Pellet boiler

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Flem

Member
Dec 12, 2009
131
Western MD
Thinking about replacing my oil burner with a pellet boiler. I've got hot water baseboard heat and also use the boiler to heat my domestic water. Questions I have are:
1) Will the pellet boiler save me a fair amount over oil?
2) Pros or cons?
3) Approximate price to heat about 2,400 square feet?
4) Recommended brands?
Thanks!
 
Flem said:
Thinking about replacing my oil burner with a pellet boiler. I've got hot water baseboard heat and also use the boiler to heat my domestic water. Questions I have are:
Bias warning - I'm a cordwood fan, and don't see a lot of value in pellets, they have never made it onto my personal "radar" as a viable alternative...

1) Will the pellet boiler save me a fair amount over oil?
They may save you some, but not a huge amount - pellet prices tend to track fossil prices pretty much, probably because they use so much fossil fuel in their production and transport... It will also depend on how good you are at shopping around for good prices, and purchasing during the off season. If you do last minute shopping, you might end up paying more per BTU than oil...

2) Pros or cons?
Pro - convenience - any kind of wood burning is going to be more work than dino-squeezings, but pellets are about as easy as it gets - no cordwood prep, less hauling and stacking, etc.
Con - Price, will be much more expensive than cordwood, even CSD. Fuel availablity - A pellet burner is limited to a very specific type and form factor for fuel, with limited sources of supply - (Look in the yellow pages, compare the number of fuel oil dealers to pellet dealers...) In the past there have been severe pellet shortages due to pellet plant fires, or transportation issues - I don't see anything to absolutely keep that from happening again - a cordwood boiler can run on a lot more fuels, which are essentially local sourced (And if desperate, you could burn an awful lot of things we tell you never to burn...)
Mechanical complexity - A pellet burner has a lot more complex moving parts that all have to work well to make heat - your oil burner is simple in comparison. My stove has almost no moving parts, and I could fake those if I had to. A cordwood boiler is more complex, but still pretty simple - our favorite gasifiers just have a bunch of fans and some control circuits.

3) Approximate price to heat about 2,400 square feet?
No real data - haven't considered the choice, so haven't looked into it.

4) Recommended brands?
Thanks!
Again, no real solid data - I've seen Harman and Traeger / Pinnacle mentioned a bit, and I know that EKO and BioHeat make pellet units, but again I haven't looked enough to make any recommendations.

Gooserider
 
I have a Harman PB105 pellet boiler and I love it. The only weak link is its autoignite system. However, if you by a new one they have upgraded that function and I hear it works well.

Pellets will save you money over oil, but how much depends on your local oil and pellet prices.

If you're going to use wood for your primary heat pellets are the way to go. I can fill my hopper and go a couple of days without filling it again in 20F weather and if you get the 1500 pound hopper option you could go a couple of weeks before refilling. Try that with cord wood.

As far as cord wood being cheaper than pellets that depends on whether you have your own wood lot or not. Right now in my area if I had to buy split wood I would have to pay $250 P/Cord. I can pick up pellets for $250 P/Ton and a ton of pellets on average are equal to 1 and 1/2 cord of wood so pellets are cheaper in this case.
 
Andrew Churchill said:
I have a Harman PB105 pellet boiler and I love it... if you get the 1500 pound hopper option you could go a couple of weeks before refilling. .

It turns out that the 1500 lb hopper is a mixed blessing. It gives you the sense that the boiler will run unattended for an extended period, but I have found that to be untrue, Yes, you can go a good while between refilling the big hopper, but the boiler itself still needs frequent attention in the form of scraping the burnpot and working the pull-rods that scrape the boiler tubes. The big hopper really was an afterthought - when the boiler was designed Harman assumed that the hopper on the boiler itself would need to be refilled every day or two, and so it would be logical at the same time to performing the cleaning. Without the need of filling the small hopper, it's easy to let a week go by without attending to the cleaning, and then the efficiency drops, the burnpot builds up carbon deposits - and before long you get a three-blink status signal, partially burnt pellets in the ash pan & smoke from the pipe. At least that's been my experience.
 
I think the 1500 lb hopper is a great idea but very pricey. I would love to have one though, just so I could load it and then forget about pellet loading for a while. Ideally, I would love to have a pellet bin that could hold an entire seasons worth but I have no place to put one nor does anyone deliver loose pellets down this way. I typically burn Lignetics pellets and find them quite clean burning but I still scrape the hopper and heat exchanger tubes weekly. Although I've never burned more than 4 bags in one day, I can see someone living in upstate New York, along the Canadian border, burning all of 4 if not 5 bags a day. Anyway, I think if common sense prevails it could make a nice little setup.

Andrew, I seem to remember you saying that you get bulk delivery up you way? I think you get pellets delivered out of Canada. If I am correct, are they the LG brand? If so, what do you think of them? My apoligies if I am thinking of another person.
 
Flem said:
Thinking about replacing my oil burner with a pellet boiler. I've got hot water baseboard heat and also use the boiler to heat my domestic water. Questions I have are:
1) Will the pellet boiler save me a fair amount over oil?
2) Pros or cons?
3) Approximate price to heat about 2,400 square feet?
4) Recommended brands?
Thanks!
2 out of 4 of your questions concern price. I was considering a coal burning boiler before my Atmos gasser. I can get free wood by the side of the road here so it would have been difficult for me to pay for coal. If you can get free wood you might want to reconsider as the Moderator posted. Yes, log wood is not as convenient, you don't feel as bad about throwing free wood into your boiler as another 2 or 3 bags of $3.00 ? pellets though, Randy
 
Centurion,

I had 11 tons of Energex softwood pellets delivered in November. They are burning great! Last year I had Energex's hardwood pellets and I didn't have any problems. The only thing I noticed with the hardwood pellets is I would get clinkers and the ash was very gritty.

The softwood ash is very light and powdery and no clinkers.

I'm using a 5 gallon pail to scoop the pellets out of my bin and put them into the hopper. It's much faster and more convenient than opening a bag and pouring it into the hopper.
 
three dollar bags? try 5+ around here but I also like to support the local mills.
i shop and buy off season but it can't be a decision based only on price
3 bags per day most days...very comfortable and plenty of dhw
that $15 per day
daily attention with monthly cleaning
don't oversize the boiler for the btu's needed.
don't underestimate the effort to move 300 bags @ 40 lb each
visit someone with one and pay attention to the location, space needed, and the noise
can you imagine your spouse filling the hopper and removing ashes
I have a tarm 2.5 which is the only one I have any opinion about
"I should have done this years ago" is my 1st comment when asked
 
Froling as best pellet unit, bioheatusa are the US distributors.

The point of pellets is automation, so a large hopper adequate for bulk delivery would seem logically.

Current generation boilers require little maintenance.

Where I am the cost of cord wood and pellets is not that different, big difference is the cost of the initial install.
 
Como said:
Current generation boilers require little maintenance.

Well, that may be true of the $10,000+ units, but decidedly not so with the lower priced Harman PB105. This is not only my personal experience, but also what at least one candid dealer (not my dealer) freely admits.

Furthermore, a distinction needs to be made between bulk delivery of pellets, and automatic feeding of pellets. If you are scooping manually from the bulk bin as Andrew does, then you are there on a regular basis to attend to the burnpot and water tube scraping, which the Harman manual suggests is best done daily. With automatic auger feeding, another story altogether.
 
Andrew Churchill said:
I had 11 tons of Energex softwood pellets delivered in November. Last year I had Energex's hardwood pellets and I didn't have any problems.
I'm using a 5 gallon pail to scoop the pellets out of my bin and put them into the hopper.

Andrew

Would you mind sharing your source of bulk pellets? Name of the outfit & phone number?
I'm guessing that you are in northern VT, and although that info probably wouldn't help me here in the south, it could be of interest to my brother-in-law in Shelburne - and probably others on this forum.

Thanks

Steve
 
Steve Clay-Young said:
Como said:
Current generation boilers require little maintenance.

Well, that may be true of the $10,000+ units, but decidedly not so with the lower priced Harman PB105. This is not only my personal experience, but also what at least one candid dealer (not my dealer) freely admits.

Furthermore, a distinction needs to be made between bulk delivery of pellets, and automatic feeding of pellets. If you are scooping manually from the bulk bin as Andrew does, then you are there on a regular basis to attend to the burnpot and water tube scraping, which the Harman manual suggests is best done daily. With automatic auger feeding, another story altogether.

I was thinking of current generation boilers, Bioheat described the Froling and its like at 4th Generation.

But if you are going to do all that then my thought woud be to stay with cord wood.
 
according to our handy fuel calculator wheel:

$246 per cord for 20% moisture content mixed hardwood (20 MM BTU gross) burned in a 77% efficient wood boiler

would be the same cost as burning $218 per ton pellets (16.4 MM BTU gross) in an 83% efficient pellet boiler

for what its worth.....
 
I get my bulk pellets from Clarke et Fils out of Sherbrooke Quebec. Phone number 819-562-9444
 
This office burns in the CB pellet boiler. That thing is. . .well, it's a POS. The welder and/or plumber was here every week the first year. This year an employee spends half his time baby sitting it. No Surprise . . .

1)It's a CB, afterall
and
2)The rush to produce produces rushed results (aka,, R&D at the consumers' cost)
 
I wouldn't burn pellets because I did once about five years ago and felt trapped by the suppliers. There are more suppliers now so I think the competition and increased capacity of the suppliers has moderated the price swings. I went back to cord wood and am now commited and I'm happy with it.
If I were going to install a pellet boiler I would take a close look at the Wood-pecker line. I was given a demonstration last year and I was quite impressed. Very automated which means alot of mechanicals and electronics. But if it works anywhere near what their propaganda states, it would be great.
 
Fred61 said:
If I were going to install a pellet boiler I would take a close look at the Wood-pecker line. I was given a demonstration last year and I was quite impressed. Very automated which means alot of mechanicals and electronics. But if it works anywhere near what their propaganda states, it would be great.

Again, this is the $12,000+ category. How long would it take to amortize that kind of investment? How many people can come up with that kind of money?

On the other hand, in my experience, the $6000 Harman is a work in progress, and takes a LOT of tending. But I also hear that complaint from my brother-in-law regarding Tarms from 5-6 years ago. Have they evolved significantly in the last few years?

Somehow it seems strange to me that a dependable, reasonably low maintenance pellet boiler can't by now be produced in this country (or Canada) for something like $5000.

Steve
 
My PB105 is very reliable as long as it is in the manual mode and in the winter the manual mode is just as efficient as the auto ignite mode.

I shut the PB down once a month and scrape the burn pot. Other than that I just fill the hopper once a day and pull the heat exchanger tube scrapers a couple of times a week.

Since I fired the boiler up in mid October it hasn't shut down on me once and I've only spent about an hour total on maintenance so far this season.
 
Steve Clay-Young said:
Fred61 said:
If I were going to install a pellet boiler I would take a close look at the Wood-pecker line. I was given a demonstration last year and I was quite impressed. Very automated which means alot of mechanicals and electronics. But if it works anywhere near what their propaganda states, it would be great.

Again, this is the $12,000+ category. How long would it take to amortize that kind of investment? How many people can come up with that kind of money?

Steve

I think that biomass pellets are going to be an emerging market here in the states over the coming decade. If global energy prices continue on an upward trend, more and more people will look to domestic sources for energy, and will accept longer periods of time for return on their investments in home heating equipment if for no other reason than to remove themselves from the world stage of volatile energy prices. While wood boilers and stoves offer opportunities for nearly free energy, (until the gov't. decides to tax the Btu's you produce off of your own property) high end pellet boilers offer efficiency, automation, and ease of use much like a fossil fuel boiler... which will undoubtedly appeal to the more urban factions of society where burning chunk wood is not an option.

It's true that in some parts of the country pellets are in high demand, and sometimes expensive and hard to get... and yes they do seem to track the barrel price of oil fairly close... that having been said, they are almost always cheaper per Btu than oil or electricity. As competition increases in the marketplace, and the volume of pellets required to satisfy consumer demand balances with what will support the infrastructure to produce them, their prices should stabilize. That is of course until corporate america gets ahold of it and turns the pellet industry into 'Big Pellet' right alongside 'Big Oil' :roll:


The bottom line? Pellets are good... so is wood. Individuals will decide what makes the most sense to them... the collective decisions of individuals will steer the market. As much as we all like to pontificate... No one has a crystal ball, though I'd wager that pellets make pretty good sense moving forward.

cheers
 
Piker, They sure need to come down around here. I was at Northern looking at log splitters & saw $4.99 a bag pellets ON SALE from $5.99 for 40 lbs. I wonder what chip boilers will be in the future. That may be the way to go, Randy
 
Singed Eyebrows said:
Piker, They sure need to come down around here. I was at Northern looking at log splitters & saw $4.99 a bag pellets ON SALE from $5.99 for 40 lbs. I wonder what chip boilers will be in the future. That may be the way to go, Randy

That's $250 per ton on sale from $300... pretty high for sure. At $300/ton, you would have to be paying more than $2.40 per gallon for oil and maybe $.07 or more per kwh of electricity for that to make financial sense. I don't know what those commodities are in your neck of the woods, but I bet you would still save a few dollars on your heating bill by burning pellets... getting a return on the investment of a pellet boiler in a 'short' period of time, well, no... probably not, not with electricity and oil prices where they are at today. But I think that mindset is what's going to change. Right now, most folks look at wood and pellet fuel as something that has to give them "free heat" in "X" amount of time or it doesn't make sense to them. I think down the road, people will recognize pellet fuels as a more mainstream fuel source... a fuel source that is domestic, possibly even local, clean, hassle free, and relatively inexpensive in comparison to other commodities. With the lambda controls and automatic features of the new equipment, the hassle of burning pellets is almost a non-issue.

Wood chips will also play a role, but I see them as a more industrial fuel source. They would still have to be dried and processed into uniform chip size to work in residential applications, thereby increasing their cost probably closer to that of pellets. In industrial applications, large boilers can utilize a wider range of chunk size, and also moisture contents.

just my $.02 anyways.

cheers
 
I BURN STOKER COAL AND VERY HAPPY WITH IT, MY WIFE WAS WOORIED ABOUT BLACK SMOKE BUT I GET NO SMOKE AT BURN AND JUST A LITTLE WHTE SMOKE AT IDLE AND THAT DEPENDS ON THE QUALITY OF COAL I BURN
 

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Andrew Churchill said:
My PB105 is very reliable as long as it is in the manual mode and in the winter the manual mode is just as efficient as the auto ignite mode.

I shut the PB down once a month and scrape the burn pot. Other than that I just fill the hopper once a day and pull the heat exchanger tube scrapers a couple of times a week.

Since I fired the boiler up in mid October it hasn't shut down on me once and I've only spent about an hour total on maintenance so far this season.

Andrew

It's good to know that such low maintenance is possible. Unfortunately, my experience with the PB105 has been utterly different. Although I keep suggesting to the dealer that there is a lingering factory defect with the boiler, he insists that it is OK, and the sole issue is finding the proper setting for the feed rate.

Last winter, the first season, was pretty much a total loss. The boiler would not auto-ignite, and if it was manually lit, it would put out unbearable smoke & odor. After the dealer exhausted every trick he knew, finally a factory service person showed up in the spring, and got it to ignite on its own, although there didn't appear to be any one thing that he found to account for the problem. At that point, I began to have enough confidence to go ahead & install the 1500 lb aux. hopper (which actually I think is fairly priced, contrary to an earlier posters comment).

Come this season, things looked pretty promising in the fall & early part of the winter, which was uncommonly warm. But since the cold really arrived, the aggravation has been constant. To his credit, the dealer has been by a couple of times to check it out, but he insists that all is OK with the boiler and the installation, and his only suggestion now is to keep turning the feed rate down. I was counting on only weekly attention to the boiler, as it is located at my elderly mother-in-law's house, and I am there just once a week to look after the needs of the place - and the dealer had assured me that all that would be required would be to fill up the bulk hopper and give a couple of pulls on the water tube scrapers. He claimed that scraping the burnpot wouldn't be required more than once or twice a season.

Well, what has happened is that in about 5 days of running unattended, carbon deposits build up in the burnpot, flyash accumulates on the water tubes, partially burnt pellets appear in the ashpan, visible smoke comes out the exhaust, and then a 3 blink error message. Initially the feed rate was set at 6 at the recommendation of the dealer, then 5, 4, and now 3. Lowering the feedrate does seem to be reducing the problem, but also of course the heat output. At the present point, I am trying weekly operation of the tube scrapers, weekly opening of the hopper on the boiler to thoroughly scrape the burnpot, biweekly vacuuming of the firebox, and monthly sweeping of the exhaust pipe. Messy & time consuming - and not even sure yet of whether that will do it.

It may be that we are just asking more of the boiler that it is capable of delivering, but the dealer has continued to claim that it should be able to do the job, and at the same time deny that there might be any manufacturing defect lingering. Yes it was a difficult path for the exhaust, the length of which is at the limit of what the manual says is acceptable, but the dealer has repeatedly measured the draft and says that it is within spec, if not ideal. Yes, it is a large heating load, and we need to be burning at a rate of something like 12 tons a season, but the dealer says he has other customers who are doing that without difficulty. Burning Northern and New England hardwood pellets up to this point, thinking of trying softwood next time.

Have any thoughts? Could the frequency of pulling the tube scrapers possible be the critical factor? I don't think that auto/manual ignition is relevant, since the load is such that the fire never goes out, but maybe? Why do you mention manual ignition as being significant?

Steve
 
outdoorstokerboilersofky.com said:
I BURN STOKER COAL AND VERY HAPPY WITH IT...

In the 90's I burnt anthracite for a few years, and it sure put out the heat! Only smoked on startup, then a clear exhaust as you describe. However, even if it is cheaper, coal is as much a fossil fuel as oil or gas - not carbon-neutral like chunk wood or pellets. But that was not what stopped me from burning it - I was not as carbon-conscious then - it was the enormous amount of ash generated, and the difficulty of disposing of it.

Steve
 
Steve,

I have issues with the auto ignite feature working reliably on my PB105. That's why I mention it's very reliable as long as it's running in the manual mode.

Are you using the outdoor air kit?
 
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