PE Super Insert. Opinions/Info?
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It's going to be fun to learn this stove! It is running on almost blackout conditions, just flickering in and out of lazy secondaries and staying quite hot still, like 550 plus with air anywhere from closed to just open. I'm only running spruce in it too.
It seems like it's sealed up good, as I have lots of control with the air, almost seems like more control than my summit?
It seems like it's sealed up good, as I have lots of control with the air, almost seems like more control than my summit?
About 8 ft more chimney on the Summit IIRC. That will make a difference.
Yah right about that for height difference, maybe a 1' less? But my summit liner is uninsulated and only 5.5". I thought it was six inch when I installed it and that's what I remember being told it was, but I'm sure the guy at the hardware store just glossed over that part for me. The more I've messed with it I'm quite certain it's 5.5"s
So it had me wondering if this chimney being properly sized and coming straight off the appliance and insulated the whole way might not be giving me better draft than my undersized, uninsulated liner with two 90's in it. Despite the 8' (maybe only 7')of difference.
Also curious if this older air system will allow more control than the newer ebt2 on the summit?
I'm already thinking about pulling that downstairs liner when I do my roof up chimney rebuild and busting out tiles and getting a proper sized insulated liner down to that stove? Everything I've learned with this installation has made me not like my first downstairs one as much. It works fine and I believe it to be safe. But it's not to code I believe now. Even though a certified WETT sweep passed it for insurance inspection?
So it had me wondering if this chimney being properly sized and coming straight off the appliance and insulated the whole way might not be giving me better draft than my undersized, uninsulated liner with two 90's in it. Despite the 8' (maybe only 7')of difference.
Also curious if this older air system will allow more control than the newer ebt2 on the summit?
I'm already thinking about pulling that downstairs liner when I do my roof up chimney rebuild and busting out tiles and getting a proper sized insulated liner down to that stove? Everything I've learned with this installation has made me not like my first downstairs one as much. It works fine and I believe it to be safe. But it's not to code I believe now. Even though a certified WETT sweep passed it for insurance inspection?
If the stove is drawing strong now, switching to an insulated liner would make it draw stronger. Don't know what the code is ofr insulated liners in Canada. Maybe give the WETT sweep that passed it a call and ask.
I don't think I'll call and ask. I'm sure it reads the same, I don't have the code book in front of me, it's in my truck. But it's 2"s interior and 1" exterior for masonry chimneys. Seems no one around installs insulated liners and they just 'assume' the chimney is up to code.
So in my basement where his big concern was my shielding of the wood ceiling. He had zero concern with that wood continuing to and contacting the chimney literally two feet above the thimble. To me, my interior chimney doesn't meet code right there because that wood and the trim are right against the chimney.
So in my basement where his big concern was my shielding of the wood ceiling. He had zero concern with that wood continuing to and contacting the chimney literally two feet above the thimble. To me, my interior chimney doesn't meet code right there because that wood and the trim are right against the chimney.
What i was wondering by control is if the newer ebt2 system takes some of the control out of the air supply possibly compared to this older insert?
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
With thermo in front center, it will climb high on the needle. No worries, as long as nothing is glowing, on the body, you're good to go. The fan will hum on low.
What the hell is that periscope looking thing on your stack?
What the hell is that periscope looking thing on your stack?
Lol. That's rigid liner right out the top with their extenda cap. By their instructions you can go as far out as you want as long as no joint is exposed. My closest joint is well within the clay liner still. That gained me a good bit of stack height.
Up periscope!
Thanks for the advice on the temps. So far it's burning beautifully, really happy I changed this up. The wife and kid love it too, well my wife does. The kid is 12 so she isn't easily impressed.
Up periscope!
Thanks for the advice on the temps. So far it's burning beautifully, really happy I changed this up. The wife and kid love it too, well my wife does. The kid is 12 so she isn't easily impressed.
Well tonight I had to light both stoves because the kids bedroom is in the basement so there's no not heating from below, so I just kept a small fire in the insert and it's around freezing here tonight and just cooking in the house. I am loving this serious firepower against the cold.
So far I'm blown away with the burn times this insert is giving me on relatively small loads. It keeps really strong temps on that front thermometer and will coal up nicely on just a couple split load and just lick away with lazy secondaries forever. I'll be curious to see what kind of overnight burns I can pull out of it.
I've been messing with the blower a bit and find now that without my ear right up by it I don't notice that hum on the low setting, and when set on low it's very unobtrusive.
So far I'm blown away with the burn times this insert is giving me on relatively small loads. It keeps really strong temps on that front thermometer and will coal up nicely on just a couple split load and just lick away with lazy secondaries forever. I'll be curious to see what kind of overnight burns I can pull out of it.
I've been messing with the blower a bit and find now that without my ear right up by it I don't notice that hum on the low setting, and when set on low it's very unobtrusive.
So I've been burning nearly daily in it and roasTing us right out as I have to run the basement stove too. We are going to see our first real bit of winter this next week at -10-15C. I'm pretty sure I will have zero worries of keeping up with the two stoves.
But. I'm a stickler for details and I remember thinking 'I'll double check the mantle clearance once the insert is actually in'. Well I did and it's 23.5"s to the bottom of the combustible mantle and it calls for 24"s. This has prompted me to be keeping a close eye on it with my IR gun while I figure out how best to tastefully shield it. So far I've seen 150f on it and the insert was warm but I wasn't pushing it hard at all. I've got left over 1" copper spacers from my shielding I made for my downstairs stove. ill have to cut the backside of it to match the contours of the rocks of the fireplace a bit otherwise the air gap will be to big in some spots to shield effectively. I'm worried it's going to look goofy on the mantle, but paint it black I guess and hope for the best?
I'll be searching around a bunch but if anyone has a photo of their mantle shield that they'd like to share it'd be appreciated.
By the way the bear is holding my auberins remote read out for the stove downstairs. My wife hates it there. Lol. It's usual spot is blocked by the Christmas tree for the holidays.
But. I'm a stickler for details and I remember thinking 'I'll double check the mantle clearance once the insert is actually in'. Well I did and it's 23.5"s to the bottom of the combustible mantle and it calls for 24"s. This has prompted me to be keeping a close eye on it with my IR gun while I figure out how best to tastefully shield it. So far I've seen 150f on it and the insert was warm but I wasn't pushing it hard at all. I've got left over 1" copper spacers from my shielding I made for my downstairs stove. ill have to cut the backside of it to match the contours of the rocks of the fireplace a bit otherwise the air gap will be to big in some spots to shield effectively. I'm worried it's going to look goofy on the mantle, but paint it black I guess and hope for the best?
I'll be searching around a bunch but if anyone has a photo of their mantle shield that they'd like to share it'd be appreciated.
By the way the bear is holding my auberins remote read out for the stove downstairs. My wife hates it there. Lol. It's usual spot is blocked by the Christmas tree for the holidays.
Looking good!
Is the 23.5" to the lower board or the underside of the upper mantel board? If just the lower board the projection for a shield wouldn't have to be as large.
Is the 23.5" to the lower board or the underside of the upper mantel board? If just the lower board the projection for a shield wouldn't have to be as large.
Good thinking. Yes the 23.5" is to the bottom of the low board. So I could make the shield very small as that board is only 3/4" wide. But the higher board is only reading about 1 degree cooler despite being well outside the 24"s. Right now with a tiny fire in the insert (but burning all day) I'm reading 129 in the bottom of the lower board and 128 on the underside of the upper board. This is almost dead centre and the highest temps on either surface I can find.
So I may make the shield protrude enough to shield the upper mantle board too. but maybe not if I don't really need too. This shield will be under massive scrutiny by my wife and daughter. I scared them with what I did downstairs I think. Lol.
Did you ever take an IR reading there with a good all day fire in the fireplace? I'd keep an eye (or instrument on it) but wouldn worry too much if temps stay below about 170º.
I did never take any readings with the previous open fireplace. We rarely used it, just as ambiance.
Maybe I'll just monitor it for awhile, my wife is underwhelmed with the idea of a shield.
I was just a bit shocked when I first checked actual temps and found 150 on there. I've yet to load this stove right up. So I was kind of surprised, it was running decently warm though.
This insert really seems to idle along well on a tiny fire. I mean in comparison to my summit which does best it seems with a full load, you can put a bit smaller load in and still get it to perform ok. But this insert I can literally feed it one piece at a time and it gets great burn times and hot temps. Nice flame and secondaries too. The chimney is definetly pulling well, I get no smoke spillage, zero starting issues, and no ash spillage even.
It's working really well for me being able to burn a smaller fire in it to supplement the summit in the basement which runs mostly 24/7.
You can see in the pic how I'm just feeding it one piece at a time. The fresh piece is taking right off! Beautiful endless seeming secondary flame show once the piece is settled in and air cut right back.
Maybe I'll just monitor it for awhile, my wife is underwhelmed with the idea of a shield.
I was just a bit shocked when I first checked actual temps and found 150 on there. I've yet to load this stove right up. So I was kind of surprised, it was running decently warm though.
This insert really seems to idle along well on a tiny fire. I mean in comparison to my summit which does best it seems with a full load, you can put a bit smaller load in and still get it to perform ok. But this insert I can literally feed it one piece at a time and it gets great burn times and hot temps. Nice flame and secondaries too. The chimney is definetly pulling well, I get no smoke spillage, zero starting issues, and no ash spillage even.
It's working really well for me being able to burn a smaller fire in it to supplement the summit in the basement which runs mostly 24/7.
You can see in the pic how I'm just feeding it one piece at a time. The fresh piece is taking right off! Beautiful endless seeming secondary flame show once the piece is settled in and air cut right back.
So just over a month of burning and my chimney effectively plugged up enough to severely hamper draft. I cleaned it out and there wasn't a ton of creo but enough to mess things up, sorry didn't measure I'd say like 3cups if I had to guess? and a little bit of flaky stage two creo as well. The cap had caused the most blockage I think, it has a mesh but it's a large squared mesh, didn't think it'd be a problem but it may have to go. As my other chimney has no mesh and no issues with the summit downstairs.
Both stoves are fed from the same pile and my summit looks like it has little to no build up. Whereas the super was having draft problem. Now we have had a unseasonably cold winter staying between -10 to -20c for quite a stretch here. So I don't know if that could be affecting build up on the cap? But I had throughout the liner, not just at the top, there was creo build up right off the collar. So I'm thinking I am not getting this thing up to temp.
I was monitoring the face of the super with a magnetic thermometer just above the door. It was reading shockingly high a lot of the time. So I've now moved it onto the stovetop where I can view it with a flashlight and will have to guess a bit at what it actually reads, but I'll have a good idea. It's effectively in the same position on the super as my stovetop magnet thermo is on the summit.
I'm not sure if there's anything else I could be overlooking here? Open to any brainstorming or thoughts?
I was not burning this super like I do my summit. On the summit I do full to the brim loads and load three or four times a day. I was running smaller loads in the super and at times just tossing a log on now and then as it seemed to be running really hot. So operator error obviously is part of the equation , but I was certainly mislead by the face thermo readings. It's a condar stovepipe thermo and most of the time it was reading in the 'wasting fuel' section which I believe is 475+. I could peg it it seemed by just turning my air up marginally.
So for now, I'm going to run it like the summit, full loads, offgassed hot. I aim for 700 stovetop on the hottest part of my burn on the summit and will be looking to do the same on the super now.
Both stoves are fed from the same pile and my summit looks like it has little to no build up. Whereas the super was having draft problem. Now we have had a unseasonably cold winter staying between -10 to -20c for quite a stretch here. So I don't know if that could be affecting build up on the cap? But I had throughout the liner, not just at the top, there was creo build up right off the collar. So I'm thinking I am not getting this thing up to temp.
I was monitoring the face of the super with a magnetic thermometer just above the door. It was reading shockingly high a lot of the time. So I've now moved it onto the stovetop where I can view it with a flashlight and will have to guess a bit at what it actually reads, but I'll have a good idea. It's effectively in the same position on the super as my stovetop magnet thermo is on the summit.
I'm not sure if there's anything else I could be overlooking here? Open to any brainstorming or thoughts?
I was not burning this super like I do my summit. On the summit I do full to the brim loads and load three or four times a day. I was running smaller loads in the super and at times just tossing a log on now and then as it seemed to be running really hot. So operator error obviously is part of the equation , but I was certainly mislead by the face thermo readings. It's a condar stovepipe thermo and most of the time it was reading in the 'wasting fuel' section which I believe is 475+. I could peg it it seemed by just turning my air up marginally.
So for now, I'm going to run it like the summit, full loads, offgassed hot. I aim for 700 stovetop on the hottest part of my burn on the summit and will be looking to do the same on the super now.
So this is going to take some figuring out. My initial load, the stove top just in front of and to the right of the collar has hit 550 on a small load, air is cut way back and secondaries are present. Once this is burned down I'm going to load it to the gills and let it get a little nasty hot I think.
I guess just keep monitoring the temps as best I can and watch the cap, maybe daily for a bit?
I guess just keep monitoring the temps as best I can and watch the cap, maybe daily for a bit?
Is this the one where you just used the adhesive on the gasket to hold it in? If so, I would reseat it in gasket adhesive or high-temp RTV. The theory being there may be leakage around it.
Yes I didn't use any extra sealant on the gasket. But I looked it over pretty closely today. It has the nice knife edge all the way around and the door is firm but not overly to latch. Also wouldn't air leakage at the door cause me to run hot if anything?
Another couple of things worth noting I think.
1. I run the fan pretty well constantly and wondering if that has made it harder for me to maintain a robust secondary combustion? The secondaries seem 'lazy' compared to my summit, which has no blower
2. The baffle itself doesn't lay perfectly flat along the side rails. It does at the back and seals well with a gasket on the secondary air feed. But the baffle itself is warped slightly along the sides where it sits on the rails. The rails themselves are perfectly flat. Also my insulating blanket on top of the baffle is marginal. It's there but seems kind of flat and doesn't hang over the edges to meet up with the insulation on the side rails. Makes me wonder if the baffle itself could be shot. Damaged or rotted inside? I've never pulled one right apart if it's possible? The baffle itself has some warping. Maybe better just to replace it? I've got plenty of wiggle room for parts with this unit still. But from a lifetime of wrenching on my own autos and equipment I'm loath to just start replacing things.
I tried to get a photo showing the gap along the siderails.
Another couple of things worth noting I think.
1. I run the fan pretty well constantly and wondering if that has made it harder for me to maintain a robust secondary combustion? The secondaries seem 'lazy' compared to my summit, which has no blower
2. The baffle itself doesn't lay perfectly flat along the side rails. It does at the back and seals well with a gasket on the secondary air feed. But the baffle itself is warped slightly along the sides where it sits on the rails. The rails themselves are perfectly flat. Also my insulating blanket on top of the baffle is marginal. It's there but seems kind of flat and doesn't hang over the edges to meet up with the insulation on the side rails. Makes me wonder if the baffle itself could be shot. Damaged or rotted inside? I've never pulled one right apart if it's possible? The baffle itself has some warping. Maybe better just to replace it? I've got plenty of wiggle room for parts with this unit still. But from a lifetime of wrenching on my own autos and equipment I'm loath to just start replacing things.
I tried to get a photo showing the gap along the siderails.
Also. I really like to run the fan as it sure moves the heat out. And whenever I don't run it I find myself obsessing over my mantle clearance/temp. With the fan on the mantle stays relatively cool.
As an example I just ran for maybe twenty minutes without the fan and the hottest point on the underside of the mantle I could find was 154. Cooking. I ran the fan for one minute and it dropped to 123. Now I know I can't rely on the fan as a safety device but I guess I have been. I turned the fan off again for about five minutes and it's jumped to 145. I'm running about 500-550 stovetop right now.
I find it hard to believe that .5 of an inch outside of clearance can allow a surface to heat up like that? I guess regardless of my other issue I'm feeling like I should put up a shield.
As an example I just ran for maybe twenty minutes without the fan and the hottest point on the underside of the mantle I could find was 154. Cooking. I ran the fan for one minute and it dropped to 123. Now I know I can't rely on the fan as a safety device but I guess I have been. I turned the fan off again for about five minutes and it's jumped to 145. I'm running about 500-550 stovetop right now.
I find it hard to believe that .5 of an inch outside of clearance can allow a surface to heat up like that? I guess regardless of my other issue I'm feeling like I should put up a shield.
I only turn on the blower once the stove is hot. It does affect the burn and stove top temp. Are the side insulation pieces that seal the rails to the side of the baffle in good shape? Stove top temp with a full load should reach more like 650F with the blower off, 550F with the blower on.
Yes the side rails and their insulation looked very new as if they were replaced possibly? The top insulation was kind of ratty seeming in comparison. And the side rails are dead straight whereas the baffle has some warpage to it for certain.
I am still on the same load and am just starting to drop down from 500-600 stovetop to about 400-450 now and the stove is basically coalls. My air is just under half as I ran this load more aggressively to get those kind of temps. I've had the blower running the whole time. Been out looking after the equines.
So possibly if I want to run the blower I'm going to have to run a little more aggressively than I have been. Compared with tonight I was burning much smaller loads at a much lower air setting. I will probably expirement a bit between using the fan and not and when I have time see just how hot that wood will get. So i can lay that to rest one way or the other. I always try to error on the side of caution. Espescially with fire.
I am still on the same load and am just starting to drop down from 500-600 stovetop to about 400-450 now and the stove is basically coalls. My air is just under half as I ran this load more aggressively to get those kind of temps. I've had the blower running the whole time. Been out looking after the equines.
So possibly if I want to run the blower I'm going to have to run a little more aggressively than I have been. Compared with tonight I was burning much smaller loads at a much lower air setting. I will probably expirement a bit between using the fan and not and when I have time see just how hot that wood will get. So i can lay that to rest one way or the other. I always try to error on the side of caution. Espescially with fire.
I think now from having moved the thermometer I wasn't getting hot enough. Today I ran it all day and kept a pretty close eye on it. I also left the blower off all day. I'm sure I can it up to 600+ pretty easily and it's held 500+for a long time. I've run it just like I do my summit, which has been running all day now too, full loads and hot and it's performing very similarly. Very similar on the air settings from closed right off to bumped open just a bit. I've only had any smoke out of either just briefly on reload. I'm thinking I may have just smouldered myself up a mess to cause my creosote issue.
On another note, with the fan off all day I recorded a max temp of 160 on the hottest part of the underside of the mantle. I'll keep watching it. I plan to run a hot load through this evening and then setup for overnight burns, hopefully on both stoves.
On another note, with the fan off all day I recorded a max temp of 160 on the hottest part of the underside of the mantle. I'll keep watching it. I plan to run a hot load through this evening and then setup for overnight burns, hopefully on both stoves.
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