P61a flame issues

[xjarcher]

My Harman is producing BIG lazy flames of late. It's also producing lots of ash with no change in pellet brand. I have to do a COMPLETE clean about every 1/2 ton to keep it running well. It's never behaved like this but it doesn't show any codes or any thing. The current pellets are better quality than what I used to run. It starts out with lots of fly ash and as it progresses there are some pellets that aren't completely burned. Clean it, flame is stout and runs well for 2O or so bags. BTW I normally get 10-12 hours per bag and now I'm down to 8 with same brand of pellet. Some thoughts please.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

My Harman is producing BIG lazy flames of late. It's also producing lots of ash with no change in pellet brand. I have to do a COMPLETE clean about every 1/2 ton to keep it running well. It's never behaved like this but it doesn't show any codes or any thing. The current pellets are better quality than what I used to run. It starts out with lots of fly ash and as it progresses there are some pellets that aren't completely burned. Clean it, flame is stout and runs well for 2O or so bags. BTW I normally get 10-12 hours per bag and now I'm down to 8 with same brand of pellet. Some thoughts please.

Have you cleaned your ESP and the vent system lately or checked your door gasket?

 

[xjarcher]

Yep, full clean includes both of those. could do The vent again, skipped it last time as it was -17f

 

[Bigjim13]

Is it putting out less heat than usual with those big lazy flames? Are you running in stove temp or room temp? I ask because sometimes in room temp the flame gets kinda lazy as the stove cycles down after it's hit the desired temp.

I guess it could be the door gasket, I haven't had to change mine yet (knock on wood). The unburnt pellets could be a feed rate issue, not sure about that though.

 

[AVIVIII]

Are your unburned pellets getting pushed over the edge?

What do you have the feed trim set on? I'm wondering if it might be set too high. For Vermont and Okanagan, I set the trim to 2 and for lesser quality I am running closer to 3.

It sounds like you already do pretty thorough cleanings, but do you clean the holes in the burn pot and the igniter bay?

 

[kayakmom]

We had the same exact problem for a long time on our P61A. Now every day when my husband gets home he opens the burn pot real fast and cleans out things. It smells and I whine but the stove seems to run a lot better. We've had a pretty tight flame since he started doing this. We messed with settings last night trying to make it warmer in here. We were normally running on 2.5 feed, about 75 room temp, and low. Right now it's on high and 90 with the normal 2.5 feed and the flame is big and floppy and it's no warmer in here. I'm thinking I should put it back. I was just calling hubby to find out what to do when I read this thread.

If it's already running all the time, does turning the temp up really do anything?
Does room temp high vs. room temp low make the blower more powerful or something?

When we turned the feed adjuster to 3 vs. the normal 2.5 the day before yesterday, a lot of unburned pellets were going by. It's back on 2.5 now and seems to be burning them up now, albeit with this bit huge flame that's hitting the top of the burn pot.

Our problem is mainly that we're heating a 3200 square foot house with one lonely P61A. I've got to give it major kudos but when it gets below about 20 or 25 degrees, it has a hard time keeping up.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

How is it vented? lease list diameter of pipe and every componant you have in the system.

Eric

 

[HEMI]

We had the same exact problem for a long time on our P61A. Now every day when my husband gets home he opens the burn pot real fast and cleans out things. It smells and I whine but the stove seems to run a lot better. We've had a pretty tight flame since he started doing this. We messed with settings last night trying to make it warmer in here. We were normally running on 2.5 feed, about 75 room temp, and low. Right now it's on high and 90 with the normal 2.5 feed and the flame is big and floppy and it's no warmer in here. I'm thinking I should put it back. I was just calling hubby to find out what to do when I read this thread.

If it's already running all the time, does turning the temp up really do anything?
Does room temp high vs. room temp low make the blower more powerful or something?

When we turned the feed adjuster to 3 vs. the normal 2.5 the day before yesterday, a lot of unburned pellets were going by. It's back on 2.5 now and seems to be burning them up now, albeit with this bit huge flame that's hitting the top of the burn pot.

Our problem is mainly that we're heating a 3200 square foot house with one lonely P61A. I've got to give it major kudos but when it gets below about 20 or 25 degrees, it has a hard time keeping up.

i heat 2200 sq ft with my p43, but i run in stove mode, simply because i feel its constant heat without the up an down that room temp will give you, room temp is ok in the shoulder season but not in the dead of winter when trying to heat the entire house, switch it over to stove mode see how it works out for ya

 

[Bigjim13]

We had the same exact problem for a long time on our P61A. Now every day when my husband gets home he opens the burn pot real fast and cleans out things. It smells and I whine but the stove seems to run a lot better. We've had a pretty tight flame since he started doing this. We messed with settings last night trying to make it warmer in here. We were normally running on 2.5 feed, about 75 room temp, and low. Right now it's on high and 90 with the normal 2.5 feed and the flame is big and floppy and it's no warmer in here. I'm thinking I should put it back. I was just calling hubby to find out what to do when I read this thread.

If it's already running all the time, does turning the temp up really do anything?
Does room temp high vs. room temp low make the blower more powerful or something?

When we turned the feed adjuster to 3 vs. the normal 2.5 the day before yesterday, a lot of unburned pellets were going by. It's back on 2.5 now and seems to be burning them up now, albeit with this bit huge flame that's hitting the top of the burn pot.

Our problem is mainly that we're heating a 3200 square foot house with one lonely P61A. I've got to give it major kudos but when it gets below about 20 or 25 degrees, it has a hard time keeping up.

I would try turning that feed rate up, seems to low for that setting. I do find it odd that you are getting unburned pellets also at that feed rate. Even the manual says to set it at 4 and leave it.

Have you tried running it in stove temp? When it gets cold and stays cold I put it in stove temp and let it crank. The P61 is a beast, this weekend it never got about 5* and sunday was -25. I set it on stove temp, feed rate 5 and turned the blower all the way up and the temp setting at 6. Stayed nice and toasty.

It takes a bit of playing around but once you find the right setting for the pellet your burning and the temps your looking for...wow!

 

[kayakmom]

Thanks. We'll try turning it over to stove temp. Last year when we had the problems like the OP, our installer thought that it might have been a pipe size issue, too, and they changed it. At that time, it didn't help solve the problem. Husband said he cleans off the burn area daily and does a full clean about once a month or less, including the igniter area.

Ours was working great this year until we messed with the temp and feed rate the other night. Will report back after trying it on stove temp.

Thanks for all the input and sorry to OP if I hijacked but seem to be having similar problems with the same unit.

 

[Lousyweather]

where is the probe placed? What is the feed rate setting? If the probe is somewhere cold, the feeder is likely overfeeding pellets........time the feed.....if set on, say 3, and it runs for 30 secs/minute, its overfeeding (basically running at it's max feed rate).....try moving the probe and/or lowering the feed rate setting.....

 

[AVIVIII]

Everything may be significantly different with the P61 than with the P68, But mine gets really dirty and real hungry with feed settings above 3.

 

[Whimpster]

I'm running a Harmon P61 as well, I run it in stove mode during the colder season....big difference!
I had in the past run the stove in temp mode but found it very hard to maintain the temperature's on the upper floors,now it's stove mode for me set at 3 or 4 on stove mode, fan on high... feed rate at 3 to 4.
Don't see were I use anymore pellets in stove mode just a warmer house!!
Heating 2200 sq ft 3 floors.
About to install a Jamestown J2001T pellet insert to take a bit of the pressure of the harmon on those very cold days and nights.
I average 18 to 20 hours per bag at present.

 

[Bigjim13]

I'm running a Harmon P61 as well, I run it in stove mode during the colder season....big difference!
I had in the past run the stove in temp mode but found it very hard to maintain the temperature's on the upper floors,now it's stove mode for me set at 3 or 4 on stove mode, fan on high... feed rate at 3 to 4.
Don't see were I use anymore pellets in stove mode just a warmer house!!
Heating 2200 sq ft 3 floors.
About to install a Jamestown J2001T pellet insert to take a bit of the pressure of the harmon on those very cold days and nights.
I average 18 to 20 hours per bag at present.

I think my biggest issue with running in Room Temp mode is the fact that the sensor probe is only about 3' long. It sits next to the stove so it doesn't really know what the temp is in the other rooms or other end of the house. In stove temp mode I can play with the settings to get it warm in the main room and warm in other parts of the house as well.

I know you could probably extend the probe but I had a bad experience trying to do so have just left it alone...

 

[Whimpster]

I'm running a Harmon P61 as well, I run it in stove mode during the colder season....big difference!
I had in the past run the stove in temp mode but found it very hard to maintain the temperature's on the upper floors,now it's stove mode for me set at 3 or 4 on stove mode, fan on high... feed rate at 3 to 4.
Don't see were I use anymore pellets in stove mode just a warmer house!!
Heating 2200 sq ft 3 floors.
About to install a Jamestown J2001T pellet insert to take a bit of the pressure of the harmon on those very cold days and nights.
I average 18 to 20 hours per bag at present.

I think my biggest issue with running in Room Temp mode is the fact that the sensor probe is only about 3' long. It sits next to the stove so it doesn't really know what the temp is in the other rooms or other end of the house. In stove temp mode I can play with the settings to get it warm in the main room and warm in other parts of the house as well.

I know you could probably extend the probe but I had a bad experience trying to do so have just left it alone...

I did extend the probe about 20 feet still had a 5 to 6 temp swing on the other floors...stove mode works much better for me....my stove is in the basement.
I use fans to move the cold air from other rooms pointed in the direction of the heat source.

 

[xjarcher]

Good information last night!
My P61 is in room mode as the dealer said it worked best when cold. Right now temp is maxed out, feed rate is just under 3. Temp sensor is just above stove height and 4 feet from it. We had a slight warm up yesterday, (29*) and it seemed to run a little better. From what I read some are suggesting a switch to stove temp? oops, stove is in the basement, vented with typical piping off the stove to a cleanout T and up to the cold air thimble and out 3 feet. Cold air intake via pvc from thimble to flex tube at rear of stove.

 

[summit]

spark screen on the end of the vent is coated w/ flyash, thus restricting your exhaust flow.

 

[kayakmom]

We have an OAK with a 3' pipe. We switched to stove mode last night and the flame was still big but tighter. Husband was happier with it that way but upstairs reads 56* and downstairs 58* this morning so I'm still not giving up my warm blankies! It's no warmer than it was on room temp. I suspect it's because of the size and layout of the room, with french doors above leading to my room where the heat rises. The outside temp needs to raise above 12* and then maybe our house can be warm again. Good luck, OP. I hope you find a setting that works well for you.

 

[xjarcher]

spark screen on the end of the vent is coated w/ flyash, thus restricting your exhaust flow.

I don't have a spark screen, matter of fact I don't even have a turn down yet. I spent a ton on the stove and piping so that has to wait. Or I get one made by a friend who works with stainless steel.
I switched to stove temp this morning. we'll see how it goes this week.

 

[Harman Lover 007]

My $.02 since I have a P61A as well. It is an absolute MUST to run in the stove temp mode in this extreme cold in the NE. Room temp just doesn't cut it. Set the feed rate at 3.5 and forget it. Your stove is modern enough to compensate for differing pellets. In stove temp mode with the dial set on 5 or 6, you should have a large flame coming out of the burn pot nearly touching the heat exchanger at the top of the stove. If you run it wide open on 7 that stove should be driving you out. As a previous poster said there is plenty of backbone to the P61A. If yours wont do this, you've got other issues.

Harman Feed Rate 101: The feed rate really has nothing to do with how the stove runs unless you are running it at near or full capacity or you are running from cold startup and are trying to warm up a very cold space. The feed rate you set is a MAX of what the stove will feed when it is required to feed pellets aggressively. As your manual states, the way to make sure you have the correct rate is to put it in stove temp mode, run it full blast for 30 minutes and the face of the ash should be about 1 inch from the top of the burn pot. If it is isn't you adjust feed rate up a little. If it is spilling over you adjust it down a little. Hope this helps.

 

[xjarcher]

I have been running about 3 and my ash is very close to the end and the burn is about 1.5" from the edge. I'll see what the switch to Stove temp does and then adjust the feed a bit. Good science (I teach elementary) says only adjust one thing at a time.

 

[kayakmom]

Ran stove temp today. Flame looks good. Blower is on high. Set for about 87* with feed rate 2. Ash is slightly less than normal. Burned slightly less pellets than usual. House is only about as warm as it ever is. (Less pellets burned maybe because feed rate is slightly slower?)

 

[Bigjim13]

Ran stove temp today. Flame looks good. Blower is on high. Set for about 87* with feed rate 2. Ash is slightly less than normal. Burned slightly less pellets than usual. House is only about as warm as it ever is. (Less pellets burned maybe because feed rate is slightly slower?)

Just curious why did you turn the feed rate down? Try doing a search on Harman and Feed rate, you will come up with a few threads about how the feed rates on this stove actually work. It was an eye opener to me, I know that much. I still think its set to low, but I'm still fairly new at this also (in my 3rd season now).

It seems to me that your stove, set on those temps and blower speeds should be cranking out the heat. Mine, right now, is set on stove temp, temp dial at 4 and the blower in the middle position. I was actually thinking I needed to turn it down. There could be something else going on there but like I said, I'm still relatively new at this.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

spark screen on the end of the vent is coated w/ flyash, thus restricting your exhaust flow.

I don't have a spark screen, matter of fact I don't even have a turn down yet. I spent a ton on the stove and piping so that has to wait. Or I get one made by a friend who works with stainless steel.
I switched to stove temp this morning. we'll see how it goes this week.

Not venting into the prevailing wind are you?

That can be as restrictive as a plugged termination cap if there is any wind.

 

[Harman Lover 007]

Ran stove temp today. Flame looks good. Blower is on high. Set for about 87* with feed rate 2. Ash is slightly less than normal. Burned slightly less pellets than usual. House is only about as warm as it ever is. (Less pellets burned maybe because feed rate is slightly slower?)

Did you try what I suggested in post# 19?? A feed rate of 2 will not supply enough pellets to get that baby cranking when you have it set on 87 degrees.