Older Intrepid II

[nediver]

I just bought this stove locally for $400. Hope I got a decent deal. The stove is in great condition, but I assume I will need to replace the CAT and it looks like maybe 1 gasket. It seems from the feedback on here this is a good stove. This will be our first stove ever so we are excited. I have a bunch of questions so I hope you all don't mind;

1) Inspecting the stove and CAT, what do I look for to replace?

2) I need to line my chimney, is chimneydepot.com a good place?

3) I have clay inside a masonry chimney, do I still need to insulate?

4) I am putting this stove in an existing fireplace, will I still get good radiant heating from it?

 

[webbie]

4 - yes, keep it far out enough to top load it.
3. - probably not if your tile liner and chimney as a whole is in decent shape, but insulation will provide faster startup and better draft
2 - most any liner is OK, but there are some good, better and best. You get what you pay for, but since you seem to be on a budget, you should be fine. I prefer rigid, when I can use it (hard sometimes)
1 - you can get replacement cats from VC dealers, and probably condar (http://www.condar.com) and other parts places. You should have a manual for the stove before you replace it - this shows the disassembly and replacement/cleaning along eith the parts needed.

Why do you assume you need to replace the cat? Maybe it just needs the dust cleaned out of it? The key is this - they usually break down physically before they do chemically. So if it is in there, it is probably OK....even if a little cracked, etc.

 

[nediver]

Thank you for the reply.

I had the chimney inspected and its in really good shape.

I do have a manual. The stove is about 20 years old and I am assuming the CAT has never been replaced. I will inspect it and post pictures here. I do have a manual.

I am on a budget and I think solid will be difficult for me to install. What would you suggest for liners? Do you think budget liner is a bad choice?

 

[webbie]

Budget liner is fine, especially in a sound chimney. Worse case is that it will not last as long as some others, but in most cases should go 10+ years.....and you will know if and when it does go because the brush will go through it! Might just last 15 or 20. Always depends on a lot of variables.

My point is only for reference - that a much thicker liner or rigid is likely to last longer - but costs more.

 

[Gooserider]

If the cat appears to be in good shape, try running it and see if you get secondary combustion with it (little or no smoke out of chimney w/ cat engaged, and decent 4-500* stove top temps)

If you don't get good secondary combustion, try boiling the cat in vinegar (do a search for earlier threads on the details) and after drying thoroughly, try again.

If it still doesn't work, go shopping for a new cat. The ones from stovecombustors.com have a good reputation, and will light off at a lower temperature than the OEM cats, which means even longer and cleaner burns.

Since you are on a budget, it makes sense to me that you should try and use the old cat if you can make it work...

Gooserider

 

[bmwbj]

nediver, I had to replace my Cat. because it never worked from day 1, and as you can see from the pic. it
looks fine. The only way to really know if it is ok, is to make sure it's clean, intact, and when engaged there is
no smoke coming out your chimney stack. ( or very little smoke).
This is a pic. of my 4 year old Cat. and as soon as I replaced it, my Intrepid II has never worked so good. I used to hate this stove, but now I love it...LOL Good luck with it.

 

[nediver]

Well I am getting ready to install my wood stove this weekend. First I have a few questions about service on the stove. I bought a new CAT because I didn't want to install and then pull the stoveif the old one doesnt work. I also bought a gasket kit in order to redo some gaskets. I switched the flue collar and noticed a bit of rust on the top of stove. Here are a few pics and questions please:

After I switched the flue collar position I noticed some rust. What kind of paint can I hit this with? Also, should I replace this gasket as well?

I assume I will also need to replace these gaskets?

With regards to the CAT, is there an up or down to this thing or in or out, like filters for example both sides look the same but there is a direction for the flow.

I am going to take some pictures of my hearth later as I also have some questions for you all about improving clearance issues. Thanks for the help.

 

[elmoleaf]

Replace any gaskets that are broken, brittle, crumbling. While you have it apart, it's easiest to do them all. I notice that your last photo is of the griddle top seat....your gasket is missing entirely there....be sure to remove the old cement before installing the new gaskets.

Check link below to find parts diagram for your particular Intrepid model.
http://www.discountstove.com/partsvcwbfreestanding.htm

I'll add to my response below, which is from another thread about a used Intrepid.

I’ve got the 1303 version, made in 1987. Can’t afford a new VC, so bought one used Aug 2005 for $275. Black enamel finish.

Issues with my used VC Intrepid:
-I had to rebuild the stove, as it was no longer air-tight from being moved about and it’s age. Plan on rebuilding if you buy used (unless it’s relatively new and you can move it without stressing it). If you rebuild, take pictures/notes as you disassemble....it was a bit tricky getting the fireback parts back in until I got the sequence correct. Don't assume it's airtight....take the time to fix it now. Also, check inside the firebox for daylight at the corner near the primary air flap, where the vertical tie rod comes up from the firebox floor. You shouldn't be able to see daylight out there. Air is supposed to come in the flap and follow channels around the ashpan and up behind the sheet metal on the doors to wash across the inside face of the glass. Use some stove cement to fill any open gap at the tie rod. If you look into the air flap from the outside and see ashes in the air channel, you may have an opening that's allowing ash to drop down and air to bypass it's proper path to the door glass.

-I also had to replace a few fiberglass gaskets...doors, griddle top (buy by the foot cheaply from mcmaster carr online). If you have glass in the doors, check that the glass is not loose and gaskets are ok. You may have to tighten the screw clips holding the glass. While looking at the doors, make sure air channels behind the sheet metal screwed to the inside of the doors are not obstructed.

-Did not have bottom heat shield. Easily made from heavy gauge alum. panel from an old alum. storm door.

-Black enamel is heavily failed on top, and chipped elsewhere. I don’t know if the top failure is from previous owner over-firing, or late 80s-early 90s quality control problem. Haven’t figured out a good way to fix, other than inpainting missing enamel with high temp flat black to somewhat hide the damage.

-Small chunk of metal popped out at a hinge pin seat. Fixed with Pyro-Putty 2400 by aremco--high temp metal repair. (The cracked piece was hidden by enamel finish and only became apparent when one of the doors wouldn’t lift out of its pin seats. The pins seemed to have been forced down at some point or damaged by heat over time. I eventually was able to ease them out, but then the cracked part of the pin seat fell out.) If you buy used, check pin seats carefully for cracks, but remember they can be fixed relatively inexpensively....however, all things being equal, an undamaged stove is better of course.

-Still has original secondary air probe...basically a big chunk of copper wire attached to a bimetal coil that controls small hidden damper for secondary combustion air. Probe has been heavily eroded, but still functions. Should probably be replaced. I can't tell from your first photo...is the metal shutter still hanging by a wire from the metallic coil? Check that it's correct, otherwise you'll have problems getting the cat to work. Also, my metallic coil loosened itself from the probe, so that it spun loosely and never raised and lowered the secondary air damper. Make sure that it's set up correctly on your stove.

-Cat. converter needed to be replaced. If buying used, open stove up to look at the cat converter and the refractory assembly that holds it. Note, that depending upon which Intrepid model you have, the cat is removed from the back or from inside the firebox.
If the cat is cracked and missing pieces, you’ll need to spend about $100 to replace (less if buying Clear Skies). The refract. chamber is a fragile paperlike material...kind of like acoustic ceiling tiles...check to make sure it hasn’t been damaged by a previous owner. I think that’s also about a $100 part. I repaired mine with a paste of stove cement and perlite. Be very careful if you rebuild to not damage the chamber (the white thing in your photos)...it can only be removed by removing the fireback.

Good Luck.

 

[nediver]

Here is a picture of that secondary damper you are talking about. Looks to be in good shape to me.

Is this amount of rust normal on an old stove like this?

 

[nediver]

Oh yeah-

Is that yellow insulation supposed to be in there?

 

[webbie]

Rust is normal - you can wire brush or steel wool it if you like, but it is unlikely to spread much. Cast develops a surface rust and then stops right there (like a car engine or sewer cover)

 

[bmwbj]

No on that "yellow" insulation ---- it is not supposed to be in there. It appears as if someone put that in there to block air flow,
maybe when the stove was not used, to insulate against drafts. Remove it so exhaust gases can flow thru you new cat.

 

[elmoleaf]

Use flat black hi-temp stove paint...available any hardware store or stove shop.

The yellow insulation should NOT be there (odd place to insulate...why didn't they just pull the exhaust pipe and insulate there??). CAREFULLY remove the fiberglass insulation....the white cat chamber is fragile.
If you need to remove the cat chamber to get the insulation out, you must first unscrew and remove the probe that controls the metal damper shown in your photo. That probe goes into the exhaust path in the cat chamber and will prevent the cat chamber from being lifted out after you remove the fireback.

 

[nediver]

I just shop vac'd it. I got the behemoth VC fireplace insert out today. Ordering the liner soon.

Thanks everyone so far who has answered my questions

 

[nediver]

Question for you all-

I am going to have clearance issues with my mantel. I dont have pics to post right now cause I'm lazy, but its basically a 4X4 wood beam set on top of bricks. I think my wife would prefer a new mantel over a heat shield. Can i use stone, and is this somehting i can do myself? What do you all suggest?

 

[Gooserider]

Yes, you can use stone in place of wood, it is an approach that many have used to solve clearance issues. Generally it looks really nice if you pick an appropriate type of stone to go well with the rest of the fireplace.

As to DIY, that's a mixed bag... You need to make sure whatever support you have is up to the much heavier weight of the stone as compared to wood, which is not a terribly difficult issue. However the really BIG problem is that stone is HEAVY, and you may need to get some serious assistance to get it into place... Transporting it can also be a challenge depending on the size of the peice.

However aside from the weight issue, I know of no real reason you couldn't DIY on it.

Gooserider

 

[nediver]

So I got up on the roof today and measured everything for my wood stove. My flue is a standard 13X13 and 25 ft liner will be more than enough length. Its a straight shot for me down the chimney and I dont think there will be many problems encoutered. I have a few questions;

1) The kit comes with everything & I have decided not to insulate the whole liner, but will I want to insulate parts towards the bottom or top to prevent my heat from going up the chimney?

2) I have a flue for my furnace and water heater that measured 8.5 square, thought I would cap this while im up there, but everything online is 8X8. Did I measure wrong? Is this something I should do anyway?

3) When I pulled out the old insert there is a metal plate where my damper was, the plate has a large oval opening in it where it connected to the insert, its sealed with round washers and black epoxy or silicone. Can I modiify this for use with my liner or should I rip it out altogether?

4) The insert I pulled out is an old VC circa 86', I cannot get the internal damper to work and I suspect the linkage is broke. I troubleshot it based on the manual and I could not fix it. I think the only way is to try and disasemble the whole thing. Am I crazy for just tossing this thing without selling it? Should I try and fix and paint it first? Should I list it with broken damper and BO? What would it be worth?

Thanks for the help!

 

[begreen]

Is this an interior chimney? or and exterior chimney? If exterior, insulate the liner.

It sounds like you have an older block off plate (pictures would help). Is it in good condition? If the new pipe will pass through the old opening, then a square metal patch (with hole for the new pipe) can be pop-riveted to the old block off plate. Caulk the edges first for a tight seal.

Hard to say on the old VC, but don't toss it. First identify the model, then either sell it as it is for a good price (say $200) or fix it up and get it in good working order and sell it for a bit more depending on how well it restores.

 

[Gooserider]

So I got up on the roof today and measured everything for my wood stove. My flue is a standard 13X13 and 25 ft liner will be more than enough length. Its a straight shot for me down the chimney and I dont think there will be many problems encoutered. I have a few questions;

1) The kit comes with everything & I have decided not to insulate the whole liner, but will I want to insulate parts towards the bottom or top to prevent my heat from going up the chimney?

2) I have a flue for my furnace and water heater that measured 8.5 square, thought I would cap this while im up there, but everything online is 8X8. Did I measure wrong? Is this something I should do anyway?

3) When I pulled out the old insert there is a metal plate where my damper was, the plate has a large oval opening in it where it connected to the insert, its sealed with round washers and black epoxy or silicone. Can I modiify this for use with my liner or should I rip it out altogether?

4) The insert I pulled out is an old VC circa 86', I cannot get the internal damper to work and I suspect the linkage is broke. I troubleshot it based on the manual and I could not fix it. I think the only way is to try and disasemble the whole thing. Am I crazy for just tossing this thing without selling it? Should I try and fix and paint it first? Should I list it with broken damper and BO? What would it be worth?

Thanks for the help!

13x13 is good, you should have no problem getting an insulated liner down if you were to insulate. As BG said, If you have an exterior chimney, it is a good idea to insulate the entire length, or close to it. If it's interior, the insulation is less critical, though it's still not a bad idea. It is an excellent idea to insulate the top parts of the liner where it is above the roof and maybe even in the attic - use rockwool or liner insulation, not regular fiberglass. This doesn't keep heat from going up the chimney, instead it helps keep the liner from cooling down, which will reduce your condensation and creosote buildup.

Keeping the heat from going up the chimney is the job of the blockoff plate, which sounds like the item you described in item 3, as BG said, either patch it, or make a new plate to replace it. You want as tight a seal as possible between the plate and the chimney (seal with silicone, and fasten with appropriate fasteners) and between the plate and liner (seal with refractory cement) Some folks put rock wool insulation above the blockoff plate, but it isn't clear just how critical this is.

On the furnace flue, is this part of the same chimney that the stove will be using (in a seperate flue as code requires...) or is it a seperate stack? If it's the same chimney, there should be a vertical height difference between the two outlets, but if you have that, it can be better to have one cap that covers the entire chimney top. If you go with seperate caps, be sure that you don't have them so that water running off of one cap doesn't get deflected into the chimney of the other... If it's a seperate stack, are the dimensions the inside measurements or the outside of the entire stack? A lot of the caps I've seen go over the outside, so those are the needed numbers...

Gooserider

 

[nediver]

So I got up on the roof today and measured everything for my wood stove. My flue is a standard 13X13 and 25 ft liner will be more than enough length. Its a straight shot for me down the chimney and I dont think there will be many problems encoutered. I have a few questions;

1) The kit comes with everything & I have decided not to insulate the whole liner, but will I want to insulate parts towards the bottom or top to prevent my heat from going up the chimney?

2) I have a flue for my furnace and water heater that measured 8.5 square, thought I would cap this while im up there, but everything online is 8X8. Did I measure wrong? Is this something I should do anyway?

3) When I pulled out the old insert there is a metal plate where my damper was, the plate has a large oval opening in it where it connected to the insert, its sealed with round washers and black epoxy or silicone. Can I modiify this for use with my liner or should I rip it out altogether?

4) The insert I pulled out is an old VC circa 86', I cannot get the internal damper to work and I suspect the linkage is broke. I troubleshot it based on the manual and I could not fix it. I think the only way is to try and disasemble the whole thing. Am I crazy for just tossing this thing without selling it? Should I try and fix and paint it first? Should I list it with broken damper and BO? What would it be worth?

Thanks for the help!

13x13 is good, you should have no problem getting an insulated liner down if you were to insulate. As BG said, If you have an exterior chimney, it is a good idea to insulate the entire length, or close to it. If it's interior, the insulation is less critical, though it's still not a bad idea. It is an excellent idea to insulate the top parts of the liner where it is above the roof and maybe even in the attic - use rockwool or liner insulation, not regular fiberglass. This doesn't keep heat from going up the chimney, instead it helps keep the liner from cooling down, which will reduce your condensation and creosote buildup.

I have reservations about insulating mainly due to cost, the liner was like $400 for the kit and I think the insulation was close to that. Is there a cheaper way for me to insualate?

Keeping the heat from going up the chimney is the job of the blockoff plate, which sounds like the item you described in item 3, as BG said, either patch it, or make a new plate to replace it. You want as tight a seal as possible between the plate and the chimney (seal with silicone, and fasten with appropriate fasteners) and between the plate and liner (seal with refractory cement) Some folks put rock wool insulation above the blockoff plate, but it isn't clear just how critical this is.

Yes it sounds like that is what it is. I will take pictures today as I will need more advice on this, but I think I will modify it as you all described

On the furnace flue, is this part of the same chimney that the stove will be using (in a seperate flue as code requires...) or is it a seperate stack? If it's the same chimney, there should be a vertical height difference between the two outlets, but if you have that, it can be better to have one cap that covers the entire chimney top. If you go with seperate caps, be sure that you don't have them so that water running off of one cap doesn't get deflected into the chimney of the other... If it's a seperate stack, are the dimensions the inside measurements or the outside of the entire stack? A lot of the caps I've seen go over the outside, so those are the needed numbers...

Furnace flue is in same chimney different flue, you right the tiles do not come above the crown where as the firplace flue comes up about 6 inches. I think if I install the cap that comes standard with the liner kit it may shed water right into the furnace flue. I guess I will have to cap the entire chimney

Gooserider

 

[nediver]

Is this an interior chimney? or and exterior chimney? If exterior, insulate the liner.

It sounds like you have an older block off plate (pictures would help). Is it in good condition? If the new pipe will pass through the old opening, then a square metal patch (with hole for the new pipe) can be pop-riveted to the old block off plate. Caulk the edges first for a tight seal.

Hard to say on the old VC, but don't toss it. First identify the model, then either sell it as it is for a good price (say $200) or fix it up and get it in good working order and sell it for a bit more depending on how well it restores.

Its an exterior chimney and its like a 20-25 foot run. I think I will modify the block off as you suggest, will take pics later today.

 

[begreen]

Definitely insulate that liner, it's required and will make a big difference.

 

[Gooserider]

One way to insulate that I have heard of, not sure if it would save you any money or not, (I haven't priced the stuff) especially in a large cross section chimney like you have, is to purchase bags of vermiculite and pour them in around the liner until the chimney is filled. It's good insulation, but does require that you have a really good seal on your block off plate, and means you will get a really huge mess if you ever need to replace the liner or break the seal on the plate...

(Vermiculite is sold as insulation, I've also heard that it is available from gardening shops for less, and many have claimed it's the same stuff....)

You may also be able to save by purchasing the insulation kit on-line. I think I've seen them for less, but not positive.

Gooserider

 

[elmoleaf]

I haven't seen it addressed anywhere on these forums, but if moisture infiltration into your chimney is a problem, then loose vermiculite or perlite might not be wise. Such loose mixtures can hold a lot of water, and when you introduce a hot stove pipe to that, you'll get a lot of steam. Anyone have such an experience??

Of the two, perlite might be the better choice: According to Cornell, (http://www.hort.cornell.edu/department/faculty/good/growon/media/inorg.html) "Perlite can retain two to four times its dry weight in water, which is much greater than that of sand and polystyrene, yet much less than the water-holding capacity of peat and vermiculite." Of course, finer grades of either type tend to hold more water than coarser grades.

It'd probably be better to use perlite or vermiculite mixed with portland cement, such as is done with Thermix and similar commercial chimney insulation mixes. I assume the cement tends to reduce the water holding capacity of the material and obviously keep it in place. Mixed at ratios of 1 portland to 6 perlite (see http://www.perlite.com/concretemixdesigns.PDF), you get compressive strengths of only 125-200 lbs /sq in. Such low strengths should allow you to break out the insulation down the road if you need to redo the stainless liner etc. (Interestingly, the 1:8 mixture has a K value similar to Micore 300. If you check the MSDS of Micore 300, you'll discover that it's mostly mineral wool and perlite bound together with cement).

Of course, it'd be best to have any chimney with loose mortar etc. repointed to minimize moisture entering the flue. And failing that, perhaps don't use loose fill insulation, so the moisture can evaporate or drain away.

 

[nediver]

Definitely insulate that liner, it's required and will make a big difference.

I have been told its only required for masonary only chimney and not those already lined with terra cotta. All the stove shops around here say dont bother with the insulation, I would assume if local code dictated otherwise they would let me know.