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PE Pacific Insert Not Bullet-Proof

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Hogwildz, Aug 18, 2009.

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  1. karl

    karl Minister of Fire

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    Sisu,

    I have a problem with their proposal. PE has a 5 year comprehensive warranty that covers parts and labor. Removing that stove and putting it back in is a lot of labor. I would tell them to come and get it and bring it back when its fixed.

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  2. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Yep.

    "5 Year Comprehensive

    Pacific Energy will replace any part found to be defective (parts and labor) for five years from the date of purchase. This coverage includes electrical components (blowers, speed controls and thermal switches)."

    And it says "replace". Not weld back together.
  3. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    Excellent points! I am calling PE to see what they think. I will let you know what I find out.
  4. karl

    karl Minister of Fire

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    I have to say, I love the stove. There have been a few "Newbie what brand of insert should I get?" questions posted on here since this thread started and I have wanted to reply GET A PE!!! but I haven't; not because of the cracks but out of fear of getting flamed by the Englander guys.
  5. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    I sent you a PM Sisu, but I don't think it went through.
    I advised Cory at PE of your problems with the dealer & distributor, and also advised at least 3 or 4 other members other than myself had similar problems in similar areas.
    He advised he already saw the photos. I asked how, and he advised here. I emailed him my photos just so he knew which ones. I have a feeling he already knows, cause he sounded like he knew which one mine is, and how would he know my name as compared to my forum nick? I am guessing Tom gave him a heads up on the thread and problems arising in our stoves. Doesn't sound like PE will post anything here. But they are watching this thread, and aware of the problems. It does seem like they are going to honor the warranty. That is all I am looking for. I don't the world for free, just warranty to one way or another make things right. And at this point, I feel that is going to be honored. We have had other stove manufacturers have problem cracks etc, posted here, and seen that they took care of them. If welds fix it, and hold this time around. I am fine with that. I do expect them to be ground out and re-welded properly. As for the face cracks, they will have to also grind them out and fill with weld, then grind smooth & repaint. I know a few things about this, and will make sure its done right. Any welder with work pride and worth his salt, already knows these things.
    So I am sure they are aware of the stoves here with problems. But sounds like dealers play a roll in warranty repairs.
    PE is stepping up as far as I can tell to this point.
    Cory was easy to deal with, and that makes it that much less frustrating, and I appreciate that. The dealer............... we shall see.

    PS. Oh, i did forget to talk to him about the baffle, but sent him photos of that also, and advised my concern.
  6. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    I did speak with PE and posed the question about the 5 year comprehensive warranty. I spoke with Naomi from PE and she took the time to listen. She couldn't answer whether or not the comprehensive would include the replacement of the firebox, so she said I need to speak to Cory. I am assuming that is the same Cory that Hog spoke to. She did say that Cory was the one that would have made the decision for the repair.

    However, he was in a meeting and since it was the end of the day there, I didn't get a call back yet. She said if he doesn't call today, that he will call back on Tuesday. So I will wait until Tuesday to see what he thinks.

    I agree Hog that I do think that PE will honour the warranty (whether replacement or repair). Technically, they already have, since the repair has been authorized. However, it does not seem that the cracks are isolated incidents and it could be that they are indeed defects, covered as per the 5 year comprehensive warranty. Especially, considering that a number of posters here are experiencing the same issue and the fact we are a small sampling of the actual number of PE owners out there.

    Now that questions have been raised about the 5 year comprehensive, I would like an official answer whether it would apply to us. To me, removing the unit and sending it to the dealership is an inconvenience. Impossible no, but still a pain. Also, I have concerns with the uncertainty of the existing welds in the firebox. I am sure that a good welder can adequately repair the faulty welds. However, what about the other original welds? Will they crack too? I know there is uncertainty to everything. I just don't want to have to revisit this process ever again. I don't want to ask for the moon either, I just want to make things right.

    Karl has a good point too. The original firebox might be better conditioned than a new one.

    It sounds like you had a better experience and quicker time dealing with the warranty claim. The dealer went straight to PE and then you then dealt with PE directly. You didn't have to rely and wait on your dealer to disseminate information to you. Therefore, you promptly had an answer.

    I still have a bit of a bad taste in my mouth about the my outcome, so far. I think that dealing with three different parties makes things convoluted and inefficient. At the start of this process, my dealer contact kept assuring me that he checks his email constantly and would contact me as soon as he received any information. So I feel a bit taken by him also. Getting me to return the firebox and rewelding it might be the easy way out for the dealer and distributor.

    Now that PE is aware of this thread, hopefully they will have better insight and emapthy to issues we have experienced. If there is anything constructive that they can learn about improving the design of the product and the warranty process, hopefully they will fix it. They should also realize that we want to continue to be loyal PE customers!
  7. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Too easy to look like I am fanning a fire by even commenting on this situation but I have to say that PE's warranty always did impress me because it is the only one that I have ever seen for a wood stove that didn't have the "you are responsible for returning it for repair or replacement" crap in it.

    They just flat say they will replace what breaks. Except for over firing. And if you do a lot of digging here you will find that post where a Summit owner called them and they said 900 wasn't over firing and wouldn't hurt the stove. Which I thought was nuts at the time and still do.
  8. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    I feel if the cracks are prepared and re-welded properly, hopefully that will end the problems. If the cracks happen again or in another weld, then the lifetime warranty should cover it.
    Yes it is an inconvenience, but may be one we may have to deal with. I still want to see, and suggest maybe the same for you, if a welder can bring portable equipment on his truck and weld it where it sits in place. With proper floor protection etc. If its even possible. I know my neighbor used to drive a truck with a generator & welder on the bed. Long leads let him get to a lot of places without having to move stuff. As I said, he is a Union Ironworker, welding for 25 to 30 years, and I will ask, but I am sure he has to be certified to keep his job. I will have him look, ask his advice on the welds that failed, look at the other welds, and see how much to make them right. If he can do it while in place, I will push the dealer to ok that. I don't want to make a buck at all, they can pay him direct. I just want it fixed right. In the end, I too must deal with the dealer, but Cory assured me he would get the dealer on the ball. Cory made my frustration & worry a bit less after talking with him. That is a plus when dealing with any manufacturer. When I get this resolved, and the Summit fired up again, I will post a pic, and praise for PE. Till then I still love the stove, and try and keep an optimistic view, unless proven otherwise. I can see maybe putting the initial warranty call/claim in to the dealer, but really think the manufacturer should handle the rest of the support of their product. There are just too many dealers that want to make the cash from the sale, and hope to never hear from the customer again, unless it involves making more money.
  9. minesmoria

    minesmoria New Member

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    My stove has a crack on the top outside just like your stove!
  10. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    When did you purchase?
    Seems most of us bought within about a year span. Trying to see if its maybe a time frame of production that is experiencing these problems.
    Call your dealer and out a warranty claim in. Post some photos plz.
  11. minesmoria

    minesmoria New Member

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    The stove is around three years old, those weld joints are so small. The welded joints should be double or tripple welded thann this would not happen.

    what did pe they say about your claim.
  12. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    They told me I would here from the dealer. It sounds like they will repair it. Which would call for a welder to grind the old welds and reweld. The face will need welded, ground smooth and painted.
  13. greythorn3

    greythorn3 Minister of Fire

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    keep at them feral swine, youll get it taken care of forsure!
  14. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    PE rep basically told me I have a legitimate claim.
    Now it is up to the dealer to get ahold f me and let me know whats next. If I don't here from him this week, I'll be Calling Cory at PE again.
  15. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    Can you post some pictures of the cracks for all of us to see? Currently, I was told by my dealership that they will get the firebox rewelded. However, I have to remove the stove and get the stove to them myself, which is more of a problem now that my truck died this weekend. Also the question has arisen that if these are "defects" then shouldn't the 5 year comprehensive warranty apply? Therefore, parts, labour and replacement should be covered, including the removal and transport.

    I am currently waiting to talk to PE in this regard, as my stove was purchased in 2005. If the firebox cracks are repaired by the dealership, I don't think the welder is going to beef up all the other welds. These welds could potentially be sub par too. I am starting to lean towards "replacement" as a better option.
  16. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    I would tell the dealer to get a mobile welding outfit to come there and fix it. Thats what I am going to push for. You know if you get a new insert, everyone is going to want one ;)
    And your still going to have to pull that one out and pick up the new one.
  17. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Been there and done that with another brand. Painful. Which I seem to remember you getting a few chuckles from. :coolsmirk:
  18. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Spoke with my neighbor today> Confirmed as a member and working in the Ironworker's Union, he has been welding for 25+years. He confirmed my thoughts, that the weld is much stronger than the plate steel, and the steel should warp & or fail before the welds. The cracks down the center of the welds is the tell all. He just finished a continuing education test to keep his certification. He is coming over tomorrow to look at the welds.
    If I set up a 220 outlet for his welder, he has a 220 rated extension cord for his welder that he can repair the welds right where she sits. IF/WHEN the dealer calls, I will tell him it must be fixed in place where it sits.
    I don't want a cent from this, I merely want my insert fixed correctly, and be able to burn soon. I bet my neighbor will do it cheaper than a local outfit coming in with a mobile set up. They can pay him directly. I just want my insert ready to burn. It was hard enough getting it into my sunken living room, I ain't pulling it back out.
  19. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Sounds like the best way. Hog. I pulled the 650 pounder out, put the 455 pounder in and pulled it out and put the other 455 in. Took my old knees over a year to somewhat recover. Not even considering in and out of the truck.

    Removing the bricks and doors doesn't seem to make it hurt any less. Get that neighbor cranking bro. Better than the new kid it at Smokin Joe's House of Welding and Hot Tub Repair for sure. If the old stove had not been cracked in the back under the shroud that is what I would have done and it would still be burning.
  20. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    My back hurts just thinking of moving that insert out.
    I drug it off my pick up, across the porch, down into the living room down thank god only 2 steps, and slide it in the old firebox myself. My back was toast for a couple weeks after that.
    There is just no way I can get it back up those steps and into the truck myself. Well, If i was motivated enough, I might be able to, but I don't want to be motivated enough. I don't even want to disconnect the liner.
    I have one of those cheap induct fans I bought before I bought a couple real deal ones, I can prolly take an extension cord, take the chimney cap off, mount the fan on top of stack and let it ventilate most of the welding smoke out through the stack. My neighbor says no problem doing it where it sits. I had him weld my plow, and he is perfectionist. Even looked at me funny when I told him I was not concerned about painting the fresh grinds & welds on the old 20+ year old plow LOL. He will do a top notch job, that I am very sure off. Worst comes to worst, I'll just have him do it and f the dealer.
  21. Wacky1

    Wacky1 New Member

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    Is this all from overfiring and if so what temp are they saying is too hot???
  22. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    The manufacturer rep I spoke with didn't even mention over firing.
    It seems there are 4 or 5 members here, all purchased their PE's within the same time period. Having the same issues. Too many for coincidence to me. I still have faith in PE. But the dealer has not earned that yet.
    I'm thinking bad welding supplies, or maybe a welder that was not paying attention. Not putting blame, but this many stoves, not to mention others out there that don't know about it or mention it, prolly more.
    I am confident I have not overfired my insert. Anyone here knows it is my pride & joy, I love it and take very good care of it. As I am sure most others also do.
    He never even mentioned an over fire temp. He did mention they had a couple folks that used their stoves "hard".
  23. Frostbit

    Frostbit Feeling the Heat

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    I think you're on the right track getting a welder that knows his stuff to do the job. Its a perfect match, seeing how he is conveniently located next door. Considering the difficulty pulling the stove, heck, I would gladly pay him what he wants and if PE is what we still currently think they are, they'll just cut you a check for the guys time, which you can give to him along with a case of his favorite beverage.

    Who knows, if you're like most neighbors, there is always something you have talents at that he can use someday.

    Like someone else posting, for piece of mind, if he does it, its right. You take the stove to the dealer and they send it down the street to Joes Garage and the Hector the tire changer does it, you don't know what you have after the slag is ground off and black paint covers it all up.

    Good luck and be sure to let us know how it turns out.
  24. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    Yeah, I still want to see what PE says, since they are the ones who make the final decisions and pick up the tab. Like others have posted, I am a bit weary of sending it remotely to the welder, since my confidence isn't that high right now with the dealer. I don't know who the welder is they use and if they will properly reweld the defects. Also, like what has been posted, once the paint is applied, any defects not repaired might not be seen. The dealer contact also stated that the firebox won't be removed from the metal shell, so any welds that are currently inaccessible will not be inspected.

    A remote welder sounds like another option. But unless they contain the area to vent outside, I would be worried about the welding fumes and paint vapours in the house. I have two little ones in our house that I definitely don't want exposed.

    Hopefully, PE will contact me today and these issues will be resolved. I will post as soon as I know!
  25. meathead

    meathead Feeling the Heat

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    The "dealer contact" sold you a faulty stove...less than 5 yrs ago...doesn't the warranty on these things claim that for 5 yrs everything is covered, and only after 5 yrs you have to bring it in to get any warranty work done?

    Either way, the "dealer contact" sold you a faulty stove. You want it fully inspected, and you want to know the repairs are good. Tell him that's what is going to be done, or he can bring you a new stove and solve the problem that way. Sounds like you can't really trust your dealer to do anything right, so you're going to need to be there or at least get pics to know that they bothered to inspect anything. I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear a place like this just slopped a little more steel over the cracks and ground it down and painted it. Hopefully PE will step in and resolve it all for you. You paid for a good stove and got a bad one - you shouldn't have to spend hours of your time bringing it back to the place that sold it to you to get it fixed. All businesses make mistakes - good ones make them right without asking the customer to do some of the work.

    And don't worry about the fumes from the welder or paint. Have it done when the kids aren't home and crack the windows for a couple hours.
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