Opinions on Installation Price quote

[kingston73]

I wanted to get some feedback as far as price quotes for installation go. In my area I don't have many options as far as places who will install and I've gotten a couple quotes. The place that has given me the best stove price also gave me the highest installation price. I'm looking at small stoves for a small house, and the best small stove price so far has been a Morso for $900, but they also said it'll be $500 to install and $70 per foot for a new liner. We currently have an 8x8 tile lined external chimney, which one installer said should be fine but this other place said would absolutely HAVE to be lined with a 6 inch liner.
The second best place has a Napoleon for $1100 and they estimated installation would only be about $300 and we wouldn't have to reline our chimney (unless of course we have draft problems later on).

Opinions Greatly Appreciated....

 

[branchburner]

I would agree, not essential to line unless the tile is cracked or the stove does not perform.
For inexpensive stoves, consider Englander, but you would then need to find an independent installer - or install yourself, which is not too hard if you are not lining (a few buddies, a few beers, game over).

 

[Fsappo]

I would line the chimney, first of all. Theres a million reasons why. $500 labor to line a chimney and hook a stove up is cheap. Our shop charges $650 for a one story install like that, or $750 for a two story.

We also charge $650 for a 25' liner kit with a tee. Non insulated. So for me, the liner is what we'd need some more details on. Did they actually inspect your chimney and determine what kind of liner was needed and explain why?

 

[branchburner]

$70/foot = not cheap.

 

[kingston73]

No, the quote was based on a diagram I made of my set up, they haven't actually been out to the house yet. I forgot to put in my first post, the installation fee included putting a new thimble in higher up than the current one, which is why I am not considering doing the install myself. I'm pretty confident in my abilities to do things around the house, but cutting a hole in the outer wall and installing a thimble is beyond my skill level.

 

[cmonSTART]

Ya, you sort of want thimbles to be done correctly.

What do the Morso and Napoleon stove manuals say about relining? Some appliances now REQUIRE a stainless liner in their manual, some don't. If a good inspection is done on the clay liner and it's not cracked etc it should be OK to use.

$70/ft is pretty high in my market IMO, but I can't speak for SE Mass. Some of my quotes may reach that for liners may reach that level though, for an insulated stainless liner where I have to break and remove clay.

The install charge seems pretty good if they are doing thimble work. That can take time to do properly.

Hope this helps.

 

[fireview2788]

Install on my Fireview for a ranch house; cleaning masonry chimney, installing flexible SS liner including cap= $1000. Another friend spent $1200 to have his insert installed.

fv

 

[cmonSTART]

I would line the chimney, first of all. Theres a million reasons why.

And I completely agree with this, BTW.

 

[kingston73]

Thanks for all the replies, it definitely helps. I've only found 4 places that do installations in my area, so it's hard to get comparisons for pricing, especially when they all carry different brands of stove. So basically to summarize:
- we should get the chimney lined no matter what
- $500 for a new thimble install isn't a bad price at all
- $70/foot for liner is on the high end of pricing

 

[cmonSTART]

Have you tried getting an install quote from a Certified Sweep from csia.org? It might give you some more options.

It may be on the high end or it may be what folks are charging down there.

 

[kingston73]

That is a great site, it gave me more results in 30 seconds than I could find looking on my own over an hour. Thank you!

 

[burntime]

70 bucks a foot is too much. But definitely line it. Spend the extra on insulation and a block off plate as well. Aside from safety (which is the main reason) the performance is greatly enhanced. I have had both ways on an internal masonary chimney and it made a world of difference!

 

[cmonSTART]

That is a great site, it gave me more results in 30 seconds than I could find looking on my own over an hour. Thank you!

You're welcome!

 

[branchburner]

- we should get the chimney lined no matter what

I will partially disagree with the other posters (and the Morso shop) on this. I'm not saying NOT to line, and I do think lining it is a great idea. Do you absolutely HAVE to line it? Probably NO. If the flue was any larger than 8x8 I would say yes. But many stoves will perform pretty well at 64" sq, versus 29" sq. BTW, how tall is the chimney (or length of liner from thimle to top)?

I agree with Burntime: if you do incur the expense to line it, I would go the extra mile and insulate it and do a block-off.

 

[jophysx]

70 bucks a foot is too much. But definitely line it. Spend the extra on insulation and a block off plate as well. Aside from safety (which is the main reason) the performance is greatly enhanced. I have had both ways on an internal masonary chimney and it made a world of difference!

Can anyone explain why insulation and a block off plate make much difference? My install was done with neither, and I've been wondering whether I could be getting even more efficient heat out of my stove if I had them. I don't really understand what the purpose is, and why a block off plate and/or insulation would improve stove performance.

Jim

 

[Fsappo]

Keeps the chimney warmer. Warmer chimney stays clean and drafts better because of the whole "heat rises" thingie.

 

[jeff_t]

70 bucks a foot is too much. But definitely line it. Spend the extra on insulation and a block off plate as well. Aside from safety (which is the main reason) the performance is greatly enhanced. I have had both ways on an internal masonary chimney and it made a world of difference!

Can anyone explain why insulation and a block off plate make much difference? My install was done with neither, and I've been wondering whether I could be getting even more efficient heat out of my stove if I had them. I don't really understand what the purpose is, and why a block off plate and/or insulation would improve stove performance.

Jim

Insulation keeps the flue gases warmer, which helps with draft, and also helps keep water vapor in the smoke from condensing on the inside of the liner. This moisture is what smoke particles stick to, to form creosote. If your chimney runs up the middle of your house, instead of on an outside wall, you probably don't need it.
A block off plate simply seals off the opening from the fireplace to the chimney. It keeps warm air from the room from being sucked up the chimney around the liner, just like an open fireplace.

 

[jophysx]

OK. Makes sense that the chimney pipe will stay warmer and that will improve the draft, but I've got plenty of draft already. Should I ignore/discount that benefit? As for warm air escaping up the chimney, my chimney is blocked off at the top, so I'm not actually losing air, but I am heating a space external to the house proper. Do you think a signficant amount of heat is lost through the masonry of the rather thick-walled stone chimney?

Either way, I think I am going to try installing either a plate or just stuffing some kind of insulation into the bottom of the chimney - not for the insulation value, but to prevent air circulation. I've seen people on this forum refer to "Rock Wool" for this purpose? I've got the bug for burning now, and I want to play/experiment.

BTW I have a Hampton HI300 insert.

-Jim

 

[begreen]

In milder Portland OR the heat loss issue may not be as noticeable but yes, a significant amount of heat does get lost to the external masonry if there is not a damper seal. Even if your flue drafts well, by keeping the flue gases warmer, you reduce condensation in the pipe, especially near the top. Condensation of flue gases = creosote accumulation. There is also a safety factor. Insulating the pipe keeps it from direct contact with the masonry, which stops direct heat transference to the wood structure.

Here's a wiki article for more information on damper sealing:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Seal_Fireplace_Damper/