Ok, what do I need to make my saw cut better?

[nola mike]

That chain costs almost as much as I pay to have my Stihl chains sharpened.

Congratulations?

 

[DUMF]

How about the pferd v. Granberg?

No choice. I'm beating this dead horse....again. The Grandberg is an older clamp-on device that WAS OK in its time.
Ignore those who haven't tried the Pferd (s) out. It is better than _______.
All pro chains have witness lines on top of the cutters. Here are the K.I.S.S. instructions:
1. Buy the correct Pferd for your bar/chain specs ( ~ +/- $25. ) at your local dealer or Baileys.
2. Read the well done docs with the Pferd ( it is German, not IN German ).
3. Clamp the bar, and mark your chain so you don't repeat strokes.
4. Angle the Pferd with the witness line on top of the chain and count the strokes on both sides of the bar.
5. Check that the cutting edge does not reflect light. You are now good to go.
Then thank Sean and me

 

[Dairyman]

How about the pferd v. Granberg?

The pferd will give you a sharp chain with set rakers quickly. Some have reported that it takes the rakers down a little to far & makes the chain grabby. You'll have to buy one for each chain size though.

The granberg will give perfect repeatable angles. It will let you try different angles for faster cutting or a longer lasting edge. And will work on all sizes of chain with just a file swap.

 

[Jon1270]

At home I use an electric chain grinder for significant remedial work and to take rakers down. In the field I use a Husqvarna roller guide for touch-ups. It's a combination that works for me.

 

[DUMF]

At home I use an electric chain grinder for significant remedial work and to take rakers down. In the field I use a Husqvarna roller guide for touch-ups. It's a combination that works for me.

Just say "no" to home electric grinders. We did use that Husky roller for years ( it WAS an excellent hand sharpener that did only the edge, not rakers), until, until a pro logger friend showed me truth, the light, the absolute revelation of the Pferd systems. I do believe.
Only pro dealers with experienced techs, or pro loggers who NEED to grind, can safely use those electric grinders. They can too easily in the wrong hands --me and most of you --ruin by 'burning' or getting the wrong angles or size on those grinders. The set up for the few sizes of chains on multiple saws takes too long for my ale. All of us have a few saws in our pack.
Hey, I can sharpen close to as fast hand sharpening with the wondrous Pferds as you with those electric grinding monsters. Where do you plug them in in the field ? The Husky roller OR Pferd should be in your woods kit bubba.
The above is fact. Am I now being obnoxious ?

 

[jetsam]

Or you could take a file into the woods, and use a granberg to touch up your mistakes later.

I may check out that pferd thingy though, sounds interesting. From a quick peruse, it doesn't appear to have a way to keep cutter lengths consistent? (If that's so, it could replace the file, but not the granberg.)

 

[Jon1270]

Just say "no" to home electric grinders. We did use that Husky roller for years ( it WAS an excellent hand sharpener that did only the edge, not rakers), until, until a pro logger friend showed me truth, the light, the absolute revelation of the Pferd systems. I do believe.
Only pro dealers with experienced techs, or pro loggers who NEED to grind, can safely use those electric grinders. They can too easily in the wrong hands --me and most of you --ruin by 'burning' or getting the wrong angles or size on those grinders. The set up for the few sizes of chains on multiple saws takes too long for my ale. All of us have a few saws in our pack.
Hey, I can sharpen close to as fast hand sharpening with the wondrous Pferds as you with those electric grinding monsters. Where do you plug them in in the field ? The Husky roller OR Pferd should be in your woods kit bubba.
The above is fact. Am I now being obnoxious ?

Dude, you're talking well past the limits of what you actually know. Give it a rest.

 

[FaithfulWoodsman]

I haven't read all the posts on this thread.....so I don't know if anyone has mentioned the Granberg precision grinder. It's their hand grinder mounted to their bar mount system from the original "file N joint". It takes a bit of practice to get really proficient and accurate on both sides with it, but it gives me better results than paying the local stihl shop. Hooks up to 12v batt. A regular re-sharpen takes only 5-10 minutes and is pro sharp. Like most I touch up with a hand file in the field.

 

[woodhog73]

Just say "no" to home electric grinders.

Only pro dealers with experienced techs, or pro loggers who NEED to grind, can safely use those electric grinders.

My same buddy who never uses his 2 in 1 in the field ( let's not go over that again I believe it works I'll even try one someday ) also has an electric grinder in the shop. It sharpens awesome every time. It's not mine but I know it works. I'd love to have a grinder of my own. But I don't . If I did I would make use of it.

And no I'm not a pro. that's a subjective term really. Pro ? I've cut with all skill levels. The dairy farmer down the road from me has 500 acres of which 200 acres have been put into forestry management. He is 65 years old and is logging his own land for profit ( along with his 3 sons) at that age and I don't think he would call himself a " pro" but he is probably the most skilled hand feller I have ever cut with. He's been heating is home and farm with wood for years and years. I still look up to him. Friends with the family and help out from time to time. Don't ask him what a 2 in 1 tool is cause I doubt he knows.

I've done tree service work before, and have put probably more than 150 trees on the ground this year alone based on memory etc. Close to half on my land or my family's acreage. The rest helping out for part time income or friends. Not really sure what a certified " pro " is ( opinions vary on skill level and physical stamina in the woods yes stamina is important time is money).....

but I'm certainly well seasoned and I know 2 facts.... 1) Hand filing without a guide is fine if your good at it. Been doing it that way for 25 years then some. 5 minutes and a sharp file and chips are flying again.

2) An electric grinder is probably the best way to get your chain sharp and back to like new condition as you can get. There's a reason saw shops , businesses ( successful tree services ) etc all have electric grinding machines. Businesses buy chain buy the roll. They hang 20 plus loops on their trucks. They sharpen those loops every couple days on the grinder and hand file as needed in the field.

Nothing new

 

[jetsam]

2) An electric grinder is probably the best way to get your chain sharp and back to like new condition as you can get. There's a reason saw shops , businesses ( successful tree services ) etc all have electric grinding machines. Businesses buy chain buy the roll. They hang 20 plus loops on their trucks. They sharpen those loops every couple days on the grinder and hand file as needed in the field.

I've seen a couple people mention that they feel like a grinder does a better job than a regular granberg. Since I've never tried a grinder, I must ask- why do you say that? Shouldn't results be pretty much the same with, for example, a granberg jig with a file on it and a granberg jig with a grinder on it?

Thanks!

 

[Sean McGillicuddy]

So Nola mike
I think it is time to ask ..... What have you learned from this thread?

 

[BenTN]

I haven't read all the posts on this thread.....so I don't know if anyone has mentioned the Granberg precision grinder. It's their hand grinder mounted to their bar mount system from the original "file N joint". It takes a bit of practice to get really proficient and accurate on both sides with it, but it gives me better results than paying the local stihl shop. Hooks up to 12v batt. A regular re-sharpen takes only 5-10 minutes and is pro sharp. Like most I touch up with a hand file in the field.

i got the Granberg grinder for Christmas last year. i love it. i hand file during my wood cutting excursions and then grind my chain during the saw cleanup before shelving between outings. usually 3-4 tanks of gas, 1-2 cords worth on any excursion. it does have a learning curve tho, mounting and setting depth/height consistently seems to be the hardest part.

 

[DUMF]

Dude, you're talking well past the limits of what you actually know. Give it a rest.

OK, no dude ranches in Pittsburgh are there ? Go Patriots !
So let's do the fact check without the "dude" thingee.
The chisel/square chain is used only by users usually full time pros who cut CLEAN large timber like west coast softwood DBH > 30".
That chisel chain is difficult to hand sharpen ( NO, the Pferd will not do it .) but can be hand learned with an 'edged' file. I did ...once upon a time.
Most chainsaw users who cut for themselves, farmers, Eastern loggers use round chains.
Chisel chains dull quickly with ANY kind of debris, dirt, rot. Most of us harvesting for smaller, non commercial amounts of firewood, sawlogs, or pulp use the standard round chains since they don't dull as easily as chisels AND are easier and faster to touch up.
After > 2 decades cutting with too many saws, gradually working my way down in bar length and saw size, that Pferd tool works. Our northern dealer near Canada charges big $$$ to sharpen chisel chains and the 'normal' round ones. He runs hand filing classes since he says that anyone, even you urbans, should learn to hand sharpen.
Yuh, I am a Pferd enthusiast....no more......Mr. Dude. Use a grinder if it does the job.
Sorry I missed the pic details of the chisel chain. The eyes aren't too good in the morning after.

 

[TreePointer]

Electric chain grinders definitely require proper setup and a light touch, and they don't make sense for everyone. With that being stated, there are plenty of manually skilled people on this board who can do things like weld a proper bead, tie their own flies, or zero a rifle scope. They certainly can run a chain grinder.

Also note that there are different types of electric grinders, with some being easier than others to use. If a person knows how to use a standard round file in a guide, I have no trouble having them use a Granberg Grind-N-Joint.

 

[maple1]

OK, no dude ranches in Pittsburgh are there ? Go Patriots !
So let's do the fact check without the "dude" thingee.
The chisel/square chain is used only by users usually full time pros who cut CLEAN large timber like west coast softwood DBH > 30".
That chisel chain is difficult to hand sharpen ( NO, the Pferd will not do it .) but can be hand learned with an 'edged' file. I did ...once upon a time.
Most chainsaw users who cut for themselves, farmers, Eastern loggers use round chains.
Chisel chains dull quickly with ANY kind of debris, dirt, rot. Most of us harvesting for smaller, non commercial amounts of firewood, sawlogs, or pulp use the standard round chains since they don't dull as easily as chisels AND are easier and faster to touch up.
After > 2 decades cutting with too many saws, gradually working my way down in bar length and saw size, that Pferd tool works. Our northern dealer near Canada charges big $$$ to sharpen chisel chains and the 'normal' round ones. He runs hand filing classes since he says that anyone, even you urbans, should learn to hand sharpen.
Yuh, I am a Pferd enthusiast....no more......Mr. Dude. Use a grinder if it does the job.
Sorry I missed the pic details of the chisel chain. The eyes aren't too good in the morning after.

I've got 4 decades in, and have only hand filed - no guides, no other tools, and most of the time no handle on the file either.

It's great that you like the Pferd & it does what you want - but that does not mean that everyone should use it, it's the only way to do it, or sharpening any other way is the wrong way. Which is what you are implying with your posts.

(Urbans?)

 

[jetsam]

Electric chain grinders definitely require proper setup and a light touch, and they don't make sense for everyone. With that being stated, there are plenty of manually skilled people on this board who can do things like weld a proper bead, tie their own flies, or zero a rifle scope. They certainly can run a chain grinder.

Also note that there are different types of electric grinders, with some being easier than others to use. If a person knows how to use a standard round file in a guide, I have no trouble having them use a Granberg Grind-N-Joint.

But if the same operator has access to a grinding and a filing jig of the same approximate type, I can see the grinder being faster, but are his ground chains somehow better than his filed chains?

Trying to ask if anyone sees a difference other than speed, since I've never used a grinder on a chainsaw blade. (I actually have negative associations with "grinder+blade", because of all the horrible "sharpening" jobs I've seen inflicted on innocent edged implements using bench grinders. . )

 

[Jon1270]

I think the main benefit of a grinder, aside from speed, is consistency. I'm not familiar with the Granberg hand-held model, but your typical chain grinder gets set up to bring the stone down in the same place relative to the back of the tooth, cut after cut. It's by far the quickest, easiest way to straighten out any wonkiness from damage or uneven hand filing. A good grinding job can be very good, but it does take practice, and a top-flight hand filing job is tough to beat.

 

[DUMF]

I've got 4 decades in, and have only hand filed - no guides, no other tools, and most of the time no handle on the file either.
It's great that you like the Pferd & it does what you want - but that does not mean that everyone should use it, it's the only way to do it, or sharpening any other way is the wrong way. Which is what you are implying with your posts.
(Urbans?)

"Urbans" = those living in large urban/cities without acres of woodlands such as Boston, Phillie, Pittsburgh, NYC.

Implying nothing ( no assumptions ) that the Pferd is the only filing method or tool. Most chainsawyers of any experience do however know that if you spend any amount of time in woodlots, you've got to know how to hand file...in the field. We do carry a couple of spare sharpened chains for the 2-3 saws working, just in case.
Even then, there's always the odd chance of hitting debris ( under dead oak bark for example ), barbed wire, rot, or a round, here in northern New England.
The expanse and time setting up an electric grinder is more than learning the simple and useful and cheaper hand techniques. Besides, it's too easy to destroy chains with a grinder.

I am impressed that you don't need no stinkin' handle for your files ! Our New England hands are soft.

 

[DUMF]

Besides the sharpening, more important is that too many of you don't use PPE ...always.
One ER visit makes up for that laziness or cheapness not putting on chaps, hard toed boots, helmet system....always. And your brain.
Those of us who have done the blood deeds out of stupidity, know enough with training and experience to don the full monty PPE.
Most common blood is your left thigh, ~ 80% of blood letting. That's the femoral artery BTW.

 

[highanddryinco]

I-Pferd enough. Later Dudes.

 

[TreePointer]

I really don't know who wears PPE all the time and who doesn't. I've also seen plenty of "pros" on utility crews and loggers who don't wear all PPE or even some PPE all the time.

Some of the the worst pro cutters I've seen are the utility crews (power, cable, phone, etc.) who work directly for the company or municipality.

The average barometric pressure on Mars is 0.6 kPa.

BUT WE DIGRESS...

Later, Dudes!

 

[DUMF]

I-Pferd enough. Later Dudes.

I really don't know who wears PPE all the time and who doesn't. I've also seen plenty of "pros" on utility crews and loggers who don't wear all PPE or even some PPE all the time.
Some of the the worst pro cutters I've seen are the utility crews (power, cable, phone, etc.) who work directly for the company or municipality.
The average barometric pressure on Mars is 0.6 kPa.
BUT WE DIGRESS...
Later, Dudes!

More "dude" dude. What rock did this "dude" thing come out from ?
Dude dude. Dude, dude. This some kind of secret code ....dude ? Enough...dude.
Single syllable short for "duty" ?
No "dudes" in Northeast Kingdom. Dude huh .

 

[Hasufel]

More "dude" dude. What rock did this "dude" thing come out from ?
Dude dude. Dude, dude. This some kind of secret code ....dude ? Enough...dude.
Single syllable short for "duty" ?
No "dudes" in Northeast Kingdom. Dude huh .

 

[Sean McGillicuddy]

Dude!

 

[firefighterjake]

Dude . . . I think I know how to play this game.