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PE Summit Insert Series-B and experiences in operation?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by juneau10, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. juneau10

    juneau10 New Member

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    Hey, guys. Long-time lurker, first-time poster. My wife and I recently bought a vaulted-ceiling log home last spring in SW VA. It's 1800 sq ft, but 1200 floor plan and 2nd story loft, so more like equivalent to 2200 to heat with a few rooms closed off. At the end of last season, be bought a new insert to replace the useless one that came with the house. (It was a mid-80's "slammer" without flue connection that would blow smoke into the house whenever the fan was on, and not put out any heat when it wasn't). We chose the Summit Insert after lots of research on size, efficiency, clearance requirements, and burn-time. Installed it myself, about 18' of insulated smoothwall SS liner, and Roxul in the (external) masonry fireplace hole. Hope to use it almost exclusively for heat, as a heat pump is the only other option in the house.

    Has anyone figured out if the EBT is gone from the Series-B? My thought is for the longest possible burn times (at low output), keeping the fan off should allow for the EBT to open less to keep the firebox hot enough, and I wouldn't lose much to the masonry since it's insulated. It seems to burn through the wood faster when the fan's running, but I don't want to waste heat going in to the masonry or having hotter flue gasses than necessary.

    Also, how reasonable is it to be running this thing long-term at mid settings? I grew up with wood heat and the overnight or leaving-the-house-empty M.O. was always to keep the damper closed to make sure it doesn't burn too hot unattended. I've only got one year prior to this house of being the "decision maker" WRT gathering wood, estimating how much to need for the winter, etc. The past few days have been the first real test of the stove we bought. It definitely will crank out the heat, but it seems that in the 30's on windy nights, I'll have to run it pretty much at mid settings with mid-fan to keep up and have the house in the mid 60's. Any experiences or suggestions for how long a full load will last in these kind of conditions? I'm thinking I'll be glad I got what was 2 years' worth, since it looks like I'll burn through it quicker than I thought.

    Thanks!

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  2. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Welcome. I haven't heard anything about eliminating the EBT. You can check your stove, it is in the front center under the stove enclosed in a small steel box with an air intake hole on the bottom.

    For the longest burns you should turn down the air as much as possible. The control doesn't work the same as older air-tight stoves. Mid-setting is too much air. As the wood becomes fully aflame, turn the air control until the flames get lazy. Wait 5 minutes or so, then repeat, setting it down lower. On our stove we can pretty much shut it all the way down with a hot stove.
  3. juneau10

    juneau10 New Member

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    Right. I guess my question was how much reasonable heat does one get out of it at different settings. Running it the past few weeks, it can definitely hold an easily-rekindleable fire for 12 hours if you load it up, let it light off, and the shut it down. The amount of heat for the last 5-4 hours is pretty low though, and it seems to take a good while (30 min) to fire it up enough to get the secondaries to light off. To get enough heat in the house the past couple of nights, it's been pretty much load it full, keep the primary and fan at 1/3-1/2, and requires a reload in 4-6 hours or it'll be pretty dead after 8. Guess it's just fuel in = total heat out!

    That said, I just got off the phone with tech support at Pacific Energy that others might be interested in. Turns out the model B of the summit *does* have a different EBT mechanism from the previous versions. Instead of a bimetallic strip that controls boost (primary) air, the new one (called GBT or EBTv2) is different. It's not a bimetalic strip, but rather a sort of draft-controlled set of holes that adjusts the secondary air. It's supposed to have a little higher output, and hold fire a little bit longer. Need to think a little bit on how that operates differently.

    Cheers!
  4. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Interesting. I haven't found any docs on this yet. Sounds like Tom is going to have to do a new write up for the GBT.
  5. paladin

    paladin New Member

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    We installed a summit this fall and it turned out to be a series B as they did a running series change. The way I found out is by checking the new installation instructions this spring online and the rear clearance changed from when I checked the installation instructions last winter . The EBT is now called a secondary air box when you look at the new stoves parts list. It is a metal box center rear with some smaller holes in it and a large hole in the bottom with a flapper that is kind of weighted off center--no springs or other things just a flapper. It seems to maybe work barametric damper, as you can hear it when the wind blows and the stove does not seem to be affected by wind. I like the stove a lot and it seem to heat well. I have pictures of the secondary air box I will try to post them. Long live the Summit

    Attached Files:

  6. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Baro secondary air control. Hooyah. Addresses the Florida Bungalow Syndrome maybe.
  7. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Thanks for the post paladin. I still haven't gotten my head around how this is supposed to work. The original EBT feeds the boost manifold, not the secondaries. Is this plumbed differently or does it still feed the boost manifold at the bottom front of the firebox?
  8. paladin

    paladin New Member

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    The secondary air box is to the rear and fits over the square tube that runs up and feeds the baffle. How it works or what it does not 100% sure. Thought I knew all I could about the Summit before I bought one (from lots of searching here) then I ended up with a series B now I have some more to learn. P E seems to build great stoves with very few problems so time will tell on the series B. Stove seems to work well still learning about operation, as I removed a V.C. encore (2006 model) and replaced it with the Summit.
  9. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Ah hah, that's a complete change from the original EBT and I like it. The original EBT worked on primary air. I now wonder if they still have the boost manifold and how this is fed if it still exists? Care to take a shot of the underside of the stove up front near the air control?

    Looks like I have to get in to a showroom and see this new setup. PE is pretty quiet about this alteration on their website. But it seems like a significant change. Enough to warrant expensive retesting.
    Huntindog1 likes this.
  10. juneau10

    juneau10 New Member

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    The CSR I talked with at PE said that the boost manifold still exists, but it has smaller holes than it did with the EBTv1.

    I guess I've never really understood how the secondary air is typically controlled. On the few stoves I've looked at and tried to figure out, the secondary air is uncontrolled... just a "calibrated" hole that limits how much it can suck in. With that, the air that comes in would be a function of primary setting, and the temperature which affects the draft. I guess with the EBTv2 controlling secondary air, it is trying to regulate it under varying draft conditions. The photo looks like it will open wider the stronger the draft is. Hrm...

  11. paladin

    paladin New Member

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    The primary air ( or boost manifold) in the front is still controlled with a single lever that covers and uncovers a hole and the air still feeds towards the front of the fire. The secondary air manifold must just have the right amount of holes in it to control the right amount of air. The stove seems to work well, I have not had to load it really heavy in the weather that we have had yet. I also ordered the blower which seems to really throw the heat out, and the ash pan system which works well for me so far. I always rake the coals and charcoal to the middle or front after burning or before starting so I mainly get ash when I use the ash pan system. I have also made a small rake that works wonders for this procedure.
  12. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Make sure there are no clinkers or strays stuck in the ash trap door. Just a little bit will stop it from closing tightly. That will affect the burn by admitting extra air there. You may notice a bright glow in the coal at that location too.

    Primary air used to be separate from the boost air, mostly going to the airwash I think. Check underneath, front and center and see if there is a small, unregulated intake hole there. If so, that is the boost air intake. Can't say for sure because I have not seen the new design myself.
  13. paladin

    paladin New Member

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    I should have added when I do use it I do have to give a good wiggle or two so the door does'nt have any ash or coals on it so the door closes and latches good. I do like it, the ash flying around is to a min. I did it with a shovel for years and years back when I had an old Greenbriar stove from the 70's. This is a lot better, the Encore had a nice ash system but it seemed smaller.
  14. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    When did they start putting ash pans in the Summit insert?
  15. paladin

    paladin New Member

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    Sorry should have been clearer this is a regular Summit with legs.
  16. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    The first posting is clearly about an insert, thus the confusion. So these changes are on all Summits? Time for some pictures if you can. Are you a dealer?
  17. paladin

    paladin New Member

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    No I am not a dealer, Sorry just thought I would show how a new series B regular summit is I would think the inserts would be about the same for the internals. We can talk more about regular Summits (series B)maybe in another thread.
  18. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    No problem. We are learning along with you. Thanks for adding your stove to your sig.
  19. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    I'd like to see photos of that Summit in the fireplace....

    And get a block off plate installed in the damper area of the old fireplace. This will help keep heat in and our into the home, rather than up the old chimney.
  20. certified106

    certified106 Minister of Fire

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    Welcome to the forums!
    I Just got done reading this thread and have to say this is a pretty neat development on PE's part. I wonder if this is something that you can retrofit a T6 with? I would love to give this thing a try and see how it affects my stove and report back of course.....;)
  21. juneau10

    juneau10 New Member

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    Are you referring to my installation? I did insulate the fireplace as best I could. I talked with PE about that and they said insulating the shroud was not acceptable, but the insulating the fireplace was. It was barely big enough to fit the Summit, so I've got 3" of Roxul around most of it except the very top of the back. There I used some leftover chimney liner insulation (1/2" blanket with foil layer). Between the blockoff plate and the top of the stove is 3 layers... :)
  22. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Had the same thought, but so far I'm not sure I know the full extent of changes on the series B stoves. This is a balanced system so they may have made a group of changes, the new EBT being only one of them.
  23. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Ok, is it an insert or free standing stove. I thought you corrected and said it was a free standing. Only the insert has a "shroud". And you should not be insulating around the stove or insert itself. I suppose it would be fine to insulate the old fireplace inner walls. You should install a block off plate where the liner goes through the old fireplace damper(if you have not already done so). this keeps the heat from going up and getting absorbed by the masonry chimney, and being released to the outside. You can roxul the top of the block of plate if you want. Insulating around either the stove or insert, whichever it is, will only keep the heat inside the stove, rather the release it out to the home.
    Pictures would be really helpful in understanding what you got going on.
  24. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Looks like we have a couple folks with new series B stoves. juneau has the insert, paladin has the free-stander.
  25. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Ah, ok, I did miss that. Doh

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