Which do you think we should get? We live in a 2000 sq ft home with 20 ft ceiling in great room. We live at 3800 ft in the NC mountains. It gets windy and cold here. The fireplace is oversized and has large opening of 40" wide 38" high. I'm thinking the easiest thing to do is just get a Summit freestanding and stick it inside the fireplace. But we have a friend who is a mason who says he can stone it all around and make the insert have a nice finished look. Efficiency is important to me but from the reviews it seems the insert will be more than enough. Any advice?
PE Summit - Insert or Freestanding
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I had an insert for twenty-years that I thought was a heating beast. I replaced it last year with a free standing stove inside the fireplace with a blower and I will never own another insert again. The increase in heat released out into the room and the added heat stored in the masonry and slowly released after the fire dies down in the stove is fantastic.
I have the Summit stove, and it works VERY well for me, I'd recommend it.
If you go with the Summit free-standing, with pedastal and ash dump, you'd have a convenient way to dispose of the ashes.
Looks like the free-standing will fit in there nicely. The insert would look better, though.
Just giving you a couple of things to think about.
If you go with the Summit free-standing, with pedastal and ash dump, you'd have a convenient way to dispose of the ashes.
Looks like the free-standing will fit in there nicely. The insert would look better, though.
Just giving you a couple of things to think about.
Jimbob said:
Just clarifying - your Summit is freestanding?
I agree the insert would look better. I've heard the PE Summit Insert puts out a lot of heat. I'm just curious if anyone has ever compared this one to a freestanding. I know other inserts aren't as good.
I just copied this from another thread. This makes me think we should go with the insert. What do yall think? Thanks!
I would go with the freestanding. IMO a freestanding stove in a fireplace looks awesome. Plus you get the ash dump that is not available in the insert.
dharmama said:
I respectfully disagree with my buddy elk. That is what is known technically as a crock. Is a free standing stove sitting out in a room a better heater than either a free stander in a fireplace or an insert? Yes. Is an insert with a sealed surround trapping heat radiated off of the shroud in a fireplace better than the free stander in an open fireplace with a block-off plate above it easily releasing heat out into the room? No. On an equivalent basis with blowers running on both that stove is going to kick that inserts butt heat production wise.
The fact of life is though that either the Summit Classic or the Summit insert is going to toss a lot of heat. Go with the one with the looks ya like.
One of the things you didn't mention is where your fireplace and chimney is in the house - Is it:
1. In the middle of the house w/ living space all around it?
2. On an outside wall, but even with it, so that only the back side of the chimney is exposed to the outdoors?
3. "Tacked on" to the outside of the house, so that the back and sides are outdoors, and only the front face is exposed to the house interior envelope?
This will effect your heat flow and efficiency. Assuming they have equal size fireboxes, the stove or insert will put out the same total amount of heat, the question is where does it go. For the most part it can be either delivered directly to the room by radiation or convection, or it will be absorbed by the masonry of the fireplace. Obviously heat entering the room is no problem, the question is what happens to the heat absorbed by the masonry - will it be released back into the house, in which case it's like putting money in the bank to spend later, or will it end up warming the great outdoors, which is more like spending it on beer and floozies - fun at the time, but no long term return on investment.
In case 1, it doesn't make a great deal of difference what sort of stove you use because almost all the heat that goes into the masonry will eventually re-radiate into the living space. It might even be a better deal to heat the masonry since that will cause radiant heating into areas that aren't directly exposed to the stoves direct heat.
Case 2 is more of a compromise, some of your heat will go out the sides and be useful, but you may loose a fair bit out the back of the firebox. Probably a good idea to try and minimze the amount of heat absorbed by the masonry, but no need to be fanatic about it. An insert would work, or a free standing stove in the fireplace. It might be worth trying to insulate the back side of the fireplace box, or put a heat reflective fireback behind the stove (if code and the installation permits)
Case 3 is the classic "evil chimney" - pretty much anything absorbed by the masonry is going outdoors, so you want to do whatever you can to maximize heat sent out into the room, and minimize that absorbed by the masonry... I'd probably reccomend an insert and possibly as much non-combustible insulation lining the fireplace as possible, along with a block-off plate w/ insulation on top of it, etc.
Gooserider
1. In the middle of the house w/ living space all around it?
2. On an outside wall, but even with it, so that only the back side of the chimney is exposed to the outdoors?
3. "Tacked on" to the outside of the house, so that the back and sides are outdoors, and only the front face is exposed to the house interior envelope?
This will effect your heat flow and efficiency. Assuming they have equal size fireboxes, the stove or insert will put out the same total amount of heat, the question is where does it go. For the most part it can be either delivered directly to the room by radiation or convection, or it will be absorbed by the masonry of the fireplace. Obviously heat entering the room is no problem, the question is what happens to the heat absorbed by the masonry - will it be released back into the house, in which case it's like putting money in the bank to spend later, or will it end up warming the great outdoors, which is more like spending it on beer and floozies - fun at the time, but no long term return on investment.
In case 1, it doesn't make a great deal of difference what sort of stove you use because almost all the heat that goes into the masonry will eventually re-radiate into the living space. It might even be a better deal to heat the masonry since that will cause radiant heating into areas that aren't directly exposed to the stoves direct heat.
Case 2 is more of a compromise, some of your heat will go out the sides and be useful, but you may loose a fair bit out the back of the firebox. Probably a good idea to try and minimze the amount of heat absorbed by the masonry, but no need to be fanatic about it. An insert would work, or a free standing stove in the fireplace. It might be worth trying to insulate the back side of the fireplace box, or put a heat reflective fireback behind the stove (if code and the installation permits)
Case 3 is the classic "evil chimney" - pretty much anything absorbed by the masonry is going outdoors, so you want to do whatever you can to maximize heat sent out into the room, and minimize that absorbed by the masonry... I'd probably reccomend an insert and possibly as much non-combustible insulation lining the fireplace as possible, along with a block-off plate w/ insulation on top of it, etc.
Gooserider
Given the generous size of the fireplace, I would go with a freestanding stove. Consider which will heat the best during a power outage - a freestanding stove or an insert that relies on the fan to get the heat out? We had an insert in our fireplace when we first moved into the house. It took twice the amount of wood to raise the house temps. And that was with an improvised fan. During a power outage the thing was almost useless.
Also remember that the summit already has the sheet metal shroud built onto it. It is a convection stove meant to heat the air and not depending on radiation. It is pretty much a freestanding insert.
I vote for the freestanding so long as it fits.
I vote for the freestanding so long as it fits.
Gooserider said:
Thanks! I would say its case #2. Which means either would be fine. We're tempted to just get the freestanding with blower. If we get the insert, we'll have to get the sides custom made to fit the strange shape of our fireplace. Thanks for all your thoughtful replies...this helps!
Also - does anyone know if the viewing window larger on the insert than on the freestanding stove? thanks. w
As I understand the way PE does stuff, they have a small set of fireboxes that they "package' in different style shells - thus all of the "Summit" models will use the same firebox, regardless of the external style of the stove, free standing or insert, I believe this also means that they use the same doors on all the different models in the same firebox line.
IOW, for the same firebox, you get the same size window regardless of stove....
Gooserider
IOW, for the same firebox, you get the same size window regardless of stove....
Gooserider
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