Pacifc Energy - looking for some information

[swestall]

Hey Mike and All, When we were going through this we looked at most of the stoves on the Planet. I was pretty close to going with the T-6; just because it was a tad bigger than the T5. I also like the Summit but the look of steel doesn't fit out house. Then we went to look at the Hearthstone's and my wife said she really like the look; which I didn't think she would at all. (unpredicatable they are).
I'd have gone for the Equinox, but the Mansfield was in stock and at an end of season price, I took it. Its been in for long enough that I can comment on it. Our house is 2400 SQ/FT with one room that is large with Cathedral ceilings on the slant 9ft/16ft and 25X40 feet L/W. My Defiant CAT and Encore CAT heated it; so I should have stuck with them. But, I fell for the BS and went with the new improved Defiant NC. (ANIGHTMARE).
Since putting in the Mansfield I'm having good luck. My first floor zone was not operating (bad zone control valve) and I didn't know it. After casual maintenance burning in the eve. we load up at around 9:30PM and get it hot (450-550) then add one more split to compensate for the burn off at 10:30 or so. At 6AM we have lots of coals and the stovetop is down to 250-300. The house has cooled off from 72 up/70down to 66up/63 down. The furnace still doesn't come on even though its set at 63 and fixed. Our temps here have been in the single digits for the past few weeks overnight and up to the 20's daytime. If I pushed the stove more I could get more heat out, but I don't need to. And, I'm still learning it and how to push it; am taking that learning process slow.
The best news is that my wife gets up first, when she comes down she rakes the coals a bit, adds a couple of splits and shuts the door. By the time I get down, all is well the temp is coming up and I top it off and go to work. We get home at 5:30PM and the house is warm, 65 or so down/ 68 up.
I have nothing but good things to say about the Mansfield. I also think the Aldera T5 or 6 would have produced the same results for us. My only problem with the Isle Royale was that the secondary burn assy rotates on open/close and I wondered how that would hold up over a 10-15 year timeframe.
If I were into the look of steel, I'd have just gone for the Summit Classic as it is one nice unit; but that look wouldn't go in our house.
In another thread, I'd commented that letting the temps float down a bit is part of living with wood burning. Unless you want to get up in middle of the night to reload. Last night I threw another two small splits on at 4AM ( I was up anyway) and my temp stayed up through 9AM. I prefer letting it cool off a tad for sleeping anyway and a full night's sleep without reloading is nice for me.
Am interested in hearing about Tom's T6 evaluation; he's always pretty much on the mark!
Best to All,
Steve.

 

[mikeathens]

I would like to see the results on the PE T6. I have been out of the loop both with the forum and wood burning since saturday...we headed to the hospital on the 26th, and a baby girl popped out on the 27th at 5 pm. Eleanor Mae, 6lb 9.5 oz Needless to say, my heat pump has run more than my wood stove for the past couple of days. Just got her fired up and heating the house again yesterday.

If only that T6 could maintain 400 F for 5 or more hours...I'd be set

Still looking for a good data set on surface temps for the T6!! I also wonder if anyone has doen this for the Heritage (just to compare) and the Mansfield (swestall??? I think this is your strong suit??)

At least I'm off for the next 6 weeks to baby sit the chickens, cats, dog, 2 1/2 year-old, and newborn!! Oh, and the wood stove

 

[Gunner]

Congratulations!

Mike...the T6 is the SAME as the Summit. Read my posts above ^^^

8-9hrs above 400 in no problem....pics above show 325deg stovetop after 13 1/2 hrs burning sugar maple.

 

[thechimneysweep]

We've been putting a T6 through its paces at a buddy's house for a couple of months now, and so far my impression is that it is actually a slight improvement over the Summit. Same firebox and burning characteristics, but the cast iron seems to do a better job of turning radiant energy into heated air. Like the Summit models, burn time is best-of-class. We had a little cold spell the past few days with temps in the low teens, and the T6 just purred away, 75 degrees downstairs and 68 upstairs, hot coals 10 hours later.

The T6 replaced an Olympic Airtight model that was the size of a barn (didn't measure the firebox when we hauled it away, but it burned 26" wood). The T6 is doing a far better job of heating the house, especially the far-flung rooms, and going through MUCH less wood. Burning mostly Birch, Doug Fir, some Cherry. The record for a "no match reload" so far is 16 hours, with a load of Cherry.

 

[snowtime]

Hey Tom, are you using the stock fan with that T6. If not how do you think the T6 would do without a fan. I am thinking about no power situations. Thanks

 

[thechimneysweep]

The T6 we're playing with doesn't have a fan on it. PE's design puts the convection openings at top and bottom, so there's lots of airflow in at the bottom and out at the top all the time just from heated air rising. There are wide doorways in the 3-room main floor where the stove is, and the stairway to the upstairs is right around the corner. Pretty open floor plan, the heat circulates fine.

 

[rmcfall]

I am just curious...why are temps of 550 not enough? In that case, a soapstone stove would not ever do the trick since they seem to run between 500-600.

Mike,
The big difference is not only going to be the burn time, but the operating temps. If my stove "topped" out at 550deg I would be cold too...no matter how long it burned for. With this weather I reload at 400 and peak out at 750.

 

[Highbeam]

There are two issues here. The soapstone will get to and hold that 550 for a long time rather than being peaky between 400 and 750. There is a good chance that on average both stove stoves are about 500 overall.

The other one is that if you have a little rock at 550 it won't heat the room but a big huge rock at 550 will heat the neighborhood. It isn't so much the actual temperature as it is the amount of energy being delivered to the room. Mike needs a bigger rock. Gunner's rock is too small at 550 but plenty big at 750.

I'll admit at being near the top end of my heritage's capacity with 1700 SF of poorly insulated house. If I cruise with the stove at 300-400 on medium burn as the manufacturer recommends for the "typical" setting then it wouldn't keep my home above 70 on these 35 degree days. I need to burn it hotter to keep up until I can get my heat loss under control with more insualtion and windows. After all of those improvemets I believe that my heritage will be sufficient at lower temps.

 

[Gunner]

I am just curious...why are temps of 550 not enough? In that case, a soapstone stove would not ever do the trick since they seem to run between 500-600.

Mike,
The big difference is not only going to be the burn time, but the operating temps. If my stove "topped" out at 550deg I would be cold too...no matter how long it burned for. With this weather I reload at 400 and peak out at 750.

When it's real cold 550 ain't enough. 550 is for the spring and fall.

Someone posted here before that a stove is putting out like 100x more heat at 600 than at 500...don't know if that true or not.

I don't want to be limited as to how hot I can run the stove. When it's -20 it's nice to bring the house up from 65 to 72 asap, not take all day.

My 500 pound rock holds heat just fine...takes 8-9hrs to cool off to 400deg.

 

[Rich L]

Good Day Gunner,man how do you get those long burn times from your Summit.I purchased my Summit last spring and I'm getting a disappointing 5 hour burn times no way near the overnight burns that the Summit people said the stove wood produce.I mean your in Ontario where it gets much colder than my Eastern Massachusetts however your burn times dwarf mine.What am I doing wrong and what are you doing right?

 

[thechimneysweep]

Rich, the Summit gets 8-10 hours on a load, even here in the Pacific NW where we burn wood you wouldn't chip up for beauty bark.

The two big burn time shorteners are bad fuelwood and air intrusion into the firebox.

What kind of wood are you burning? Is it properly seasoned? Are you packing the firebox full when you want the long burn?

Have you checked your door seal? PE doors are sold separately, so the first time your door met your stove was when the installer hung it on there.

Try this, when the stove is cold: close the door on a dollar bill and tug, repeating all the way around the perimeter of the door. You should feel resistance created by the door gasket. If you don't, take a hammer and tap the top of the door catch (on the left side of the door) lightly to bend it in a bit, and retry the bill test. Tap and test until the gasket has friction against the bill.

 

[Rich L]

Hi Tom,thanks for the input.Not only am I not getting those burn times,my stove doesn't even throw off the heat that you folks get.The fire box is roaring however and when I open the door to put in more wood in feels like a blast furnace.Now if I could just get more of that heat into the room I'd be all set.My wood is the best well seasoned hardwood around which does well in my Mansfield and my Woodstock when I had it hooked up.but not in the summit.I will try the dollar bill test.I even put in a pipe damper to try to achieve longer burn times and more heat dispersal.No success as yet.Besides the dollar bill test are there any other places I should check for air intrusion?Some have mentioned some tab that they have knock out of the stove.I don't know what that is and should this be done for proper stove functioning?Thanks again for your input.

 

[iceman]

Hi Tom,thanks for the input.Not only am I not getting those burn times,my stove doesn't even throw off the heat that you folks get.The fire box is roaring however and when I open the door to put in more wood in feels like a blast furnace.Now if I could just get more of that heat into the room I'd be all set.My wood is the best well seasoned hardwood around which does well in my Mansfield and my Woodstock when I had it hooked up.but not in the summit.I will try the dollar bill test.I even put in a pipe damper to try to achieve longer burn times and more heat dispersal.No success as yet.Besides the dollar bill test are there any other places I should check for air intrusion?Some have mentioned some tab that they have knock out of the stove.I don't know what that is and should this be done for proper stove functioning?Thanks again for your input.

even when you close the air all the way down... i put mine under the L at 6am came home at 330 stove is 300-325 and enough to coals to start it up again

 

[thechimneysweep]

The Summit will outheat the Mansfield every time, so something is definitely not right here. First, look on the back of the pedestal: you'll either find a 4" round hole, or a 4" round knockout plate with a sticker saying "remove for room air." If the plate is still in place, knock it out.

Next, let the stove cool down and make sure the door catch is adjusted properly as outlined above.

While the stove is cold, make sure your baffle box is in place. It should be all the way to the back, so the rectangular hole is on the rectangular airfeed tube that extends up the rear of the firebox. At the bottom rear of the baffle box, you'll see a little metal tab with a hole in it. This should be lined up with a corresponding hole in the back of the firebox, and have a steel pushpin going through the tab and into the hole.

Finally, if you have an ash drawer, make sure the spring-loaded trapdoor is closed, and not caught up on a piece of charcoal or something. Scoop a couple of inches of ash into the chute to ensure an airtight seal.

 

[Gunner]

Rich, here is a pic of the knockout.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/14507/P45/ post#47

I don't know what to tell you.... 3cuft (60lbs) is alot of wood/ heat, how your burning it up in 5hrs and getting little heat has me stumped.

 

[Rich L]

The Summit will outheat the Mansfield every time, so something is definitely not right here. First, look on the back of the pedestal: you'll either find a 4" round hole, or a 4" round knockout plate with a sticker saying "remove for room air." If the plate is still in place, knock it out.

Next, let the stove cool down and make sure the door catch is adjusted properly as outlined above.

While the stove is cold, make sure your baffle box is in place. It should be all the way to the back, so the rectangular hole is on the rectangular airfeed tube that extends up the rear of the firebox. At the bottom rear of the baffle box, you'll see a little metal tab with a hole in it. This should be lined up with a corresponding hole in the back of the firebox, and have a steel pushpin going through the tab and into the hole.

Finally, if you have an ash drawer, make sure the spring-loaded trapdoor is closed, and not caught up on a piece of charcoal or something. Scoop a couple of inches of ash into the chute to ensure an airtight seal.

Hi Tom,thanks for the input.Ifollowed your advice and noticed the baffle box is all the way back and in place.I saw the metal tab with the hole in line with the hole in the back of the fire box.The only thing I don't see is the steel pushpin going through the tab and into the hole.Could this be the cause of my stove operating in a subpar manner?I didn't notice this part in the manual.What's the technical name for this part so I can order it.Thanks.

 

[thechimneysweep]

The pin is just a piece of 3/16" round stock, bent over at the end, put in to keep the baffle box in place for shipping. If you think you might dislodge the baffle (like when you're cramming that ONE LAST piece in for the long burn), you can substitute a bolt if you want.

 

[Rich L]

Thanks Tom I'll put a bolt in it's place.I'm getting 5-6 hr burns after all your suggestions and when I rise in the morning I have enough coals to restart the fire.That's as good as it gets for me.I refuse to get up at 4am to feed the stove,I wouldn't get back to sleep.I'll just remain covered until 6am and then restart the fire.The fire will be long burned out by the time I get home from work.This arrangement is frustrating however the woodstock soapstone will do the job.I'll say this I won't dare put the Mansfield on the hearth where the Summit is now it's too powerful.In conclusion I'm selling the Summit thus ending that wood burning experience.

 

[Gunner]

Thanks Tom I'll put a bolt in it's place.I'm getting 5-6 hr burns after all your suggestions and when I rise in the morning I have enough coals to restart the fire.That's as good as it gets for me.I refuse to get up at 4am to feed the stove,I wouldn't get back to sleep.I'll just remain covered until 6am and then restart the fire.The fire will be long burned out by the time I get home from work.This arrangement is frustrating however the woodstock soapstone will do the job.I'll say this I won't dare put the Mansfield on the hearth where the Summit is now it's too powerful.In conclusion I'm selling the Summit thus ending that wood burning experience.

If your dead set on selling it...so be it, but there are a few people here who I am sure could help you get things worked out. There are many, many satisfied summit users out there, myself included. 99.9% of the time it is NOT the stove, but problems with draft, wood, or the operator.

1. Chimney height, interior/exterior?
2. Stove location- basement or main floor?
3. Wood?
4. Have you done the dollar bill test?
5. Removed the knockout?
6. What are your stovetop and or stack temps?

 

[Hogwildz]

What would really suck is to pay for yet another stove, and you won't get all your money back on the first one..... then realize its the same problem all over again.
I missed, but what type wood are you burning?

 

[Rich L]

Good Day gentlemen,I appreciate your input.Gunner I do hate the thought of selling the stove since it may be something that I'm missing.I bought the stove because of what I read on this Forum.I read about so many Summit users from Canada who love the stove it had me thinking that if this stove works so well in Canada with it's sub-zero temps then it will surely work in Eastern Mass area.Extreme cold here is-5 to -7 degrees sometimes(rarely gets that low)No where near Canadian temperatures.My wood is seasoned oak,maple, apple ,birch,and some well seasoned elm all great burning wood.I haven't taken the stove top temps but I will tonight.I think I'll ad another length to my out side chimney though the draft seems to be fine as is.Fortunately if I finally do decide to replace the stove I already have the Woodstock Classic stove that the Mansfield replaced.I did the door adjustment that Tom suggested after the dollar test showed that at the bottom of the door the dollar flunked the test.I tap the latch piece and it did tighten up the door and caused the dollar resistance to be pulled out.My stove is on the main floor on an enclosed porch.I need it to provide heat mainly for the second floor.When I open the porch door leading into the house the upstairs steps are right there and the heat flows up the steps and heats the second floor.Past stoves have accomplished this task.They were all wood/coal burners,with the coal I could get 17 hours of heat with the wood 4hrs.So I was looking for a wood stove that would give me 8hours of heat or more.I thought this stove would be it though to this point it hasn't done the job. I appreciate all of your input and encouragement and I'll keep you posted.

 

[Gunner]

So it's an exterior chimney. How tall is it?

Is the screened in porch insulated? How big?

You have done the dollar bill test, that's good. What about the knockout, is it removed?

Look forward to hearing your stovetop temps...they will tell the tale, 3cuft of dry wood holds alot of btu's...

 

[Rich L]

So it's an exterior chimney. How tall is it?

Is the screened in porch insulated? How big?

You have done the dollar bill test, that's good. What about the knockout, is it removed?

Look forward to hearing your stovetop temps...they will tell the tale, 3cuft of dry wood holds alot of btu's...

Hi Gunner,yes the porch is insulated and paneled.The Exterior pipe is about twenty feet high.The porch is 10'x25'.I recently removed the knock out,thanks for that picture of it very helpful.My stove is at 750 degrees at this writing and is dampered down.Well that's update,what do you think?

 

[Gunner]

I would say now that you have the knockout removed and a thermo, run it for a few days. That being said, your problem is the location of the stove. What exactly is the insulation of the porch? is it 75% glass? a single door to the house? 750deg stove in 250sqft...you are heating the neighborhood. A space heater needs to be IN the living space.