I am looking at purchasing a Harmon PF100 pellet furnace. I currently have a Propane furnace and I go through 1350 gallons of propane a year. I do use propane to heat my water also. I have a 2300 sq. ft home that is two stories. Would this be a good unit for my home and should I go with a 1450 scfm blower or stay with the 1000. Also, does anyone have an idea how many tons I will go through. I am looking at $5500 installed to put it in, $3500 for the unit.
Pellet Furnace or Propane
- Thread starter mikemike
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
If you are using your existing duct work I suggest matching the CFM of your propane furnace's blower. If you CFM is too low you may not be able to overcome the resistance of your duct work to get the same air distribution. If the CFM is higher you might get some extra noise you don't like.
In addition to the CFM issue, how do you know this system will meet your dwelling's design temp? Presumably some HVAC pro did that when installing your furnace, but I am curious what was done to spec out this system.
In addition to the CFM issue, how do you know this system will meet your dwelling's design temp? Presumably some HVAC pro did that when installing your furnace, but I am curious what was done to spec out this system.
whippingwater
New Member
Here's a fuel calculator http://www.woodboilers.com/fuel-calculator.aspx For what i paid for pellets, propane would need to be a buck a gallon to break even and I don't see that price ever happening again.
If you want total comfort and control go with the furnace instead of a space heater. The guy I get my pellets from has 2 pf100's, one in the house and another in his shop and his son has one too. They seem to love them.
If you want total comfort and control go with the furnace instead of a space heater. The guy I get my pellets from has 2 pf100's, one in the house and another in his shop and his son has one too. They seem to love them.
j00fek
Feeling the Heat
not to kill the harmon boiler, there have been many problems i have read about them on this board.
i would consider looking into other options, tarm,central boilers
saw a new wood pecker model to just come to the us from ireland
i would consider looking into other options, tarm,central boilers
saw a new wood pecker model to just come to the us from ireland
whippingwater
New Member
Just a couple of thoughts:
Does a pellet furnace qualify as a "permanent" heat source in a bank's eyes? Would it effect your mortgage or someone who would potentially want to buy the house? You limit you potential market of buyers who would want such a devise as the main heat source.
That's A LOT of propane. I realize there are many factors that determine total energy usage. My house is 2500sf with many large windows and little protection from northern NY winds. I use propane for 100,000 btu forced air furnace, hot water, range/oven (commercial style 110,000 but total) and clothes dryer. My average is around 900 gal/year.
Does a pellet furnace qualify as a "permanent" heat source in a bank's eyes? Would it effect your mortgage or someone who would potentially want to buy the house? You limit you potential market of buyers who would want such a devise as the main heat source.
That's A LOT of propane. I realize there are many factors that determine total energy usage. My house is 2500sf with many large windows and little protection from northern NY winds. I use propane for 100,000 btu forced air furnace, hot water, range/oven (commercial style 110,000 but total) and clothes dryer. My average is around 900 gal/year.
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
Tax Incentives
I think a biofuel furnace qaulifies for federal tax deduction and maybe a state(check your state) tax deduction as well.
Biofuel furnace's will burn pellets just as well as a pellet furnace. Some states don't consider a pellet furnace as biofuel.
Check this link.
http://www.dsireusa.org/
jay
I think a biofuel furnace qaulifies for federal tax deduction and maybe a state(check your state) tax deduction as well.
Biofuel furnace's will burn pellets just as well as a pellet furnace. Some states don't consider a pellet furnace as biofuel.
Check this link.
http://www.dsireusa.org/
jay
hossthehermit
Minister of Fire
mikemike said:
Have you looked at the St. Croix Revolution? Installed mine this fall, been the only heat I've used since then.
exoilburner
Feeling the Heat
mikemike said:
I installed a PF100 last April and have been pleased with the heat.
The furnace, like most pellet burning appliances, will require more attention, maintenance, and learning than your propane furnace. This site is a life saver to learn and ask questions.
I have enjoyed learning and tinkering with my PF100.
I like having a back-up heat source and dual fuel choices. I just got a great deal on furnace oil ($1.94/gal) and filled up.
One thing you might look into is the availability of pellets and corn in your area. Have there been shortages?
The PF100 is a biomass furnace except it is not avertised to burn corn. But switchgrass pellets and cheap high ash pellets burn good from what I have read. If corn is more available maybe a multifuel furnace or a corn burner would be a better choice.
Do you have covered pellet storage space. One ton of pellets sits on a pallet 3.5ft x 4ft x 3.8ft high.
Good luck with your decision. If you have any PF100 specific questions I'd be glad to pass on what I have learned.
I would definitely suggest doing more research before you buy a PF100. We have had one for 5 years and the first year was fine. Since them we have changed the burnpot about a year ago and my husband just told me tonight that there is about a 1" hole in it again. We have changed the igniter, we have had draft problems, lighting problems, problems with pellets falling into the ash container before they are burned. My husband is always cleaning it, which is to be expected, but our problems are not due to poor maintenance. Our retailer has been very sympathetic and has even brought out the sales rep for Harmon, who had to phone the factory to try to solve the lighting problems, but to no avail. It is still hit and miss. We woke up this morning to a cold house because it went off during the night. We have a propane furnace as a back up, otherwise we would be in dire straights. If you put in a Harmon PF100, make sure you have another reliable source of heat. We also have a fireplace insert in our main living area which works great. We have experimented with changing the amount of draft and sometimes we think we have found the answer and then it starts to malfunction again.
mikemike said:
I'm just finishing my first winter with my PF100 and can fill you in on all the trials and tribulations. I live just North of International Falls, Minnesota in Canada. We've had a pretty cold winter this year and so far from early October to now I've gone thru 4 and 1/4 tons of pellets. I was gone for two weeks over Christmas and heated with electric, otherwise its been exclusively pellets. If I factor in the two weeks I was gone I'd be close to 5 tons. This has cost me less than half what heating oil has cost me in previous (not as cold) winters. Overall, I'm happy with the furnace. It is more work than a propane , oil, electric, or geothermal unit would be (cleaning), but I don't mind that part of it. I'd go with the lower volume blower. I got the three speed blower but never run it above its slowest speed. The lower speed of air movement thru the heat exchanger seems to work well picking up the heat. I've got a spread sheet I developed that shows pellet use versus temp for the whole winter if you are interested.
cold in BC said:
I know what you mean about the burnpot. Seems to be a weak area in the stove. Mine is buckling above the igniter and one of the holes is about double size in comparison to the others around it. How much does a replacement cost and did you put it in yourself? Same for the igniter, how much? Or did you get them under warranty? Have you benn having 5 and 6 blink probs? I was after running my first 3 tons thru, but I think I've resolved this issue. Let me know and I'll describe what I did. Stay warm
exoilburner
Feeling the Heat
ex-oil slave,
I had to replace my burn pot after about 8 months use. It has a good warranty so the dealer replaced it. No charge.
I tried to find out something about burnpot life on another forum but no one came up with a number.
Pics show the old one and the new one. Does the old one look like yours?
I had to replace my burn pot after about 8 months use. It has a good warranty so the dealer replaced it. No charge.
I tried to find out something about burnpot life on another forum but no one came up with a number.
Pics show the old one and the new one. Does the old one look like yours?
yea, exoil....that burnpot's fried. Generally this happens at the high end of the furnace use spectrum....we've replaced several with silver dollar-sized holes in them, but they are used in commercial applications, and these things are literally running flat out! Also, make sure you check the baffle plates on the sidewall directly across from the burn pot.....they can warp too, as well as get perforated!
Nice pics Exoilburner. Yeah, that looks like the way mine is heading. Not there yet but one more season and I will be. I have been running mine "at the high end of the furnace use spectrum" as Lousyweather so eloquently put it. In December and January, we had 42 days with temps below -20, 2 below -30, and 3 below -40. So, yeah, the stove was working hard. The only difference I can see is that mine has a ridge forming just above where the holes are in your pics. It's almost as if the heat from the burning pellets has softened the floor of the burnpot causing it to sag a little in the area where the holes form. It looks like the burnpot was removed from the inside of the firebox. I see four bolts sticking out of the side of the firebox where it gets mounted. Is it just a simple matter of removing four nuts from the inside then dropping it down? Does the burn pot gasket get changed too or can it be reused? Is the new burnpot made from stainless steel? You say you changed it out after 8 months. Have you had to do it again? How long has it been? How many bags of pellets do you go thru in a winter? Thanking you in advance for your replies.
Sounds like a faulty design and something Harman needs to address.
To the OP,
I would suggest thoroughly thinking this through. How long are you going to own this home? Most potential buyers will want a 'set and leave it' central heating system. Not only that, you will too when you have to leave the house for a period of time.
Pellet pricing has been all over the road in recent years and availability has been spotty as well... not to mention there's work involved with burning pellets. I don't think I'd ever consider installing a central pellet heating system in my house in lue of a traditional maintenance free system. If you do want to burn pellets, I'd suggest going with one or two stoves in your main living area and have a tradition central heating system for your 'backup' or install an add on pellet furnace which can operate next to a traditional furnace. But you should strongly consider having a traditional fuel system in place.
You burn about 125,550,000 BTU in your propane furnace now. Assuming the efficiencies of your existing propane system and the pellet furnace are about the same, you would need approximately 7.6 tons of wood pellets to equal this same amount of heat. If you were heating with a pellet stove(s), you'd use a little less since you wouldn't have the losses associated with central heating systems (maybe 5 to 6 tons?).
With that said, I'd strongly consider something other than pellets if the goal is to save money. Cord wood is far cheaper, so a wood boiler or even stove(s) might be a consideration. Coal is also something to consider if you can get it in your area. Coal burns hotter and longer than wood and is overall easier to deal with IMO. Coal can be burnt in central heating systems as well as stoves. There are also several coal stoves on the market that operate exactly like a pellet stove, but they burn coal in the hopper instead of wood pellets.
To the OP,
I would suggest thoroughly thinking this through. How long are you going to own this home? Most potential buyers will want a 'set and leave it' central heating system. Not only that, you will too when you have to leave the house for a period of time.
Pellet pricing has been all over the road in recent years and availability has been spotty as well... not to mention there's work involved with burning pellets. I don't think I'd ever consider installing a central pellet heating system in my house in lue of a traditional maintenance free system. If you do want to burn pellets, I'd suggest going with one or two stoves in your main living area and have a tradition central heating system for your 'backup' or install an add on pellet furnace which can operate next to a traditional furnace. But you should strongly consider having a traditional fuel system in place.
You burn about 125,550,000 BTU in your propane furnace now. Assuming the efficiencies of your existing propane system and the pellet furnace are about the same, you would need approximately 7.6 tons of wood pellets to equal this same amount of heat. If you were heating with a pellet stove(s), you'd use a little less since you wouldn't have the losses associated with central heating systems (maybe 5 to 6 tons?).
With that said, I'd strongly consider something other than pellets if the goal is to save money. Cord wood is far cheaper, so a wood boiler or even stove(s) might be a consideration. Coal is also something to consider if you can get it in your area. Coal burns hotter and longer than wood and is overall easier to deal with IMO. Coal can be burnt in central heating systems as well as stoves. There are also several coal stoves on the market that operate exactly like a pellet stove, but they burn coal in the hopper instead of wood pellets.
exoilburner
Feeling the Heat
Lousyweather,
Thanks for the follow-up info. Good to know. My baffle plates look new except for the fly ash so no warping or pitting.
ex-oil slave,
Yep "flat out" is the word for it. Large flames but they don't look bad and sure not wimpy. The large area hot air duct on the furnace would require a lot of BTU from the fire box. I knew when I purchase the PF100 that I'd loose some efficiency, but all the rooms in my house are all sooo comfortable and I am able to balance the temperature in them any way I want. The trade-off for comfort was definitely worth putting in a furnace rather than a stove.
Yes the burn pot was removed from inside the fire box 4 nuts to remove. The service tech needed to use a combo wrench or a ratchet with a u-joint and deep-well socket on the 2 nuts on the far of the burn-pot. Can't see those 2 so it's a feel thing. He used a bucket to set the burn-pot on. DON'T HANG THE BURN-POT FROM THE IGNITER WIRES OR STRESS THE WIRES. The igniter was removed with the 2 bolts on the fire pot located above the burn-pot access plate. Remember which way the igniter was mounted; it can be put in 180 out and cause ignition problems. The service tech did not replace the burn-pot gasket; I asked, he said it did not need to be replaced. He is a Harmon trained repair tech. When we were firing the furnace up I checked the gap between the fire-box and the furnace cabinet with a flash-light and there was no smoke leaking from the burn-pot mounting surface.
I did a small modification to the furnace to be able to remove the fire-box door. That made it easier to work on the burn-pot
The new pot looked like stainless steel and is only slightly magnetic. So I would guess it is some grade of stainless with a magnetic alloy.
I had burned about 4 Tons since it was new (March 08) when the pics were taken. Am up to about 5 1/2 tons now with no signs of pot deterioration but that's only 1 1/2 Tons on the new pot. This is the only time the pot has been changed. Still don't know what the cause is. Will watch it.
Thanks for the follow-up info. Good to know. My baffle plates look new except for the fly ash so no warping or pitting.
ex-oil slave,
Yep "flat out" is the word for it. Large flames but they don't look bad and sure not wimpy. The large area hot air duct on the furnace would require a lot of BTU from the fire box. I knew when I purchase the PF100 that I'd loose some efficiency, but all the rooms in my house are all sooo comfortable and I am able to balance the temperature in them any way I want. The trade-off for comfort was definitely worth putting in a furnace rather than a stove.
Yes the burn pot was removed from inside the fire box 4 nuts to remove. The service tech needed to use a combo wrench or a ratchet with a u-joint and deep-well socket on the 2 nuts on the far of the burn-pot. Can't see those 2 so it's a feel thing. He used a bucket to set the burn-pot on. DON'T HANG THE BURN-POT FROM THE IGNITER WIRES OR STRESS THE WIRES. The igniter was removed with the 2 bolts on the fire pot located above the burn-pot access plate. Remember which way the igniter was mounted; it can be put in 180 out and cause ignition problems. The service tech did not replace the burn-pot gasket; I asked, he said it did not need to be replaced. He is a Harmon trained repair tech. When we were firing the furnace up I checked the gap between the fire-box and the furnace cabinet with a flash-light and there was no smoke leaking from the burn-pot mounting surface.
I did a small modification to the furnace to be able to remove the fire-box door. That made it easier to work on the burn-pot
The new pot looked like stainless steel and is only slightly magnetic. So I would guess it is some grade of stainless with a magnetic alloy.
I had burned about 4 Tons since it was new (March 08) when the pics were taken. Am up to about 5 1/2 tons now with no signs of pot deterioration but that's only 1 1/2 Tons on the new pot. This is the only time the pot has been changed. Still don't know what the cause is. Will watch it.
- Status
Similar threads
