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"Over firing" voids warranty. What does this mean?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by dskup, Nov 29, 2007.

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  1. dskup

    dskup Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
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    Loc:
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    I just had a Quad 7100 installed, and I notice the manual says the warranty is
    void if the unit is "over fired." By brother recently discovered the baffle in his
    Vermont Casting wood stove was deformed, and he was told by the company that
    they would not cover it because the unit was obviously "over fired."

    So what exactly does that entail? Should I install a thermometer on my unit and
    monitor the fire box and/or flue temp? If that's the case, why don't they just integrate
    a thermometer in the unit? Can I over fire it simply by keeping the damper open too long?

    I also have a 30 year old Fisher wood stove, and I have noticed the 7100 seems much
    more sensitive to small movements in the damper. It also seems to burn with much
    taller, wildly dancing flames. This is really nice to watch, but it makes me nervous.

    Any insight?

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  2. ozarkjeep

    ozarkjeep New Member

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    the wildly dancing flames are very likely the secondary combustion and the thing that makes that stove more efficient than the old fisher ( I had a Fisher too).

    dont leave the door cracked open, the manual shoudl give instructions on how to NOT overfire, and how to operate your stove within its safe parameters, a temp gauge is always a good thing.
  3. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Mostly an excuse so they can turn down warranties! It's very tough for someone to have a 1500+ F degree fire in a stove and then control it to some exact point in terms of the heat on the internal castings. Since cast iron cannot really take temps over 1000 or so regularly, any cast part exposed to the fire can deform eventually....same with steel. Firebrick and stainless can take higher temps.

    You should use a thermometer.

    In my opinion, the overfire thing is really only valid when people constantly burn construction lumber or try to heat a barn....I've had customer burn particle board! Now that would be consider mis-use. But must of the possibility of over-firing is built into the design of the stove, so if the chimney and wood are correct, then it should not be easy to over fire.
  4. JimWalshin845

    JimWalshin845 New Member

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    S. Jersey
    Tell your Bro-in-law to stick to his guns. Have him call the VC rep and say he will slaughter VC's tushie all over H dot C and every other internet forum dealing with wood stoves. See what results he gets?

    Yes, manufactures put in every clause as per why they won't stand up to their reputation. Prove them wrong by making them have a factory rep there while you have the retailer you bought it from. Tell them you love their product but something is wrong with this particular stove.

    I built a new home in '93, the oil burner was a Becham/Burnett (sic) and they eventually had a cast problem, one of them was mine. I pushed and got a whole new bolier (not burner). Sometimes the squeeky wheel works.

    Some things in my favor were that I submitted all the warrentee forms and had receipts for installation (I was the GC for the home), Know your own States rights as per new/old construction installation. Know the installer and will they stand behind you or will they cow-tow to the manufacturer.

    In my case, my old neighbor (he did not do the HVAC work in my new home) gave me the heads up as per the defect and to look out for it. Sure enough it happened on Thanksgving Eve just before we were going to have a huge crowd up. Yep.. it was cold that weekend.... took a while to get it fixed.. cost me ZERO except a lot of phone calls and a bottle of Jack for John who originally gave me the clue.

    There was a class action suit later... I diddn't have to participate in that.. I got what I needed and still like the oil furnace manufacturer, sometimes new/innovative things go awry, maybe it was manufactured on a late friday afternoon or a monday morning.

    Ya Never Know,
    Did I Ramble?
  5. eernest4

    eernest4 New Member

    Joined:
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    ALWAYS USE A FLUE PIPE MAGET STICK ON THERMOMETER.

    They only cost $9.99 at any hardware store that carries stoves. Some people use two, one 18 inch from the stove on the flue pipe and the other on the stove top. The stove top thermometer, the same one,only different placement,does not respond quickly to changes in temp,only reading the overall temp of the stove body, while the flue pipe thermo ,you can see the needle moving as the FIRE heats up or cools down.

    This is the only way you have of really knowing what is going on with your stove.


    You should be able to prevent or at least control an overfire situation by shutting down the primary & secondary controls until the temp drops down to a more reasonable level.

    Shutting down a stack draft control also helps, but if you shut it off completely, you may get smoke backing up into the room & need to open it a bit more to restore smoke flow up the chimney.

    A 24 inch fan aimed at the flue pipe works to a noticable degree, if you have black single wall pipe.
    This reduces the flue pipe temp which reduces the draft which helps calm the fire.

    You can see the temp of the flue pipe thermo drop when the fan is aimed at the flue pipe.
    But ,for a true reading of the outer skin of the flue pipe, you need to turn the fan off and see what the temp gague climbs back to.

    Keep in mind that this temp is just a reading of the outer flue pipe skin temp and that the gasses in the center of the flue pipe can be 300 deg.hotter.

    The fan aimed at the flue pipe wont work at all with double wall stainless insulated pipe & neither does the magnet thermometer.

    A probe thermometer requires a hole drilled into the stainless pipe of the same diameter as the thermometer probe, so that the probe can be inserted into the center of the flue pipe and it will read the center gas temps which are 300 deg hotter that flue skin temp of black single wall pipe.

    I remember reading here on some post or other ,that interior gas temp can be 300 to 400 deg hotter that black single wall flue pipe skin temp. Hopefully, the probe thermometer
    will have instructions which tell you.

    At any rate, probe thermos read the actual temp of the inner flue gasses, not the relativaly cooled off gases in contact with the skin of the flue pipe.

    I have noticed ,that once the primary air & flue damper are shut, the overfire will cool down within 4 to 6 minutes. If not, then you didnt shut off the primary air enough, it needs to be shut completely.

    every stove is different, so your results may vary.

    Learn the ways of your stove, so you will know what to do.
  6. JimWalshin845

    JimWalshin845 New Member

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    Damn, that is why my sourdough comes out too dark, what a great IDEA! :cheese:
  7. dskup

    dskup Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Minnesota
    Thanks guys! This is actually a fireplace (Quardrafire 7100), not a wood stove. So unfortunately
    that means no access to the chimney pipe. Even if I did, it's the air cooled SL300 stuff so it has an
    air gap between the outer skin.

    My brothers VC is a stove however, and I will definitely suggest to him that he pushes harder. For
    the record, he does not burn construction lumber or (yikes) plywood. He also uses a high grade digital probe
    thermometer inserted into his pipe.

    Anyway, thanks all.
  8. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    You can get a magnet temp guage and stick it to the door frame to get a pretty good temp reading. You want to keep it under 600 deg for the most part. If you pack the thing full and open the air all the way and leave it there for a long time you could over fire it. Also if you have a lot of softer woods burning you run a greater risk because they burn hotter and faster. Best bet is to get a temp gauge and watch it. After you get the hang of it you might not need it anymore.

    I was just out at a customer house today to show him how to keep his glass clean (on a 7100), which was by burning dry wood, heh. We had that thing ripping good. He was kinda upset cause he had tons of wood he thought was dry.... and its not. He made a nice black glaze on everything from just 10 fires.
  9. karl

    karl Minister of Fire

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    You know, I think this over firing stuff is totally unenforcable. They say you can't over fire one or it will void the warranty, yet they don't define what overfiring is. If it's that important, and we know it can be, then they should define what it is. If a manufacturer tells somebody they won't cover the damage because of this, I would suggest they call the Attorney General in the state in which they reside and ask who is the agent of record for the company. If they are incorporated and do business in that state then they have to have an agent of record. If you can't find one, then call the Attorney General in the state in which the company is located. Send this person a demand letter for replacement of the part and if they don't give it to you. Take them to small claims court in the county in which you reside. You do this by naming the company and the agent of record in the suit. He's the one who gets served. I'm willing to bet they will send you the part before hiring an attorney in your county to answer the suit. If they go to court, take the manual in and show the judge where is doesn't define what over firing is. I think he would be simpathetic to your arguement. It only costs about 40 bux to file a small claims suit in most states, so it's worth a shot.

    I'm not sue happy or anything but this is ridiculous. If a major car manufacturer tells me the won't put a new engine in my car while it's under warranty because I didn't change the oil often enough. They have to show where I had reasonable knowledge to know when to change it. That's why they put it in the manual.

    It's a total cop out for a stove manufacterer to fail to put a temperature limit on their stove and a reccomended thermometer location.
  10. dskup

    dskup Member

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    Thanks for the advice, and I totally agree. I will pass this on to my brother.
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