P.T. Barnum lives again??

[kbd627]

Could P.T. Barnum be alive and living in Orange CT?? From Craig's List.

Wood Pellets - $10 (Orange)

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Reply to: see below
Date: 2008-11-07, 1:26PM EST
My new pellet stove works better then I thought it would, and we bought too many pellets. I have 40 lb bags, premium grade @ $10 a bag. I am not a dealer. I do not sell stoves or fuel. Call: Michael (203)415-6633
Location: Orange
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 909634784
For those you don't know. P.T. Barnum is credited with the saying "There's a sucker born every minute". HD near me in CT has $5.98/bags.

 

[krooser]

Could P.T. Barnum be alive and living in Orange CT?? From Craig's List.

Wood Pellets - $10 (Orange)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: see below
Date: 2008-11-07, 1:26PM EST
My new pellet stove works better then I thought it would, and we bought too many pellets. I have 40 lb bags, premium grade @ $10 a bag. I am not a dealer. I do not sell stoves or fuel. Call: Michael (203)415-6633
Location: Orange
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 909634784
For those you don't know. P.T. Barnum is credited with the saying "There's a sucker born every minute". HD near me in CT has $5.98/bags.

But they are PREMIUM pellets... WOW!

 

[bungalobob]

Could P.T. Barnum be alive and living in Orange CT?? From Craig's List.

Wood Pellets - $10 (Orange)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: see below
Date: 2008-11-07, 1:26PM EST
My new pellet stove works better then I thought it would, and we bought too many pellets. I have 40 lb bags, premium grade @ $10 a bag. I am not a dealer. I do not sell stoves or fuel. Call: Michael (203)415-6633
Location: Orange
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 909634784
For those you don't know. P.T. Barnum is credited with the saying "There's a sucker born every minute". HD near me in CT has $5.98/bags.

Wow! That's $500.00 a ton without delivery. What a steal and a bargain at that. Probably all sold by now, darn.

 

[BubbRubb]

If he added "Black Friday" and "Doorbuster" to the deal, he would have people camping outside his house 24+ hours before he returned from Thanksgiving travel just waiting to give him their money.

 

[webbie]

It's all relative - if I would have told you 10 years ago that folks would be standing in line and throwing money at dealers for $5000+ pellet stove installs and $325 tons to go with them.....you'd have said I was nuts.

Umbrellas cost a lot more in a storm, and water more in a desert.

 

[trogers]

It's all relative - if I would have told you 10 years ago that folks would be standing in line and throwing money at dealers for $5000+ pellet stove installs and $325 tons to go with them.....you'd have said I was nuts.

Umbrellas cost a lot more in a storm, and water more in a desert.

Yeah, but at least you are talikng about a 10 year time difference in that example. I have seen at least 6-7 Walmarts, Home Depots, or BJ's, etc. with Pellet in the $5.49-$5.99 per bag range.

You now what's funny, though? According to the fuel comarison tool at pelletheat.org, even at $500 per ton I would be saving over buring my propane at $2.96 a gallon! That makes me a feel really good about my 4 tons at $279.00 delivered, but it's still a little too high. I'd love to meet the person who buys those pellets!

 

[bungalobob]

It's all relative - if I would have told you 10 years ago that folks would be standing in line and throwing money at dealers for $5000+ pellet stove installs and $325 tons to go with them.....you'd have said I was nuts.

Umbrellas cost a lot more in a storm, and water more in a desert.

Hey, Craig, you changed your avatar. What happened to you doing what looked like browsing at an outdoor market?

 

[kinsmanstoves]

It's all relative - if I would have told you 10 years ago that folks would be standing in line and throwing money at dealers for $5000+ pellet stove installs and $325 tons to go with them.....you'd have said I was nuts.

Umbrellas cost a lot more in a storm, and water more in a desert.

Hey, Craig, you changed your avatar. What happened to you doing what looked like browsing at an outdoor market?

I wanna know what is in the cup?

Eric

 

[webbie]

According to the fuel comarison tool at pelletheat.org, even at $500 per ton I would be saving over buring my propane at $2.96 a gallon! That makes me a feel really good about my 4 tons at $279.00 delivered, but it's still a little too high. I'd love to meet the person who buys those pellets!

Well, I guess the question about PR Barnum would also mean that one should not always believe the calculator which sits on the site that REPRESENTS ALL THE PELLET MAKERS....

But that's probably obvious.....

 

[trogers]

According to the fuel comarison tool at pelletheat.org, even at $500 per ton I would be saving over buring my propane at $2.96 a gallon! That makes me a feel really good about my 4 tons at $279.00 delivered, but it's still a little too high. I'd love to meet the person who buys those pellets!

Well, I guess the question about PR Barnum would also mean that one should not always believe the calculator which sits on the site that REPRESENTS ALL THE PELLET MAKERS....

But that's probably obvious.....

"I had 615 gallons of propane delivered from 5/23/07 through 11/29/07, which at today’s cost would be $1553.00

So far this year from 5/7/08 through 11/18/08 I have had 253 gallons delivered at a cost of $527.00. If I factor in the 35 bags of pellets used so far at $195.00 this leaves me with savings of a measly $831.00!

I’m a “second guesser” by nature, and I suffer from buyer’s remorse on pretty much every large purchase...but, not this one. I paid around $5,800 dollars for propane last year. At this pace, I can assume about $1950.00 in savings this year, which will return my investment in two years...and, that’s if propane prices don’t go up!"

This is copied from a post that I made on another topic, but guess it applies here as well. Yeah, I agree that the calculator I used would favor using pellets over other fuels, but my numbers are my numbers. And, my assumptions may not be dead-on accurate for the whole winter either, but I will have saved a lot of money in the process. Of course, I also realize I'm looking at a Return on Investment rather than a pure savings this year (or the next few years), but the same could be said about any change from one fuel to another...except maybe a deal like the the gas company when installing free equipment if people switch from oil. Of course, in that example you are exchanging one single option for another single option.

The bottom line is that everyone (granted, this represent only 20-25 people in NH & MA) I know that has installed a pellet stove over the past few years has reported significant savings over Oil and Propane. Now, what I have not been able to figure out yet is why the webmaster of a hearth forum usually sounds like he is down-playing the value of alternative fuels. Your signature says that you love paying taxes...so maybe you just don't appreciate the savings as much as some others do. Also, many of us consider pellets to be a "two-for" option that provide a significant financial benefit...as well as a sizeable environmental benefit.

Pellets are a cost effective alternative to roller coaster that is Oil & Propane. But, that's probably obvious...

 

[webbie]

Pellets are a cost effective alternative to roller coaster that is Oil & Propane. But, that's probably obvious...

Nah, what is obvious is that they "can be" or "could possibly be in some cases".

Not "are".

The whole idea of PT Barnum is mass hypnosis. If Pellets were so great, why was the industry almost 100% gone one year ago? Most of the same reasons (green, etc.) were valid then.

It was price and price along.....and fear which created the boom.

Using history as a guide, if you take every year for the past 10 years and compare the price of LP, Oil and Pellets you might come up with some interesting stats.

That's why we use "could be" or "can be".

LP can be a killer - in some places. But the prices seem to vary greatly...like pellets! We have users reporting under $200 a ton, and others over $300. That is a big difference.

Things change. The main thing is that folks should keep a level head and not use the method of "my neighbor says he saves $2,000" as the reason to make an investment.

 

[HD41]

This is my second season with a pellet stove and reading the forum. I wondered why the Webmaster seemed to rain on the pellet parade. I bought a low end stove and installed it myself and have been able to get pellets for less than $200 per ton. My cash outlay payback with fuel oil @2.64/gal is about 3 years or @2.19/gal is 6 years. This places no value on the time hauling and stacking pellets, feeding and maintaining the stove. I have a friend who purchased a Harmon stove and had it professionally installed, If I had done his way, my payback would be 6 to 12 years. I am satisfied with my pellet stove but not necessarily on a return on investment basis. In carefully reading the many posts by the Webmaster, I believe he is “telling it like it is”. I agree with the “can be” concept but the most you may do “may be” is to break even.

 

[Lobstah]

The sig doesn't say he likes paying taxes...it's a quote from Justice Holmes...so maybe he does, maybe he doesn't

As for saving "tons" (pun intented) ...I think the only way you save tons is if you're burning wood, and cutting your OWN wood. This is somewhat of a free market economy we live in. When there's more demand, vendors are going to raise their prices to what the market will bear. Might not be as big of a bump/valley as oil, but the curves will be very similar. The guy I used to buy stovewood from had about 1,000 cords all split up. That's from a year or two years ago. Summer 2007, seasoned wood from him was $150/cord. Now it's $325/cord. Same wood.

Right now, pellets are high. Dealers paid a high price when they bought their current inventory. They'll stay high, even with oil this low, until someone says, "Hey...we have to start moving stock, period." Then prices will drop, because they're competing with oil.

One advantage over oil is that you are supporting your local economy, although with HHO, you're also supporting your local dealer, and the local guy who drives the truck, etc.

Jim

Jim

 

[sydney1963]

Oil prices will go back up, it's just a matter of time.

 

[trogers]

Pellets are a cost effective alternative to roller coaster that is Oil & Propane. But, that's probably obvious...

Nah, what is obvious is that they "can be" or "could possibly be in some cases".

Not "are".

The whole idea of PT Barnum is mass hypnosis. If Pellets were so great, why was the industry almost 100% gone one year ago? Most of the same reasons (green, etc.) were valid then.

It was price and price along.....and fear which created the boom.

Using history as a guide, if you take every year for the past 10 years and compare the price of LP, Oil and Pellets you might come up with some interesting stats.

That's why we use "could be" or "can be".

LP can be a killer - in some places. But the prices seem to vary greatly...like pellets! We have users reporting under $200 a ton, and others over $300. That is a big difference.

Things change. The main thing is that folks should keep a level head and not use the method of "my neighbor says he saves $2,000" as the reason to make an investment.

I don't agree with looking back over a 10 year period. It is true that you can looks the the price of most commodities and find lower prices as you go back over a 10 year window, but the reality is that siince about October of 2005 ( http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/whoreus4w.htm ) oil has been significantly higher than the previous 7 or so years. I also realize that there is a low cycle right now in the oil prices, which is coinciding with a significant downturn in the economy, but this will not last. OPEC has already reduced production a few times to slow the downward trend, and they will be sure to continue working towards the $100 dollar per barrell goal.

Now, propane is another animal completely. If you look at this information ( http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/twip/twip_propane.html ) you will see that the wholesale price of $162.10 for this time last year represented 66% of the retail price of $$244.90. Same week this year shows that the wholesale price of $81.20 represents only 33% of the retail price of $241.10. The profit margin is currently around double what it was last year.

Pellets are high right now, this is not up for debate. But, if you use the example of a 10 year picture...what does the picture look like? My neighbor who has burned pellets for the past 8 years tells me that he paid on average around $220 per ton for every year before this year, and he paid $240 per ton this year when he bought in May. So, we know that the pellet industry has taken off this year and has set records for the number of stoves sold. The pellet production channel was completely caught off guard (their fault) and the result is much higher than normal pellet cost. I am reading articles on a fairly regular basis that talk about new pellet manufacturing plants coming on line. Also, when housing picks up again it is reasonable to assume that there will be an increase in waste wood available for pellet manufacturers, which will lessen the inflationary impact on pricing. In the long run, it seems that pellets are a more reasonable bet than oil or propane. Please be clear...I am not saying that pellets are the answer to all our problems...but, we know that oil and propane aren't the right long-term solution either.

As far as the pellet industry being near extinction last year, that is no surprise. I can't believe how bad of a job the industry has done before this year to market itself. Had anyone ever seen a commercial for pellet or corn heat prior to this year? I read about 6 magazines a month and could not remember seeing an article or ad for the pellet industry. The industry as a whole had done a terrible job getting the word out on the price effectiveness of their product, and they had failed to connect themselves with the green movement in a meaningful way. Hopefully, the oil price increase of 2008 has woken up the industry so it will be poised to capitalize on the current momentum.

Have a warm day!