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PE summit and pacific owners have been holding out on us.

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by RedRanger, Feb 12, 2008.

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  1. RedRanger

    RedRanger New Member

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    :mad: How come you guys haven`t told us about the unique blower system on those units? You know-mounted on one side and blows out the other side. So there is no blower on the bottom to impede air flow. And so when you aren`t using the blower the natural air-convection comes in thru the bottom and out the top,less worries about over-firing with that awesome design.

    I`m ashamed of you guys,bragging about those mighty beasts and all the while holding back info on something as cool as that. Is this a group conspiracy or what? :lol: Well too bad for you, I`m putting the info out there. Tom Oyen helps out a lot on this site, so I hope the mods won`t mind me doing this.

    chimneysweeponline- and then click on wood inserts viewing comparision. then click on the pacific or the summit, then click on the highlighted blower design. Really informative article about it. You won`t even get that kind of info on the pe home site,I know cause I`ve looked.

    Well,there it`s done! dont know why you guys have been holding out on us all this time? :-S Maybe I shouldn`t done this,it`s only gonna give ya something more to brag about. ;-)

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  2. Gunner

    Gunner New Member

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    We don't need no stinkin blowers..... :coolgrin:

    I have the freestanding Summit classic, it's not an insert but similar to the "box within a box" like most inserts. Air is drawn up the space between the stovebody and the enamel and out the louvers at the top...ALOT of air. The natural convection created by the stove moves plenty of air. In a 25' wide room the flame from a lighter is nearly extingished at the ceiling as it bends away from the stove....the reverse at the floor.
  3. milner351

    milner351 Member

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    Well
    I put in a pacific energy sumit insert this past fall.

    Honestly - one of the things I am a bit disappointed with is the amount of air the insert moves.

    That's why I went searching for a forum like this tonight - it's been under 20F here for many days, with lots of time in the single digits.


    One reason we upgraded to this insert was to appease a smoke sensitive neighbor with a pulmonary condition --- and it does smoke much less than our old stove.

    However - it doesn't have the real HOT "drive you out of the room" heat that our old stove did when it was really kicking.

    I was wondering about adding another blower to the left side of the insert to try to move more air around the firebox.

    Right now I have a fan off to the side of the insert blowing across the door trying to pick up more of that heat that radiates off the door.

    I must say - the glass stays remarkably clean!

    Here's the insert in the den I remodeled this August - yea, I STILL Haven't installed the crown molding!

    Attached Files:

  4. RedRanger

    RedRanger New Member

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    Milner: wonder how dry your wood is this year? Also , hope other summit owners will chime in here but don`t think it would be wise to add another blower. kinda defeats the design of the insert.

    I am always looking for a bargain., but having looked and listened . My conclusion has to be that you can`t possibly be running your summit properly :blank: no offsense,but if you go back thru the threads on this forum, I can`t think of anything but braggarts about this machine. I know that from all the knowledge I have gained on this forum my next insert will be a pacific or a summit,.

    Come on guys, ya all know I am running an older pe insert, so give this guy some advice on your mighty beasts!!
  5. milner351

    milner351 Member

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    Thanks Sonny
    (what did I do wrong with the picture upload? I can't see it.)

    Actually - I would be relieved if I was doing something wrong that could be easily remedied.

    (most of the wood we've been burning lately is ash thanks to the ash borer killing most of the trees here in michigan - there is some maple and mulberry mixed in)

    Here's more detail on the installation:

    1. what you can't see behind the drywall and tile is a full masonry chimney with old ugly brick face.

    2. the summit insert is slid in as far as it can go - the space between the insert and the masonry is stuffed with fiberglass batte insulation on the top and sides.

    3. we are using the outside "ash clean out" air inlet through the bottom of the stove - which leads to an outdoor clean out a couple feet from the stove.

    4. 6" adaptor to 8" stainless flexible liner the full length of the chimney (two stories high) Our previous stove had an 8" outlet - so the liner is 8" and the 8" fit better in the masonry as well.

    5. I did stuff insulation in a few places near the bottom of the firebox as I could feel cold outside air coming in the room - some is behind the damper control on the bottom, some is on the left side at the bottom of the stove --- could this be messing up the designed air flow bath?
    -- again - as it is now, the only hot air coming out of the stove is from the top - nothing comes out the opposite side of the blower.
  6. RedRanger

    RedRanger New Member

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    Good god milner:

    Why not remove that insulation that is defeating the purpose. And ,hell, I hate to have to ask this question, but have you tried turning on the blower for the insert? That summit should be blasting you out of the room. something is not quite right here.

    Unless, you are like me , and burning only marginal wood. that is , mositure content, 25 plus.

    Be patient, the summit guys will soon chime in, and ask the right questions. eg.how long has your wood been seasoned? how high are your ceilings? etc,etc.

    I know you will get all kind of responses, they really like to brag :lol:
  7. crazy_dan

    crazy_dan New Member

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    I am new to my Summit as well. I thought the same you did at first, but since I have roasted myself out of the house in temps my old stove would have a hard time keeping it at 65-70 ish I had to change my mind.

    As far as a blower I do not have one, I have a free standing stove with a box fan.
  8. Jimbob

    Jimbob New Member

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    We have the Summit without the blower, and it works just fine. :coolsmile:
  9. Cearbhaill

    Cearbhaill Feeling the Heat

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    My "Pacific" insert runs me out of the room nearly every day. If I turn the blower up beyond the lowest setting even the slightest bit I seriously have to go upstairs to a back bedroom to cool down. That room doesn't look all that big- there's something not right here.
  10. crazy_dan

    crazy_dan New Member

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    Sonnyinbc, we do have to have some secrets don't we, also you need to send your PE decoder ring, and secret PE club membership button back. LOL :lol:
  11. milner351

    milner351 Member

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    :eek:hh:

    Well, I put the insulation in there to prevent the outside combustion air from leaking into the house.... it served that purpose quite well.

    Our wood is well seasoned, most of it ash - it's been sitting behind my shop about a year and was dead when it was cut down.... I don't think the wood is the issue, although I'd certainly put mulberry (or whatever this coarse bark yellowish wood is mixed with the ash) not very high on the burn index - hard to start, doesn't smell good and seems to slow down whatever burn you put it on.....


    I will remove the insulation from the side and bottom of the stove and report back my findings - I hope it makes a world of difference.

    The room the stove is in is roughly 15 wide by 30 long with standard 8ft ceilings, the ceiling fan is blowing "down" to help circulate the warm air throughout the house.

    At this point with outdoor temps under 20F, we are having a hard time getting the dining room (where the thermostat is) which is about 40ft from the stove above 65F, I have a small thermometer / humidity meter on the mantle over the stove, and it reads between 70-75F.

    WE RUN THE BLOWER ON HIGH ALL THE TIME :long:
  12. moondoggy

    moondoggy New Member

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    Milner, if im not mistaken, your problem is in your last sentence....

    "again - as it is now, the only hot air coming out of the stove is from the top - nothing comes out the opposite side of the blower. "


    you say you run the blower on high all the time but ... then no air comes out the other side?

    there has to be a blockage, or maybe the motor is running but the cage/fan isnt?
  13. milner351

    milner351 Member

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    moondoggy --

    It sounds like the insulation I put in to prevent drafts from the outside air inlet has disrupted the designed airflow paths around the firebox.

    Tonight when I get home from work I will remove some of the fascia panels and remove that insulation - hopefully it makes a world of difference.

    Thanks for all your input!
  14. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    In general I like blowers that follow the natural convection of the unit (bottom), but I suppose there is an exception to every rule. Side blowers would also seem to be more subject to excess heat radiation and therefore shorter life.
  15. Cearbhaill

    Cearbhaill Feeling the Heat

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    My "Pacific" insert air intake is on the right side and blows out the top.
    The "air" panel on the left side is to balance the appearance only- nothing blows out that side.
  16. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    If you look at exloded parts list in the PE Summit insert manual there are actually two air deflectors behind the firebox to direct the blower air up and over the top and prevent it from getting to the other side of the shroud.

    All that side mounting that blower did was let them build a Summit firebox insert that would fit in shorter fireplaces.

    Edit: All the right front grill does is give the beast access to room air if the knock-out in the side of the right side casing is, well, knocked out.
  17. moondoggy

    moondoggy New Member

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    oh i thought in the first post there was a fan on the opposite vent blowing through.
    meddling where i know little again.
  18. karl

    karl Minister of Fire

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    Considering it's 24 degrees out and my Summit is the sole heat right now, and it's doing a good job at it, I can't complain. I haven't ran the furnace all winter and I've only used my ventless gas space heater a total of a few hours this season.

    That said, I can tell you that without the blower this insert doesn't put out much heat at all.

    I wouldn't take the insualtion out from around the insert. I plan on putting some around mine this summer. I also plan on putting a blower on the left side too and reworking the air deflectors on top of the insert so air flows across the whole thing and not just part of it as it does now.

    This brings me to my thread stealing question :)

    People say if its an interior chimney then no insulation is need because the heat lost to the brick will be asborded into the house anyway. I disagree. My chimney is built from hollow concrete block and I think most of the heat absorbed by the block will flow up to the attic and above through the hollow interior of the block.

    I have a wood pass through next to the fireplace. Therefore, I can see and feel the exterior of this block right next to the stove. When the stove is burning hot the outside of the block is still cool. I know I'm putting heat into the block and I know the r value of it's low. So the heat must be rising up inside of the block.

    What is everbody elses opinion of this?
  19. milner351

    milner351 Member

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    To clarify -- the insulation I'm looking to remove is between the two steel "boxes" of the stove, not between the stove and the masonry.

    I'm with you - though there is a good deal of "thermal mass" in a typical masonry chimney - I don't think it's nearly as effective to heat up that masonry and wait for it to radiate heat into the room as it is to insulate the steel stove against loosing heat to the masonry - so more of it can be transfered to the air circulating around the firebox...
  20. Cearbhaill

    Cearbhaill Feeling the Heat

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    What would be the advantage (or point) of doing that?
    Would it just blow out that side as well?
  21. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    The knock out is to let room air into the primary input when you aren't using an outside air kit.
  22. thechimneysweep

    thechimneysweep Minister of Fire

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    BB, if you have another look at the exploded diagram in the Summit owner's manual on PE's site, you'll see that there are two staggered air deflectors in the plenum, with space between them and above the upper one to allow air to flow through to the louvered opening on the opposite side. If PE had intended that all the air be directed out the top, they could have easily accomplished that with a single deflector extending the entire height of the backplate. Here, I'll enclose a drawing of the plenum's backplate.

    PS: The page on my website that sonnyinbc referenced to begin this thread was a work in progress, and showed old insert photos with the blower on the left. A couple of E-mails from forum member visitors to that page prompted me to update the photos and fix some imprecise wording in the text.

    Attached Files:

  23. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    I was starting to get confused about which side the blower is on. The manual shows it on the left but everybody seems to talk about it being on the right. They must have changed it?

    I will give the Summit one thing for sure. I sure gets the conversations going. :lol:
  24. thechimneysweep

    thechimneysweep Minister of Fire

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    Yup, a few months ago, PE switched the blowers on the D1 and Summit inserts from the left side to the right side. I don't know why. Didn't even know it happened until a customer remarked that our older display model had the blower on the opposite side as their new model.
  25. iceman

    iceman Minister of Fire

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    make sure the button on the fan is on the up position i dont think the air should be blowing down that makes the air colder
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