PE Summit... Where's The Big Heat?

[Zzyk]

OK I must be doing something very wrong. The new stove (PE Summit) seems to be running well with the addition of a pipe damper (thanks) with long burn times and low wood consumption. Great I say, but where's the big heat? Tonight I'm struggling to heat the first floor with 30 degree outside temps. I ended up firing up the old stove to warm it up. I am impressed by the long burn times and consistent heat, but what can I do to make it produce more heat when I need it? Seems like at best all I get is a consistent moderate output.

Thanks in advance, I know I'm a bit nuts...

 

[snowtime]

My T6 has got the same firebox. First you do not say what temps your running the stove at. Many around here run theirs at 500 or so and this is good for warmer days but I have found if you want serious heat from this sucker then higher temps are needed. I measure the temp on the steel fire box 5" in front and 5" to side of chimney. I have not needed it yet but I did some extended tests because it gets cold here.
I have found that my T6 starts really putting out at 750 up to 800. If you can not get it there then you need to change your burning tactics. The damper will be good for controlling fire but if closed to much will limit its temps. If you time your reloads you can keep the temp between 450 and 800. Thats reload at 450 and the stove will go to 800 with the air closed after you make sure the wood has been charred. For high temps always load when you still have a good amount of coals 2" through out the box at least.
If you installed the pipe damper because you could not get long burn times than I think you do need to change your loading methods. Try loading NS with big splits [rounds even better] and fill the spaces with small splits. If this stove is loaded up and turned down after fire has got going it should last all night. Mine does and I burn pine.
You could run the stove hot during the day and just use the damper at night if you can not get long burn times. Time for you to experiment with different burning techniques.

 

[Zzyk]

Thanks for all the information. I've been running the stovetop between 500 and 800 mostly. I installed the pipe damper because everytime I loaded the stove, charred the wood, and cut the air, I would pin the stovetop thermometer (900 degrees) and it would stay there for a long time. Minor adjustment of the pipe damper keeps this from happening. Burn times are great, loaded it last night at midnight and at 8 this morning I still have a huge bed of coals, so no problems there. My problem seems to be I can't figure out how to burn more wood/produce heat faster when the weather calls for it. Granted it hasn't been bad here yet and I'm already struggling to keep the wife happy (she likes it to be at least 65 downstairs). Maybe my wood is not dry enough? Currently I'm burning mostly sugar maple, soft maple, and ironwood. Its all been split and stacked for 18 months.

Could be I'm just asking too much from the stove.

Puzzled
Chris

 

[crazy_dan]

how big is the house ? Do you have a fan blowing across the stove? My Summit doesn't seem to heat very much without a fan blowing the heat around.

 

[kenny chaos]

If you're really running your stove top at 800 degrees, there's not much more you can get out of it. It sounds like it's running fine.

 

[Zzyk]

Thanks for the advice. The house is 2400 sq ft, mostly insulated. First floor is very open with three ceiling fans. Can get the front half quite warm, back half decent, but its not cold yet. Guessing I'm asking for a bit much from this stove. I was hoping it would produce like the old stove, have good burn times, and use less wood... Well two out of three is impressive, and I don't have to feed it every hour or so...

 

[begreen]

If the stove is running at 500-800 for hours on end, the issue is not with the stove. It's the house which is leaking btus badly. Looks for some obvious possibilities like windows that need caulking, attic hatches that need sealing, whole house attic vent grilles that need winter blocks in them, leaky doors, leaky basement sill plates.

 

[Highbeam]

A second thermometer to check the stove temps might be a good idea if the summit is having a hard time with a medium sized 2400 SF.

 

[Todd]

What direction are your ceiling fans turning? Ceiling fans should be drawing the air upwards and that will force the warm air that's trapped down along the walls.

 

[spiffy1]

If the stove is running at 500-800 for hours on end, the issue is not with the stove. It's the house which is leaking btus badly. Looks for some obvious possibilities like windows that need caulking, attic hatches that need sealing, whole house attic vent grilles that need winter blocks in them, leaky doors, leaky basement sill plates.

In the garage I'm using as a workshop, the leaks were visually obvious, but sure showed me the effects being even more pronounced than I suspected: doors, windows and attic floor [hatches needed, and floor board gaps] were the big offenders.

Improved sealing between the bottom of doors & the floor and made attic hatchs, took me from a 20F temp rise with a roaring fire [then dampered nearly shut, to hold the burn back a bit, yet around 500-600 on the stove pipe, while 'keeping the heat in the stove'; old technology on the stove, but that seems to be it's sweet spot] to 40F with same fire.

Fixing windows, added another 20F, and yet another by sealing the attic floor cracks; it can be 20's outside, and 80 inside now even without feeding the stove as often. That's no insulation, only siding over shiplap [of course, a small fraction of the square feet compared to the house in question here]; I believe adding some real simple ceiling insulation will allow me to have nearly any inside temp regardless of outside temps.

 

[iceman]

insulation insulation, i added it and now struggle to get my living up to 80
before i could do it easily .... but the rst of the house was much cooler
since i added insulation in the ceiling now i struggle to get the room to 76-78 because with the somewhat open the hesat moves much better when it is 76 downstairs its usually 72-74 upstairs hallway with rooms - 1-2 less than that
but i siliconed 30 outta the 45 windows also
where do you have your thermometer at on the stove? my insert will hit 800-900 sometimes but as long as it only stays for an hr or so i don't worry..
but if you aren't moving the air you will have issues
i am heating 3000+

 

[Rich L]

insulation insulation, i added it and now struggle to get my living up to 80
before i could do it easily .... but the rst of the house was much cooler
since i added insulation in the ceiling now i struggle to get the room to 76-78 because with the somewhat open the hesat moves much better when it is 76 downstairs its usually 72-74 upstairs hallway with rooms - 1-2 less than that
but i siliconed 30 outta the 45 windows also
where do you have your thermometer at on the stove? my insert will hit 800-900 sometimes but as long as it only stays for an hr or so i don't worry..
but if you aren't moving the air you will have issues
i am heating 3000+

Iceman I'm confused are you saying that it's harder to heat your house after you added insulation? If so why is it so?

 

[iceman]

insulation insulation, i added it and now struggle to get my living up to 80
before i could do it easily .... but the rst of the house was much cooler
since i added insulation in the ceiling now i struggle to get the room to 76-78 because with the somewhat open the hesat moves much better when it is 76 downstairs its usually 72-74 upstairs hallway with rooms - 1-2 less than that
but i siliconed 30 outta the 45 windows also
where do you have your thermometer at on the stove? my insert will hit 800-900 sometimes but as long as it only stays for an hr or so i don't worry..
but if you aren't moving the air you will have issues
i am heating 3000+

Iceman I'm confused are you saying that it's harder to heat your house after you added insulation? If so why is it so?

no i am sorry for the confusion, the room with the stove in it would get 80-85 easily and the rest of the would be in the 50s-60s if i left all of my doors open (upstairs)
now the living room struggles to warm up to 80's as with all the insulation on the ceiling the heat flows much better through the house .. if i leave all the doors open all the rooms are 65-75 when the living room (with the stove) is usually 5 degrees warmer
and my house is WIDE so 68 is 40+ feet from the stove
the insulation made such a difference i wanna blow more in

 

[FatttFire]

OH GOD! :ahhh: this is what scares me about shelving my Fisher, and buying a Summit! Alot of $ to get poor performance!

 

[karl]

if i leave all the doors open all the rooms are 65-75 when the living room (with the stove) is usually 5 degrees warmer


I have roughly the same size house and the same stove only in the insert version. The insert doesn't heat as well as the stove will. I get the temperatures you're talking about when its 20 degrees outside. I would look at putting a blower on the stove. That will help alot. Also, look at better insulating the house.

Heating 2400 square feet to 65-75 is pretty good. Alot of people would love to be that warm, for what it costs us.

 

[Zzyk]

Thanks everyone for all the advice. Guess I was just used to the old stove and the big heat it would throw off although I don't miss the frequent reloads.

The house definitely needs work (its old), but the first floor isn't bad. Mostly insulated at this point, and the windows have been caulked and plasticed for winter. The basement has some draft issues and I bet I'm drawing some cold air up from down there. Upstairs has some problems, but if I can keep it over 50 when its really cold I'm happy. If I have time this week I might install an outside air kit for the stove (looks simple enough). Then I'll start working on the drafts...

Chris

 

[Dix]

Upstairs has some problems,

That's proably a big part of your problem. The heats rising .... up, up, and way :gulp:

 

[Hogwildz]

Heating 2400sf here, had to open the door last night and fell asleep with it open. Was 82 when I opened the door and I was sweating, woke up about an hr later and it was 78.
You have some serious leaky spots in that place.
You can't blame the stove for the homes loss of heat.
Yes the bigger fisher may have heated more, with 2x the wood or more and much more loading.
Get the house tight if you want to get the most of your heat from the stove kept in the living space.
A blower would help distribute the heat better also.

 

[kenny chaos]

I must concur with the idea of more insulation.
I found a list of r-values today that showed snow has twice the r-value of my stone walls.

 

[begreen]

OH GOD! :ahhh: this is what scares me about shelving my Fisher, and buying a Summit! Alot of $ to get poor performance!

Don't worry. As long as the house is reasonably tight it'll heat it well. willhound is in the chilly Canadian north and has been warm and toasty with his Summit for a few years now. But if you like to run the stove with the windows wide open, well, you're going to be feeling some drafts. It's a stove, not a nuclear furnace after all. (Well, with the possible exception of Hog's Summit. ;-))

 

[begreen]

Thanks everyone for all the advice. Guess I was just used to the old stove and the big heat it would throw off although I don't miss the frequent reloads.

The house definitely needs work (its old), but the first floor isn't bad. Mostly insulated at this point, and the windows have been caulked and plasticed for winter. The basement has some draft issues and I bet I'm drawing some cold air up from down there. Upstairs has some problems, but if I can keep it over 50 when its really cold I'm happy. If I have time this week I might install an outside air kit for the stove (looks simple enough). Then I'll start working on the drafts...

Chris

Sounds like the house may be acting like a chimney with cold air being pulled up from the basement, heated by the stove, then heading upstairs and out of the house. Is the upstairs occupied and used at this point or could it be closed off?

 

[Zzyk]

Sounds like the house may be acting like a chimney with cold air being pulled up from the basement, heated by the stove, then heading upstairs and out of the house. Is the upstairs occupied and used at this point or could it be closed off?

This seems very plausible and might explain why someone insulated a large portion of the first floor ceiling. I could seal off some of the second floor to cut down on the heat loss there. Of the four rooms we use, two are insulated and two are not. The ceiling in the hallway is probably the worst offender, I could probably build a framed drop ceiling with heavy insulation above it. Eventually I need to address the basement, but I can't do more than minor patchwork right now.

 

[begreen]

For the basement, I'd suggest nothing more than a caulking gun, some foam rope for big gaps, and maybe some Great Stuff. Turn out the lights. If you see any daylight, seal it up. Then use a punk or incense stick around the sill and if cold air is leaking the smoke will show it, seal it.

Pretty crazy to insulate between floors unless the intent is to seal off the upstairs. Is there an attic above the 2nd floor? If yes, what's the access to that location? How is this area insulated? Look for possible cold sources. Our neighbors had stairs going to their stand up attic. There was a door at the top of the stairs, but not weatherstripped or sealed. The cold air pouring down the attic stairs was surprising. Sealed the door with weatherstripping and insulated it. Now the place is much easier to heat.

 

[RonB]

It will probably take you a season to learn how to efficiently run the new stove. They do behave differently than the older classic stoves. However, when I made the switch to the large Quad I still had plenty of heat while I learned. Are you heating 24/7 or just periods of the day? It takes a while to get an entire house and all of its furnishings up to temp. Your old Fisher used radiant heat and your new one uses likely uses convection to heat (primarily). I noticed that difference when I upgraded to a new stove. By tweaking your house you will eventually be comfortable with the new stove. But I think the more interesting component of this thread is: Why was the Fisher able to heat the house satisfactorily and a newer large stove is not?? Let's delve into this question as it intrigues me and I have room to grow in this area. Anyone have any ideas? This would be valuable knowledge for anyone considering changing out an older type stove for the EPA certified modern stoves.

 

[kenny chaos]

There must be something about those old Fishers. My buddy around the corner didn't want to hear anything about my new Liberty. He was very happy with his Fisher and if that's the case, why bother considering a new one?
My old tin box had a 5+cu.ft. firebox and could crank out some heat. It was a real hard choice to give it up. I didn't like how much wood it required and finding the walls glowing red and pulsing in and out like it was ready to blow or melt down. That didn't happen a lot but it was tough to control on high heat.
I'm real happy with the new stove because it is much safer and easier to control, eats a lot less, and the factory blower really moves air well. In the long run, that equates to more, cheaper, and easier heat.