that route. It sure sounds good though. Oh, the 4 gallon Bosch on Amazon was $169.

 

[save$]

I second the idea for a tempering tank. Even better if you have well water.
When I used to burn wood, we had a collar on the stove vent that connected to my electric hot water heater. Water was so hot it offer blew off (I kept a pail under the release pipe). With an insulated wrap on the heater, our hot water was the most reasonable cost ever. I also added a solar greenhouse. When I kept water barrels in there, the inside temps never went below freezing. The daytime temps would get up to the 80's even in the dead of winter on sunny days. We now have an oil fired hot water heater that only sips oil. I'll go all summer and that oil gage will only move about an eight off an inch.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

That should have a trap on it, Smokey. When I lived in Chicago, they came around and pumped smoke into the sewer system and then waited to see who came running out of their house! ha ha I used to put a cup of water down there every few weeks when I started to smell sewer gas.

I'll find out if there is a trap but this isn't connected to any sewer system it is a sump pump less gravity drain. The end of the drain is painted blue and is exposed outside, it ends over a rock.

 

[DexterDay]

There are several windows that we kept plastic shrink kits up over the Summer (Winter is when they are ALL done). And noticed improved gains in Cooling with A/C.

In the Winter we leave the Blinds Wide open on the South Side (Front of house) and close all of them on the North (back). Have insulating blinds in about half of them.. tmThe Solar gain in the Winter helps dramatically. I have measured our carpet (very light creme color, almost white) at 120°… There are over a half dozen windows on the front of the house alone. Summer time we Close ALL blinds...

Since reading a link you posted Smokey, I am intrigued with those Window kits. Made with plastic and light framing ( 2x2 or 1x2). Gonna look into those. Im tired of the plastic. We have new windows and this still helps tremendously. So to have a removable option would be very nice. We burned 4.5 ton last year. Only 2 ton this yr (about 3 cord of wood, but I was burning the 1st week of Oct when temps were in the 60's at night, new toy, burned way more than I should have. But thats learning).

Interested in where this goes and what viable (cheap) options are suggested and what you go with.... Cheers.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I have a bit of an issue siting wise for using the roof for any real amount of solar. House is the wrong way on the lot and those nice tall evergreens are a bit too close. Therefore I'm going whole hog on sealing and insulation.

The last couple of months was the first that I used a t-stat on the stove so I had been using more pellets than was needed.

Dexter one of the things that I liked about those interior storms was that they were actually a double pane version as opposed to the normal use of shrink wrap windows. I'm also going to make a set for the glass in my entry doors, instead of going inside the window casing these will go over the glass and mount against the door using those command control pull to release adhesive strips (I hope). I just have to make two frames for each door to get the spacing.

 

[DexterDay]

Sounds good..... Im looking forward to your progress over the Summer.

 

[smoke show]

Sounds good..... Im looking forward to your progress over the Summer.

Smokey, I'd like to see some pics of these interior storms. I have some windows I'd like to try those on, but the windows are 72"w 54"h.

Remember no pics ???

 

[DexterDay]

There was a link he had that I should have saved as a Bookmark.

They are pretty slick. . .

 

[smoke show]

There was a link he had that I should have saved as a Bookmark.

They are pretty slick. . .

I seen the link about construction of them. I did not see any of STB's built and installed.

 

[h2ochild]

Good stuff here Mr Bear. We have for two years now used the bubble wrap trick on non viewing windows found at the previously posted solarit site you mentioned. It is a big help even on these decent Andersen dual panes we have. This, coupled with insulated curtains that the wonderful lady from Mass. modified to fit every window, has helped reduce the heat loss and gain. I insulated all the piping from the exit side of the electric hot water heater for DHW, and put a blanket on it..saw that make a 5$ bill drop off the electric. Please keep us appraised of your progress and thanx for the link.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Smokey, I'd like to see some pics of these interior storms. I have some windows I'd like to try those on, but the windows are 72"w 54"h.

Remember no pics ???

Yeah smoke I know about the picture thing. I have three windows and the patio slider that will be done in two sections so when I get one done I'll snap a picture.

This will be in the DIY forum, the reason I started here is to find out what my fellow pellet combusters are doing to continue lowering their fuel bill and to free up their time working for the stove.

At the moment I've just collected a lot of the material I need and have a cutting list for 15 of the panels. Still waiting on garage space to be free, I thought I had it when Mrs. Bear put the car outside but I had to put a small green house together for her and that is now in the middle of the garage waiting to go out. At this rate maybe next year (heck things seem to go slow when you have competing stuff going on).

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I second the idea for a tempering tank. Even better if you have well water.
When I used to burn wood, we had a collar on the stove vent that connected to my electric hot water heater. Water was so hot it offer blew off (I kept a pail under the release pipe). With an insulated wrap on the heater, our hot water was the most reasonable cost ever. I also added a solar greenhouse. When I kept water barrels in there, the inside temps never went below freezing. The daytime temps would get up to the 80's even in the dead of winter on sunny days. We now have an oil fired hot water heater that only sips oil. I'll go all summer and that oil gage will only move about an eight off an inch.

I hear you on the tempering and even more on the cold well water.

For a tempering idea look at a storage tank and a solar collector via a bit of scrounging you might put together a functional system at a reasonable cost, then a whole house or multiple point of use electric tank less might be able to do the job without having to upgrade your electrical panel and run a pile of heavy wire for the larger units. The smaller units can't provide the required temperature rise under a certain cold inlet water temperature.

If you have a federal income tax load you can shave then look at a partial commercial/diy system there is a 30% (non refundable I believe) tax credit.

I'm also trying to decrease electrical load, I want to go below 400 KWh per month on average and am currently at 443 KWh per month.