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PE Pacific Insert Not Bullet-Proof

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Hogwildz, Aug 18, 2009.

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  1. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    Hi Everyone,

    I am back from the hunt, but our party didn't get anything. I did see the back of one deer (I couldn't identify since I only had a buck tag), spooked a bull moose and saw a cow and calf. Overall, it was a great time and great to be in the bush for the week.

    I just spoke with Lynn from the dealership. The firebox has been welded at the distributor and after they conducted a preliminary visual inspection. From the inspection, the distributor inspector wanted a bit more grinding done and then there should be a final inspection. Hopefully, by tomorrow, it will be approved to be sent back to the dealership by Wednesday. Lynn said that she will try to get it back to me for the weekend. She said she will call tomorrow with an update.

    I see that there have been a few more stoves with similar issues, since I last posted. I purchased my Pacific insert in 2005, but I am not sure of the date of manufacture. Is there any way to get the date via the serial number etc.?

    Hog, your repair is looking good! Your EBT was not correctly installed and that could be a factor in your firebox issues. How is the stove running now that you fixed the EBT? Any noticeable difference?

    Cory mentioned that he would extend my 5 year comprehensive warranty. I am going to call him later today, to see if they can put it in writing.

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  2. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    I only ran it a couple nights, and didn't push it hard or load it to the gills.
    Seems more controllable so far.
    I did notice when I replaced the glass last year, one part of the gasket did not cover the glass on the inside. Outside is covered, but an inch or so is not covered on the inside. So I must fix that. Its driving me nuts. I doubt it will make a difference. I am still getting a small leak at the door gasket on the lower latch side. I just don't like this 7/8 flat gasket. Going to try and adjust the door latch a lil more. If it wont seal, I am going back to a 1" round gasket.
  3. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    Hey Everyone,

    I just heard back from the dealership (Herb). The stove repairs have been made and the dealership will be picking it up tomorrow. Herb said that they can deliver it the same day, but stated that they can only bring it into the basement, but not install it (as what originally was the plan). I asked why, and Herb stated that he was told by the dealership owner that it was a cash sale and therefore will not cover the cost of reinstallation. I asked about why they were able to remove it, and he stated that they did it as a courtesy. That is when I stated to Herb that this is under warranty, so I understood that the removal and reinstallation was covered by PE and not them.

    I said that I talk to Cory from PE to get his perspective. He stated that it might be a liability issue and since I originally installed the stove, the dealership thinks that they will assume liability if they install it. Any professional reinstallation would require an inspection of the liner, cap etc. and would be a cost that I would incur. All I was looking for was the dealership to reinstall the stove and no liability assumed by them. He said that they can probably set the firebox in the fireplace, but everything else is up to me. I stated that there were a lot of things dismantled and unscrewed to get the stove out and it wasn't that easy.

    It isn't impossible for me to install the unit, however it is a small space and it took Herb and I about an 1.5 to disconnect the liner and remove the unit. Reinstallation will have the same PITA factor. So I asked Cory if the warranty doesn't cover reinstallations (including inspection)?

    That is when he changed his tone and said that he "lost me" at this point. He stated that they have honoured the warranty up to this point "no questions asked", implying that by doing so, they have done me a favour by asking no questions. I countered stating that the 5 year comprehensive states "replacement" if part is deemed defective, so by accepting a repaired firebox, I have done them the favour. He stated that the 5 year comprehensive is "repair or replacement" at PE's discretion.

    Realizing that I was getting a bit put off and that things were going no where fast, I brought the conversation back to the reinstall, stating that the reinstall involves a bit more than putting back a few screws; and that from what I understood, it was a monetary issue and misunderstanding of the warranty vs a liability issue. Cory stated that he will talk to the distributor to see whats up.

    After the phone call, I was a bit dismayed how things played out. So I sent the following email to Cory to try to communicate things better:
  4. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    "Hi Cory,

    During our telephone conversation, it seems I hit a nerve with you and that was not my intention. I am not trying to be unreasonable or to be a pain in your side. As a customer, I am writing this email to hopefully better explain what I was unable to do verbally.

    I was told by the dealership (Herb), during the removal on October 16, 2009, that the insert would be re-installed by them. Therefore, I had the expectation that the unit was to be reinstalled.

    In this morning's conversation with the dealership (Herb), he was told by the Owner that they will only deliver it to the basement, since it was a cash deal and that they initially removed it out of courtesy. From what he told me, I understood that the dealership will not reinstall it because they believe that they are responsible for the costs. It was my understanding that the 5 year comprehensive warranty from PE was covering this. There was no mention of liability concerns in the conversation.

    Also, during the removal of the insert, I spent 1.5 hours with Herb (since he was alone), assisting in the disconnecting of the unit, providing a number of tools, removing panels and screws, lifting it on to my hand truck lifting it up stairs, and lifting it into his truck. So I am not adverse to doing some of the work.

    However, it was not the easiest thing to remove, due to the tight spaces. Reinstallation will face similar hurdles. I don't expect the dealer to take liability for installation. But, as the customer, I do expect assistance and things to be reasonably convenient.

    For you to imply that you have done me a favour by honouring the warranty so far with "no questions asked" I thought was a bit unfair. I have been very patient and empathetic throughout this process. Nor am I trying to get away with anything. I would have no problem answering questions by PE, since I am a diligent woodburner. Also, the problems with my firebox do not seem isolated (referring to other responses on the Hearth.com forum) and could be a result of a potential design/material issue. If these are potential issues, PE should ask questions and investigate, as part of the improvement of their products.

    The only feedback I have received so far during this warranty claim, in regard to the condition of my insert, was from Herb, during the removal of the insert. He stated that he did not see evidence of over-firing. Have you received any feedback from the Distributor?

    In regard to interpretation of the 5 year warranty, I am not asking for a new stove. Therefore, I could be doing PE a bit of a favour. The PE website states:

    "5 Year Comprehensive

    Pacific Energy will replace any part found to be defective (parts and labor) for five years from the date of purchase. This coverage includes electrical components (blowers, speed controls and thermal switches)."




    I am aware that there also a "conditions" statement after that states, "Any part that shows in our judgment evidence of defect shall be repaired, replaced or refunded at Pacific Energy’s option. The defective part may be required to be returned to Pacific Energy or an accredited agent, transportation prepaid." You mentioned this part, in our telephone conversation. Does this include the 5 year warranty? If so, the two statements contradict each other and are very misleading. The warranty should be rewritten to make things clear.

    At the end of the day, I do appreciate all your help and assistance you have given me. You have been my advocate, fair to deal with, and have helped move this warranty process that might have stagnated otherwise. I just hope that you understand some of my frustration that I have had during this process.

    There are three parties I have been dealing with (the dealer, the distributor, and manufacturer). Each has their varying interests, and knowledge base in regard to warranty issues. The dealership contact (####) that I dealt with initially did not even know about the warranty on the baffle or about the 5 year comprehensive warranty.

    Being the fourth party in this process, I have to stand up for my interests as well. I don't want to ask for nor expect the moon. I just want things made right, so that I may continue raving good things about my PE stove.

    Please respond and let me know what the outcome is. Your response, thoughts, and a clarification of the 5 year comprehensive warranty would be greatly appreciated."

    So what does everyone think? Am I going to far in regard to asking for the stove to be re-installed? What is your interpretation of the 5 year comprehensive warranty as found at http://www.pacificenergy.net/warranty.php ??
  5. madison

    madison Minister of Fire

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    Sisu,

    I understand and empathize with your frustrations.

    My general opinion is that the fireplace/stove appliance "Industry" is not the most customer friendly, organized or very well run.

    Bottom line, it may behoove any future customers to thoroughly check out their dealer i.e. references, longevity, better business bureau etc. as 'he" going to be the one you really have to deal with for service. I do not think your experience would be any different no matter what brand, or warranty you may have purchased.

    And I would argue that the manufacturers warranty claims are ,,,, i am at a loss for the proper legal term, bogus, as the manufacturer has made warranty issues a dealer issue, and as you have found out, the some dealers seems to only be associating himself with the manufacturer for the sale of the unit only, and not representing the manufacturer for product support. It would be interesting to see the agreements that a dealer has to make to sell a manufacturer's product.

    Hope this makes sense, my opinion for what is is worth....
  6. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Sisu,
    As much as I understand your frustration, I can see the dealer's concern regarding liability.
    If something should go wrong whether due to the install or not, anyone involved including your homeowners Ins. will go directly after the dealer if they reinstall it.
    You can try and ask them if they will install if you agree to sign a waiver of some sort, relieving them of any liability.
    Just me, but if they were willing to get it in the opening, and it was a matter of me reconnecting the liner and surround etc. I myself would just do it, knowing it was done right, and not having to wait a day longer than I had to.
    I understand you position and frustration. The worst part is over, time to get burning again. But again, that is me & my opinion. You need to do what is best for you and what you feel is right.
    Keep us posted.
  7. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    Thanks for the support Madison! I would agree that the PE warranty is poorly written. But no matter how poorly written, it is still written and legally binding. If the warranty is not honoured that would be a "breach of warranty" and litigation would be the proper recourse. Like Brotherbart stated in post #29, I am pretty confident any judge looking at the warranty would side with the customer.

    Well I did receive two email responses from Cory at PE. The first was a reply to my email: "Your point is understood and I will try and accommodate as best I can." That was it. I am not sure how to interpret it. No answers in regard to my questions about the warranty interpretation etc. In the second email he sent a PDF screenshot of their database with the addition that the 5 year comprehensive warranty has been renewed another 5 years. Edit: Correction. It says it was extended to November 3, 2011. However, without an official interpretation on what the 5 year comprehensive warranty entails, I don't have full confidence in it.

    Hi Hog! Yeah I mentioned about signing a waiver in my telephone discussion with Cory, absolving the dealership of liability, but I did not get a committed answer. He did state that he could try to talk to them about getting it in the fireplace, but I would still be responsible with the connection etc. We did take a lot of screws out of the connectors from the insert to the line (one took almost 25 minutes to get out), to finally disconnect the unit.

    With the three parties, it is easy for each party to point a finger at the other and say "It wasn't me". I understand if the dealership does have have liability issues. However, they are acting as an agent of PE and should be under PE's full guidance and warranty coverage to do what needs to be done.

    Regardless, I was expecting PE to take control and make the process reasonably painless, seamless and timely. I might be splitting hairs on this one, but I am getting a bit tired of fighting for each step of the way and being told something different on different days. If I hadn't come here to seek guidance, and followed up every step of the way with the parties involved, my stove would still be sitting here cracked and the warranty claim would be gathering dust in warranty purgatory.

    It is a matter of principle now, and I was expecting a bit more from PE. I bought a PE because of its reputation and warranty. If I expected any less, I would have gone with another manufacturer. They have come through reasonably almost all the way, I just don't want them to fall short now.

    And yes, I want to get burning asap!
  8. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    I hate to be the bad buy but if it was a cash and carry self install in the first place I think it pretty much should be the same for the repaired stove. Of course I have always thought patching up the stove was a crock in the first place. When I got a defective stove ESW replaced it with a new one but I never expected them to install it since I installed the first one.
  9. branchburner

    branchburner Minister of Fire

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    I think a lot is being made of the warranty semantics here. In general, the warranty states: "Pacific Energy will replace any part found to be defective (parts and labor) for five years from the date of purchase.” Then after that it states more specifically: “Any part that shows in our judgment evidence of defect shall be repaired, replaced or refunded at Pacific Energy’s option.” Personally, I do not believe the two statements contradict each other. The second statement simply gives more detail, and clarifies and defines the term "replace" as used in the first statement (which does not specifically say "replace with a shiny brand new factory-original part"). To some, a "replaced part" may imply something other than a "repaired part". The warranty makes clear this is not implicit. The word "replace" has a broader definition than maybe some would like it to in this context.

    I do agree that the wording is needlessly confusing. Instead of "replace" it should read "replace or repair" to avoid misinterpretation. So lets take a vote: should the PE warranty be replaced, or be repaired?
  10. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    BrotherBart:

    I can see your point. This might be a trivial matter. However, the flip side is that I originally installed the stove without any expectation of removing and reinstalling it again. Reinstallation is going to be a lot more difficult than the original install, since alot more things were dismantled this time around. For example, I am hoping they put back the heat shield and fan to the firebox, which was removed during the repair.

    If the product is under the 5 year warranty, that includes labour and should technically cover the cost of installation. The dealer should be operating under PE's warranty and not pay for anything out of their own pocket. The dealer contacts I have spoken to so far have indicated that it is a monetary issue of who is picking up the tab and not a liability issue.

    Also, everything was working prior to the removal, I want to make sure that is the case when it is reinstalled. I don't want to have to call them back after the fact, if something is wrong (eg. fan not working).

    I feel that had the process been quicker etc., I would be a more forgiving. And yes, replacement would have been way faster.

    Branchburner:

    I don't agree with your interpretation of "replace". A warranty is a legal agreement between the manufacturer and consumer. As such, it needs to be explicit and not open to interpretation. If it is vague and/or misleading, it does not serve either the manufacturer nor the consumer well.

    In this case, there are two warranties; the 5 year comprehensive and the limited lifetime. Reading the warranty page, it is impossible to say that the "conditions" statement applies to both warranties. If "replace" in the 5 year comprehensive warranty means "replace or repair" it should be defined as such in the warranty or just written "replace or repair".

    As the consumer I read "replace" as "replace" in the statement about the 5 year comprehensive. Reading the warranty, I understand that the 5 year comprehensive warranty is better than the limited lifetime warranty. Logic dictates that the company has made a better warranty for this time frame because the number of issues should be low and the company would want to appease and reassure the customer if an issue does arise. Also, the warranty does make other clear distinctions (eg. labour is not covered under the limited lifetime warranty).

    PE promotes their warranty as the best in the business or "industry leader". Therefore, it needs to be re-written, if the language used is not what is being practiced. I vote that the warranty needs to be repaired. :)
  11. crazy_dan

    crazy_dan New Member

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    Hog if it was a liability issue, then they could just refund me my $$$ and I would go buy something else. This unit was repair by the manufacturer / dealer, so I would assume this to be as safe to use as the day it was brand new. If they were to balk at the idea of a reinstall because of liability then they would need to take the stove back until they made it right, or refund my $$$.
  12. 53flyer

    53flyer New Member

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    My apologies if anyone is offended by my opinions. I certainly don't pretend to say I can't be wrong on any of my points but, as with anyone who has an opinion, I believe myself to be correct until convinced otherwise. That's the great thing about a open debate, it allows for the uncovering of ideas/thoughts that may otherwise get missed if everyone agreed on "everything". :)

    1) I’m sorry but replace in no way = repair (no matter where it’s looked up). As far as semantics, just because “restore” is found in the definition of both repair and replace in no way means they are equivalent. Irt repair, restore is used as in “to fix” whereas irt replace, restore is used as in “to put back” (to "re" "place" the item). Those are two totally different meanings. You can’t “replace” something by trying to repairing it.

    2) Sisu- Regarding interpretation of the warranty: As in any contract, this “is” open to interpretation. That’s why we have such big business in the area of contractual law around the world. Unfortunately, for various reasons, contracts are purposely written to be vague “in certain areas” so as to limit responsibilities of the party that is typically presenting the contract. That allows a lot of judges to have employment making decisions on what their interpretation of “it” is… Similar arguments could be made for our "simple" cough, cough, tax codes & insurance paperwork but l digress.

    Aside from that (imo), you’re 100% correct. The warranty does contradict itself but unfortunately it’s most likely on purpose. The first part (1st for a reason) provides a great selling point and is the only part emphasized in the selling stage. The second part provides an out for the company. The second part does not simply “clarify” the first statement. In fact it “completely changes” (weakens) it. You go from an iron clad “we will replace something that is “defective” (period) to “maybe” we’ll replace it (with some grey area). The contradiction is in the finality of the 2 statements. To correct it they would have to either:
    A. Remove the words repair and refund from the conditions statement and make it clear that those conditions only apply to the limited lifetime part (after 5yrs) of the warranty.
    B. Rewrite the 5yr to say repaired, replaced or refunded.
    Doing A reduces any potential wiggle room thereby opening them up to higher warranty claims (although if you don’t have numerous “defects” that wouldn’t be an issue would it?). Doing B actually turns a huge selling point (one I’ve heard pushed at both local PE dealers who heavily emphasized "replace") into a negative. That’s why you won’t see them do either. A good compromise would be making it an iron clad replacement of defective parts for say, 2yrs, then a repair, replace, refund type warranty for the next 3. However, you most likely won’t see any change at all.

    At this point a person might be more concerned with the fact that nothing has been said on PE’s behalf irt the problem being discovered &/or a corrective fix being made. This causes the appearance of a business as usual attitude (weather accurate or not). In the absence of action, perception becomes reality and PE’s perceived lack of action (proactive action) irt the “much bigger issue” of what’s causing these failures could very reasonably be perceived as a nonchalant, reactive attitude to some people. 1-2 problems out of thousands may be flukes but this many similar ones, among such a small relative sample size, are seemingly impossible to write off as such. In all actuality this is highly suggestive of a defective manufacturing &/or assembly process more than a fluke and repairing the “visible” problem areas doesn’t constitute fixing the underlying problem does it? It’s suggestive of that due to the span of time these problems cover and the previously mentioned fact that for every 1 reported there are most likely 20+ unreported just due to the nature of the difficulty in locating the problem (for average owners) without being made aware to even look for it. To some (not all) people, the refund part of the warranty could actually begin to looking more appealing under these circumstances based on the simple premise that “if” nothing substantial has been done to correct this problem then what does that say irt their approach taken on other potential problems. A company should be ever vigilant to ensure doubt isn’t allowed to raise its head irt their product or practices.

    I’m truly thrilled for those who are happy with PE’s response to their issues and hope you don’t end up having recurring problems going forward. Personally, PE went from 1 of 4 to off my list because I’ve seen nothing from them to indicate they’ve made any changes to correct what reasonably appears to be an obvious problem. I’d also rather not buy something with the expectation that I’ll “need to” to enforce a warranty and go through the involved hassle. I do remain interested to see if they take the corrective actions that should be done irt the underlying problem. That would cause me to consider PE again.
  13. 53flyer

    53flyer New Member

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    Setting aside the replace/repair topic I do see both sides of the “they re-install or I do” dilemma but it really shouldn’t matter if its cash and carry or a full install. In the end it’s usually more a matter of the size and permanent nature of an item. A defective TV would generally need to be taken in for warranty work but a gas furnace or even a washing machine would typically be fixed by having a repairman come out to take care of it (with the manufacturer/dealer taking care of the details). If it can’t be fixed in place then it’s on the furnace/washing machine manufacturer to take it away and re-install a fixed or replacement unit iot make the customer whole again (basically put them back to where they’d be if the manufacturers item wasn’t “defective”). A big wood burning stove, or even more permanent insert, is a whole lot closer to the furnace or washing machine than the TV in this manner. If not for PE’s manufacturing defect the customer wouldn’t need to move & fix these stoves in the first place and PE should be taking responsibility for correcting the problems with their defective item and returning it to the customer in a pre-defective stove status.
  14. MovingOffGrid

    MovingOffGrid New Member

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    If it was my Summit and I was a cash and carry customer, I would be adequately happy they drop my refurbished stove in place. IMHO they shouldn't be asked to take the liability of a full install.

    Until the product issue is proven with time, to actually be faulty materials or workmanship, this seems to me like the best they can do without admitting product defect. Repair what *may* look to them like over firing, without annoying the customer and accusing of any wrong doing. However, if more and more Summits keep going bad, future stove owners may have an easier time of holding their feet to the fire.

    I sympathize with you guys.

    Fingers crossed these are isolated incidences and my Summit doesn't also end up in the welding shop in a few years. Fortunately for me, you early adopters are blazing the product quality trail and time will tell if there are/were real defect issues they will be forced to address en masse (every manufacturers nightmare I'm sure).

    New stoves all around :)
  15. madison

    madison Minister of Fire

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    53Flyer,

    Well stated, a great read.
  16. ssordo

    ssordo Member

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    I second that Madison. IMHO warranties should be written for the customer, giving them a level of comfort in knowing they are purchasing a product that is fully backed by the manufacturer. It seems these days that warranties are written only to be deciphered by overpaid lawyers who spend hours cutting through the BS thats compiled in just a few sentences. Either PE stands behind their product and their words or they don't. I cook for a living, if a customer is unhappy with something it is either replaced or comp'd, I stand behind what I sell. I know that sounds very simplistic but the fact is a happy customer is worth it's weight in gold! I just pulled the trigger on a Buck 91, was going to buy the PE Summit from a dealer which is closer to me and with whom I've dealt with in the past on my VC. If PE thinks this forum or the internet in general doesn't have an effect on their business or an impact on potential customers they are sadly mistaken. The buying public makes or breaks a company, I feel they should at least honor their words and maybe even go a little above and beyond to keep their customers happy. Hope everything turns out for the best for all involved.
  17. pilot-werx

    pilot-werx Member

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    Could not agree more. In my business my word is everything. Yes things are put in writing so the lawyer types are happy, but if I cannot back up my word, let alone what I put on paper, then I should not be in business. As I have said before, I am happy with Summit but given that this has gone on for 15 pages and I have not see one response from the company, my current Summit will be the last PE product I purchase.
  18. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Dan, the liability issue would not be with the stove itself, but the install, liner/pipe connection etc.
  19. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    I know of no cash & carry purchases, that a warranty covers the removal & re-installation off the product.
    If you purchase a part for your car, a Tv, etc, most of the time, you are responsible to bring it to the place of purchase, or a qualified repair facility.
    Now on some things, you can buy an extended warranty which would cover the transport. Unless a warranty details removal, transportation and reinstallation is included in the warranty, I don't see many manufacturers actually covering this..
    I can't say there is no such warranty for a product anywhere, but if there is, it is spelled out in the warranty, and sometimes its also spelled out these things are not included.

    Many warrantied could use better wording. Not saying these issues are right, just that they are.

    I am, reading the PE warranty now:
    Looks like some parts could be vague or interpreted either way.
    In the end, I am happy with my Insert, the way the company responded, and still feel its one of the better warranties out there.
    I am glad I opted for the in place repair. Made the uninstall,
  20. thechimneysweep

    thechimneysweep Minister of Fire

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    As a PE dealer for over 20 years, I have always found them to be more than responsive to the rare warranty claims we've presented to them. They've been quick to assess the situation and authorize repair or replacement of the affected part as needed. Regardless of the wording in their warranty, they have never quibbled, and have in fact satisfied every customer, even in cases where the problem was clearly operator abuse. They have also compensated us for our time spent resolving each claim.

    I believe this thread clearly illustrates this about PE: they stand by their warranty. The problems and complaints listed above seem to all derive from perceived slow response or mis-handling of the claim by the dealer and/or distributor, over whom PE has no direct control, other than to jerk their dealership if and when that extreme action is warranted.

    In defense of those dealers, it would be charitable to keep in mind that most hearth product dealers do a year's business in about four or five months, and this is the middle of that time period. It is CRAZY busy this time of year.

    At present, all of my employees are working six days a week, 10 hours a day, and we're booked up until after Christmas. If one of our customers came to us with a warranty complaint similar to Sisu's or Hog's today, we could offer him or her three choices:

    Wait until Monday, December 28th, our next available opening, and we'll come get your stove and fix it for you.

    Hire the welder of your choice to make repairs (the Hog solution), and send us the bill.

    Come down to the shop, take a copy of our job board, and start calling scheduled customers (who've already been waiting several weeks for their appointments) until you find one who's willing to be bumped forward another six weeks so we can take care of your warranty claim. We'd do this for you, but a) the phone rings constantly this time of year, so we don't have an open line, b) our showroom is crowded with people who need help, so we don't have the personnel, and c) experience tells us your efforts to bump a scheduled customer will be futile.

    I know this thread has provided a wonderful opportunity to do some PE bashing, but you might want to consider the possibility, borne out by the postings I see above, that Pacific Energy (and the beleaguered dealers involved) are honestly doing the best they can.
  21. iceman

    iceman Minister of Fire

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    2,376
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    Springfield Ma (western mass)



    Tom, Hog,

    i agree with you guys....
    i understand the other good points brought up by people.... but if i was a dealer, i would not want to spend money on going to get a stove and reinstall if i didnt already do it..... now lets say the dealer reinstalls it and heaven forbid but a fire starts next week.... no major damage the owner puts out the fire, the first person you are gonna blame is the dealer who installed it because when the owner did it it worked fine for 3 years so it cant be his install tht caused the fire..... Do you see where i am going? that is besides the amount of time and money i have to pay my installer when it was a cash and carry and now someone who wants a stove + install has to wait ......
    cmon guys i understand, if it were me i would want pe to take care of everything.. but how many other dealers/companies would simply say its due to overfire?
    i dont think anyone/company is perfect but i do think pe did try to resolve the issue with a good amount of fairness, alot of companies would leave you to deal with the dealer... i wish they would simply send you new stoves and be done ... but maybe they are reading and afraid they will have to send out alot more because everyone from here will want one.....
    my stove hasnt broken yet and if it does i will try to get the welder to come here like hog did.....
    but this wouldnt stop me from buying another one... there are many satisfied lexus owners out there and there are a few people that have nothing but bad things with there lexus.... but we all know lexus makes a good car and those are isolated problems outta 100s of thousands of cars....

    lets not give up on pe ........yet
  22. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    466
    Loc:
    Ontario
    I understand that all the party's involved have their interests and challenges. I have no interest in PE bashing nor dealer bashing, the main purpose of this thread is to document my warranty claim. Believe me, I am not giving up on PE either.

    But dealership and manufacturer perspectives aside, let us not forget these considerations of my current situation as the customer:

    1. The only party who mentioned liability about the reinstall is the manufacturer PE, in conjecture about the dealerships hesitation. Cory thought that that might be the reason why the dealer was hesitating. However, the dealership contacts stated it was due to a monetary issue (and not a liability issue) and that they (the dealership) will have to pick up the tab for the install. Also, the dealership mentioned the removal was done in good faith on their part. So who is really paying for labour etc. that should be under the warranty claim? Why isn't this being clarified between dealer and manufacturer?

    2. I do understand it is a busy season, but the dealership has never stated that they were too busy to remove or reinstall the stove. Their hesitation has only been a result of that they did not know what was covered by the warranty (eg. labour), their role in the warranty etc.
    This warranty claim process started on September 28 and we are now into November. At first the initial dealer contact didn't come through, and had said he had done things (eg. sent the warranty claim) when he had not. Most of the time was spent trying to get the parties (the dealership, the distributor, and manufacturer) to make decisions. Other times, the dealership (not really their fault) didn't know their role. Once the decisions were made and roles clarified, the work was done. IMO, the manufacturer is the one who should spearhead the claim and make sure that all parties are aware of their roles and responsibilities.

    3. There were no answers provided by Cory (the Manager, Technical and Customer Services for PE) in regard to my email. First, I asked if the distributor (who conducted the repairs) provided any feed back in regard to signs of over-firing etc. Secondly, I asked what is the proper interpretation of the 5 year comprehensive warranty in regard to "replace". All I got so far was “Your point is understood and I will try and accommodate as best I can.”

    4. I consider the repair of the stove to be a fair compromise. According to Tom's first post in this thread, had I been totally negligent, I would have received a brand new stove!? The 5 year comprehensive warranty uses the word "replace".
    As such, connecting the firebox to the liner under PE's warranty shouldn't be an issue.

    5. I was told that the reinstall would happen, by the dealership contact, during the removal of the insert. Therefore, I had an expectation this was going to occur.

    At the time of purchase, the PE warranty was one of the selling points. I had no intention of using the warranty, but now that I have to, I am starting to learn its pros and cons. My interest as the customer is I want the stove I had paid for; free of defects and operating as advertised for a reasonable lifespan. I am sure that is something we can all agree upon.

    Hog: Out of curiousity you stated in post #225 "Dan, if you purchased it within the past 5 years, THEY ARE TO COME UNINSTALL AND HAUL IT OUT TO GET WELDED & REINSTALL!!!!!! , which Sisu & I have already been told, DEALER IS TO COME GET IT AND PUT IT BACK UNDER WARRANTY!. Tell the dealer to get it together, or you can call Cory at PE also, he has been helpful." That is what we were told. Why have you changed your tone? How many new PE stoves do you own now, you feral swine!?! :)

    53 Flyer: Ditto Madison "Well stated".
  23. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Messages:
    6,623
    Loc:
    Next to nuke plant Berwick, PA.
    Sisu,
    I should have corrected myself earlier.
    The dealer said he was ok with mobile welder coming out, due to the fact it would cost him more in labor to come get the stove, take to welding shop, and bring back. He never really did state he would uninstall & reinstall.
    I am not sure whether he would or not. But I have a feeling I would have had to uninstall, let them come get, and bring back, and I would have to reinstall.
    I forget his exact words, but I don't remember him ever saying exactly that he would uninstall & reinstall. I just took for granted that they would if need be, as I assumed that is how it would go.
    Maybe he would remove & install, but the more I am reading and the dealings, I doubt it would have gone that way. Sorry for the mix up.
  24. Dirtgrain

    Dirtgrain New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Loc:
    Ypsilanti, MI
    I've followed the whole thread, and I am veering away from PE for my upcoming purchase of a fireplace insert. Am I overreacting? How big is this problem? Should I avoid the PE Summit? Right now, I'm zeroing in on Lopi or Avalon, but the Summit keeps calling to me.
  25. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    44,554
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Both will heat your house just fine. PE has a nice design, but other designs work well too. Travis makes good stoves.

    We're still happy and not loosing any sleep about our Alderlea. PE is on it and that's what is most important to us.
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