Open Fireplace Questions

[nbarr7655]

Hello all! After asking quite the number of questions on these forums and reading, my wife and I have finally figured out what we will be doing with our fireplace. We will be using it as it was used many years ago when it was first put in, as an open fireplace.

With that being said, I have a question. I plan to repaint the steel/iron liner on the inside with high temp black paint to give it a nicer look. However, the bricks down below from what I can tell were laid in there at time of install and that was it. With that being said over time they have shifted a tad it looks like and now have some slight gaps. Do I need to seal up these gaps? I assumed so but wanted to make sure. If sealing, I planned to use the product below, will that work or should I be filling with something else?

 

[bholler]

Hello all! After asking quite the number of questions on these forums and reading, my wife and I have finally figured out what we will be doing with our fireplace. We will be using it as it was used many years ago when it was first put in, as an open fireplace.

With that being said, I have a question. I plan to repaint the steel/iron liner on the inside with high temp black paint to give it a nicer look. However, the bricks down below from what I can tell were laid in there at time of install and that was it. With that being said over time they have shifted a tad it looks like and now have some slight gaps. Do I need to seal up these gaps? I assumed so but wanted to make sure. If sealing, I planned to use the product below, will that work or should I be filling with something else?
View attachment 270020

View attachment 270021

It looks to me like there is something going on with the hearth slab. Most likely the hearth extension was not poured with the hearth slab as one mass of reinforced concrete. It really needs to be inspected for safety and structural integrity

 

[AIMSWEEP]

After you have it all inspected I would use refractory cement and fill ALL the spaces between the firebrick floor AND I would seal up the ash dump and not use it at all. Old ashes in an ashdump can and will deteriorate the mortar joints within the dump area itself. so that may be the shift problem as well. Best get it ALL checked out

 

[jetsam]

It almost looks like that firebrick will lift right out. You may be able to get a look at the slab that way.

The firebrick also looks wet, or maybe it's just the picture. Does the chimney have a cap?

What is the status of the gas line in the back corner? Is it still plumbed in to anything? Need to get that removed and plugged too.

Definitely get the flue inspected.

Once you get the safety issues sorted,, remember that open fireplaces are usually heat losers- you'll increase your heat bill (sometimes by a lot) when using it.

 

[nbarr7655]

After you have it all inspected I would use refractory cement and fill ALL the spaces between the firebrick floor AND I would seal up the ash dump and not use it at all. Old ashes in an ashdump can and will deteriorate the mortar joints within the dump area itself. so that may be the shift problem as well. Best get it ALL checked out

Will do, thank you!

It almost looks like that firebrick will lift right out. You may be able to get a look at the slab that way.

The firebrick also looks wet, or maybe it's just the picture. Does the chimney have a cap?

What is the status of the gas line in the back corner? Is it still plumbed in to anything? Need to get that removed and plugged too.

Definitely get the flue inspected.

Once you get the safety issues sorted,, remember that open fireplaces are usually heat losers- you'll increase your heat bill (sometimes by a lot) when using it.

The brick does pull right out as well as the little ash dump. From what I can tell when looking down the ash dump it was either never used or was cleaned very well after the very last use years ago. In any case we will probably just scoop ash out.

Brick is not wet, just the picture. There is a homemade cap that I made a few years back but as part of the project I will be installing a top side damper.

As for the gas line in the back, it is not connected. It ports out through the back, outside and then is cut off out there. It is nothing more than 10 inch or so piece of metal pipe stuck in the wall haha.

As for the flue, we had a chimney sweep out about 3 weeks ago and he told us that everything looks great including the flue. No issues and nothing to even clean! (Fire place hasn't burned wood in 30+ years)

 

[bholler]

Will do, thank you!


The brick does pull right out as well as the little ash dump. From what I can tell when looking down the ash dump it was either never used or was cleaned very well after the very last use years ago. In any case we will probably just scoop ash out.

Brick is not wet, just the picture. There is a homemade cap that I made a few years back but as part of the project I will be installing a top side damper.

As for the gas line in the back, it is not connected. It ports out through the back, outside and then is cut off out there. It is nothing more than 10 inch or so piece of metal pipe stuck in the wall haha.

As for the flue, we had a chimney sweep out about 3 weeks ago and he told us that everything looks great including the flue. No issues and nothing to even clean! (Fire place hasn't burned wood in 30+ years)

Your sweep said everything looked great? Did he comment on the floor and hearth extension? Did he check below it?

 

[nbarr7655]

Your sweep said everything looked great? Did he comment on the floor and hearth extension? Did he check below it?

To clarify, the chimney and flue looked great. He didn't say much of anything about the floor, which I now find a little odd.....

 

[bholler]

To clarify, the chimney and flue looked great. He didn't say much of anything about the floor, which I now find a little odd.....

If he didn't comment on something like that which could be a clear safety issue I would have to question the rest of the inspection

 

[nbarr7655]

Alright so to add to my questions....

if I look inside my fireplace and straight up, I see some steel there and I am wondering what it is for, I am guessing a sort of heatshield? Below is my very crude paint drawing of what I am talking about. This would be if it were open and you were looking from the side.

EDIT: My picture makes it look like the hollow space then just flies up to no where when in reality, it basically connects back into the chimney. So if smoke were to into that hollow area, it would definitely leave the house in the standard fashion so to speak. Also I don't mean "L Bracket" but rather L shaped piece of steel.

 

[nbarr7655]

Thinking about it now, could it be that it was used with the old throat damper that is no longer installed?

 

[bholler]

Thinking about it now, could it be that it was used with the old throat damper that is no longer installed?

Probably but we have no way to know without pics. And if it is in there it is installed

 

[nbarr7655]

Probably but we have no way to know without pics. And if it is in there it is installed

I did manage to snag a picture. Ignore the stuffed insulation in there. That's due to a lack of damper up top. This shot is as if you were laying down inside the fire box.

 

[bholler]

I did manage to snag a picture. Ignore the stuffed insulation in there. That's due to a lack of damper up top. This shot is as if you were laying down inside the fire box.

That looks like it is a big gap between the facing and the front panel of your metal firebox. Your fireplace seems to have lots of potentially dangerous issues.

 

[moresnow]

You need a second opinion as your first one appears to have a very strange idea of acceptable condition.

 

[nbarr7655]

The guy that inspected before said "oh yeah, you'd be fine to put a gas or wood insert in here" and thats where the conversation headed. We never asked about an open fireplace. Does that even make sense here? I assume since an insert is closed off we wouldn't have to worry about these gaps but would still have a lot of radiant heat. Also, the only thing even close to that gap is the front facing which is all concrete and stone. And from what I can tell, nothing is missing from the bottom side of it?

 

[bholler]

The guy that inspected before said "oh yeah, you'd be fine to put a gas or wood insert in here" and thats where the conversation headed. We never asked about an open fireplace. Does that even make sense here? I assume since an insert is closed off we wouldn't have to worry about these gaps but would still have a lot of radiant heat. Also, the only thing even close to that gap is the front facing which is all concrete and stone. And from what I can tell, nothing is missing from the bottom side of it?

Depending upon what is going on any of those gaps could easily lead to combustible materials. I am also concerned about the over all structural integrity of the fireplace. That gap at the top coupled with the gaps in the floor make me think there is some pretty major movement going on.

 

[jatoxico]

I had the same situation in my fireplace. Before I added the insert smoke used come out from under the mantel and even seeped through some of the mortar between bricks because it was findings its way into that gap between the damper housing(?) and the facing brick. The draft was never great and smoke rolled right into it.

I sealed the gap with cement and solved that issue but draft still was lousy. Consequently the fireplace was pretty useless until we added the insert.

Many fireplaces do not perform well at all and I don't mean simply from a heat loss point of view. A great deal don't draft well at all as evidenced by frequent smoke stains on the front bricks of the upper opening. Maybe why it wasn't used in 30 years.

You may want to evaluate if your fireplace will function the way you hope as an open fireplace or if it will fill the house with smoke before you commit any money that might be better spent on doing something to make it more functional.