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PC45 - no power to air pump or igniter

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Northwoodneil, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. Northwoodneil

    Northwoodneil Feeling the Heat

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    Hi all, I've been absent around here for while but now I need help. My pc45 won't ignite. I figured the air pump went out and burned up the igniter but I hot wired it and it works and the igniter ohms to about 40(a little weak but ok). The pump doesn't run (or igniter) when it calls for heat. I can light it manually and it runs fine. The fuse is good just no power to the ignition system. Vac switch checks out. Is this a board issue? I haven't ohmed any of the feed wires but it worked when I shut it off and now nothing. It was unplugged until I tried a couple days ago, so I don't think it was lightning struck.

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  2. Bioburner

    Bioburner Minister of Fire

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    Welcome back. Getting a jump on the heating season unfortunately. Was into the 40s here and dipped below freezing farther North. Did you check the vac switch before firing? If the switch isn't closed it wont fire the ignition cycle. I had a misfire because a poor ash bin gasket, but could manually fire and the fire helped increased the vacuum when the flue warmed up. Good luck
  3. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    That pump from Harman is like $400....!!!!!!! Had a customer that needed one, I went to Petco and got one for $9 in the aquarium section, works awesome and is quieter.
  4. Bioburner

    Bioburner Minister of Fire

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    Thanks for the tip Scott. Will have to check out Petco next time I get near one for a spare. Totally nuts for a air pump to cost that much. I just replaced a air compressor, a Quincy industrial twin, 6 hp., and it was about that much.
  5. Northwoodneil

    Northwoodneil Feeling the Heat

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    Bio, I checked the vac switch after the fact but I've always had a bad feeling about it. I can open my hopper or door for that matter and the auger keeps running. I don't have that much natural draft. But the switch checks out, it's open until I suck on the hose gently, I can hear the contacts and the switch closes. I ohmed the wires from the board to the pump and they are ok. I needed to jump the vac switch wires to do it on the common so it's a working curcuit. Swilly I am the proud owner of a new pump and igniter I found cheap on ebay a couple years ago but I'm pretty sure they aren't the problem. I'm still thinking curcuit board because the hot wire is dead.
  6. Bioburner

    Bioburner Minister of Fire

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    But does the switch close when trying to start the stove? Have to check the switch with meter while trying to start. We are dealing with less than half an inch of water vacuum at most and one can suck a lot more than that. I have seen a lot of posts with semi plugged vac lines not allowing stoves to run properly.
  7. Northwoodneil

    Northwoodneil Feeling the Heat

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    Good thought Bio. I've got it pulled out from the venting right now so tommorow I'll hook it back up, jump the vac switch and try it. I did blow through the vac hose and it was clear. With all this sucking and blowing I hope Smokeshow isn't listening.
  8. smoke show

    smoke show Guest

    [​IMG]
    jtakeman and heat seeker like this.
  9. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Assuming everything else is up to snuff(pressure switch ect). I seem to remember a relay on the board being the cause(no power is going to igniter/air pump). Been a while, But it would be where I'd look.
  10. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    Th e Pc-45 I rigged the fish pump to just used the igniter IN/OUT to power as through the vac switch as normal with P Series, not aware of a separate relay
    Delta-T likes this.
  11. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    The Vacuum switch only controls the neutral(AKA safety feature-Also the safety for the auger motor). Power comes from the control board by the yellow wire to the igniter/air pump. See print attached. Like I said, If there is no power to the igniter/pump(no power from the yellow wire) There is a component(though it was a relay-may be a triac) on the control board that is cooked. Its been a while since I worked on one, But :p
    Capture.JPG
  12. Northwoodneil

    Northwoodneil Feeling the Heat

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    Update- up and running. I think Bio had the answer. I hooked up, jumped the pressure switch and it ignited. After a good blowing out of the vac line and manually working the pres. switch it's acting like it should. It even stops feeding pellets when I open the door. I thought the switch was acting up last heating season and I was going to replace when I did my fall maint. I am going to change out the press. switch but during all this I hooked up my new air pump and it puts out a lot more air like twice as much. Since I have a new air pump should I switch it out too? How much air is enough? Is the pump rebuild kit still available from Harman? Thanks all.
  13. Bioburner

    Bioburner Minister of Fire

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    Glad to here alls well. I usually try fixing things by eliminating the simple first.
  14. Northwoodneil

    Northwoodneil Feeling the Heat

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    One more thing, to all that think these curcuit boards are fragile, I accidentally shorted out the board bad enough to see the lightning. After a new pair of underware, no power at the board and several moments of terror(my billfold cramped up) I checked the breaker. Reset and all was good in my little world. ( note to self don't leave the stove plugged in and board hanging out when pulling on wires)!!!
    jtakeman likes this.
  15. Bioburner

    Bioburner Minister of Fire

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    I think the most problematic thing on the boards is the pot switches that control feed and fans. I have to order a couple and get them installed before we get into next heating season-month.
  16. kinsmanstoves

    kinsmanstoves Minister of Fire

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    where is the toggle switch?

    Eric
  17. Bioburner

    Bioburner Minister of Fire

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    I got new pots ordered via Ebay . 3/$9 delivered. Only about 2 months to heating season!
  18. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    and you are correct, Sir
  19. Northwoodneil

    Northwoodneil Feeling the Heat

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    Update, I just received my new pressure switch and installed it along with the new air pump. As I said before all seemed right, but never let it run a complete cycle. Now when it lights the igniter and air pump keep running. They ran for 15 minutes before I disconected the wires and let the stove cool. Could this be a esp probe issue or am I back to a board problem? The distribution fan did kick in so I'm leaning towards the board. I have a new probe and will try it tomorrow. The stove is still hot and I need a beer.
  20. Bioburner

    Bioburner Minister of Fire

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    With the heat wave coming your way the stove will take a week to cool down. ESP could be the culprit. I hate trying to fix something after replacing several things at once. You got the stove activating the startup sequence, now it has to recognize that the stove has lit and has come to temp. Someone here should know the values of the ESP.
  21. Northwoodneil

    Northwoodneil Feeling the Heat

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    I just ran another startup and watched the light on the board marked igniter. As soon as the distrib. blower comes on the igniter light goes out. This is what always happened in the past but now the yellow wire (igniter air pump) stays hot. Ok a beer for real now and I'll check the wiring and esp tomorrow.
  22. Northwoodneil

    Northwoodneil Feeling the Heat

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    Oh by the way, if I open the door the igniter and air pump quit.
  23. Bioburner

    Bioburner Minister of Fire

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    Igniter off when distribution fan comes on is good. Igniter and pump off when if loss of vacuum,good.
  24. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    It would because the vacuum switch drops the neutral side of the igniter, airpump and auger when you open the door...............................
  25. Northwoodneil

    Northwoodneil Feeling the Heat

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    Right Jay, just sayin' it's not wired hot all the time because I can get it to stop.

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