PE Summit... Where's The Big Heat?

[Bigg_Redd]

OK I must be doing something very wrong. The new stove (PE Summit) seems to be running well with the addition of a pipe damper (thanks) with long burn times and low wood consumption. Great I say, but where's the big heat? Tonight I'm struggling to heat the first floor with 30 degree outside temps. I ended up firing up the old stove to warm it up. I am impressed by the long burn times and consistent heat, but what can I do to make it produce more heat when I need it? Seems like at best all I get is a consistent moderate output.

Thanks in advance, I know I'm a bit nuts...

Shorten those burn times - lean the fire out.

 

[Todd]

It will probably take you a season to learn how to efficiently run the new stove. They do behave differently than the older classic stoves. However, when I made the switch to the large Quad I still had plenty of heat while I learned. Are you heating 24/7 or just periods of the day? It takes a while to get an entire house and all of its furnishings up to temp. Your old Fisher used radiant heat and your new one uses likely uses convection to heat (primarily). I noticed that difference when I upgraded to a new stove. By tweaking your house you will eventually be comfortable with the new stove. But I think the more interesting component of this thread is: Why was the Fisher able to heat the house satisfactorily and a newer large stove is not?? Let's delve into this question as it intrigues me and I have room to grow in this area. Anyone have any ideas? This would be valuable knowledge for anyone considering changing out an older type stove for the EPA certified modern stoves.

This isn't the first time I've heard this on here. People get use to that walk out into the sun feel of a radiant stove, then go out and buy a convection stove and get a different heat feel. Radiant stoves have an advantage of producing both radiant and a natural convection heat, but have the disadvantage of higher clearance requirements than a convection stove.

 

[Todd]

Thanks everyone for all the advice. Guess I was just used to the old stove and the big heat it would throw off although I don't miss the frequent reloads.

The house definitely needs work (its old), but the first floor isn't bad. Mostly insulated at this point, and the windows have been caulked and plasticed for winter. The basement has some draft issues and I bet I'm drawing some cold air up from down there. Upstairs has some problems, but if I can keep it over 50 when its really cold I'm happy. If I have time this week I might install an outside air kit for the stove (looks simple enough). Then I'll start working on the drafts...

Chris

Sounds like the house may be acting like a chimney with cold air being pulled up from the basement, heated by the stove, then heading upstairs and out of the house. Is the upstairs occupied and used at this point or could it be closed off?

Huh? This is a first. How does a house pull up cold dense air from a basement when it wants to naturally sink?

Outside air kit will help along with insulation and caulking.

 

[bokehman]

Huh? This is a first. How does a house pull up cold dense air from a basement when it wants to naturally sink?

Stove heats air. Hot air rises. Hot air escapes through leaky roof. Lost hot air is replaced by air that enters from below.

 

[Todd]

Huh? This is a first. How does a house pull up cold dense air from a basement when it wants to naturally sink?

Stove heats air. Hot air rises. Hot air escapes through leaky roof. Lost hot air is replaced by air that enters from below.

I could see that if the stove was located in the basement but not if its on the main floor. What about the cold air leaking down from the roof? More likely the cold air is falling down than up from the basement. A stove will recoup cold makeup air from the closest source like a nearby window or door, there is no way it has enough power to suck it up from a basement.

 

[Zzyk]

It will probably take you a season to learn how to efficiently run the new stove. They do behave differently than the older classic stoves. However, when I made the switch to the large Quad I still had plenty of heat while I learned. Are you heating 24/7 or just periods of the day? It takes a while to get an entire house and all of its furnishings up to temp. Your old Fisher used radiant heat and your new one uses likely uses convection to heat (primarily). I noticed that difference when I upgraded to a new stove. By tweaking your house you will eventually be comfortable with the new stove. But I think the more interesting component of this thread is: Why was the Fisher able to heat the house satisfactorily and a newer large stove is not?? Let's delve into this question as it intrigues me and I have room to grow in this area. Anyone have any ideas? This would be valuable knowledge for anyone considering changing out an older type stove for the EPA certified modern stoves.

RonB,

The old stove was a giant, cranky, hungry beast. I don't miss it much. However, when needed, it could throw alot of heat quickly. I could achieve much higher room temps in much colder weather than I have with the new stove (but I'm still working out on it). I could also bring the house up to temperature much more quickly. Granted, it would also gobble wood at a horrific rate and heat up everything in the room until it was scary. With the new stove I'm learning to keep it good and hot 24/7 so I don't need that big ruch of heat as much.

Lastly I can't say enough about the long burn times with the new stove... No more 50 degree mornings.

 

[Highbeam]

Huh? This is a first. How does a house pull up cold dense air from a basement when it wants to naturally sink?

Stove heats air. Hot air rises. Hot air escapes through leaky roof. Lost hot air is replaced by air that enters from below.

I could see that if the stove was located in the basement but not if its on the main floor. What about the cold air leaking down from the roof? More likely the cold air is falling down than up from the basement. A stove will recoup cold makeup air from the closest source like a nearby window or door, there is no way it has enough power to suck it up from a basement.

I think boke has it right. The hot air will rise up and out through the leaks in the ceiling. The hot air in the home is less dense and wants to rise. The outside air is denser at the roofline than the air in the home but not as dense as the outside air that is pushing into the cracks in the basement.

So imagine you are in a submarine and have a hole in the bottom and a hole in the top. Bubbles will rise out of the top hole and water will come in through the bottom hole to replace the lost air until the whole submarine is full of water. You won't get water coming in from the top so long as you have a hole in the bottom.

 

[begreen]

Huh? This is a first. How does a house pull up cold dense air from a basement when it wants to naturally sink?

Stove heats air. Hot air rises. Hot air escapes through leaky roof. Lost hot air is replaced by air that enters from below.

I could see that if the stove was located in the basement but not if its on the main floor. What about the cold air leaking down from the roof? More likely the cold air is falling down than up from the basement. A stove will recoup cold makeup air from the closest source like a nearby window or door, there is no way it has enough power to suck it up from a basement.

Actually I've seen (well more like smelled) just that and we've had reports of it here occasionally. Think of a situation where there are both upstairs and basement fireplaces. If the first floor is fairly tight, the combustion air drawn when the upper fireplace is roaring can be enough to create negative draft in the basement and suck smoke from the active chimney down the flue of the inactive basement fireplace. In a bad case it can fill the basement up with smoke.

 

[Todd]

Huh? This is a first. How does a house pull up cold dense air from a basement when it wants to naturally sink?

Stove heats air. Hot air rises. Hot air escapes through leaky roof. Lost hot air is replaced by air that enters from below.

I could see that if the stove was located in the basement but not if its on the main floor. What about the cold air leaking down from the roof? More likely the cold air is falling down than up from the basement. A stove will recoup cold makeup air from the closest source like a nearby window or door, there is no way it has enough power to suck it up from a basement.

Actually I've seen (well more like smelled) just that and we've had reports of it here occasionally. Think of a situation where there are both upstairs and basement fireplaces. If the first floor is fairly tight, the combustion air drawn when the upper fireplace is roaring can be enough to create negative draft in the basement and suck smoke from the active chimney down the flue of the inactive basement fireplace. In a bad case it can fill the basement up with smoke.

Ok, i get it, in fact Begreens senario has happened in my house before I installed an extenda flue and OAK's.