pellet or wood?

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mtnhiker70

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Jan 5, 2011
65
RI
We recently bought a new house. It's less than 10 yrs old and in a rural area of MA, prone to lots of snow. The house is 2,800 sf, and has 2 fireplaces with one chimney, 2 flues. The fireplace is in the cathedral living rm on the 1st floor (see pic). The 2nd fireplace is beneath it, in the (walk-out, unfinished, but insulated) basement.

The house has a large 2-story foyer. The master suite is on the opposite side of the house from the fireplace, over the garage. The 1st floor has 9' ceilings. The 2nd floor has 8' ceilings, and vaulted 10' ceilings in the master.

The house has a hydro-air oil heating system. It's is rather cold & used a 1/4 tank of oil less thsn 10 days! I'm looking for a cheap heating supplement. I like the idea of pellets, but pellets were $6/bag here this winter and oil was $2.30. We have access to some free wood from our land, but it's off- site and we don't have a truck.

I'm researching wood & pellet burning inserts. I definitely need something that would work when the power is out (we get storms).

We are in our 40s, and I'm not enthused about the idea of cutting & hauling wood in, though it's easily available.

And right now, I'm the only person home during the day to keep a fire going. I can't lift more than 40#. The garage is slightly over-sized, so we could carve out a 4'x6' area for fuel storage, but the garage is at the opposite side of the house.

In addition to the masonry fireplaces, there is one exterior corner in the dining/kitchen where we could put a pellet stove. See pic. Im also open to the idea of buying a pellet stove AND an insert (if I can do it affordably). I think my budget for an install this summer wiuld be $3500-ish.

We used the fireplace for the first time last night - it wasn't warm & smoke detectors went off. :( Needs a cleaning I think.

Any advice would be appreciated.
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I think my budget for an install this summer wiuld be $3500-ish.
I am sure you could do a pellet stove in to corner for under $3500 an insert and liner in the fire place would be pushing it to be under $3500 But you could probably make it
 
What is a 'hydro-air' heating system? Don't think I've heard that one before.

Forced air or hydronic (hot water?)

Does it have ducts, or radiators?

With a walk-out basement and a chimney connection down there (I think? Or maybe with a bit of work?), I think I would also consider a central heating option - like an add-on furnace or a boiler.
 
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My BIL set up his place with hydro-air. It's a boiler system that delivers hot water to hydronic air handlers.
 
With 2800 sq ft to heat in cold New England you are going to need some firepower. Cathedral ceilings compound the problem quite a bit. The stove or insert is an area heater. I would put the heater in the area you will spend the most time in. In very cold weather it probably won't eliminate the need for the primary system to run, but it will make a notable dent in the heating bill and that area will be much more comfortable. An advantage of a wood stove and some inserts is that they are quieter than a pellet stove and often put out more heat.

Can you post a sketch of the floorplan? It doesn't have to be fancy, just show us the general layout of the main floor and location of the fireplace and include the ceiling height of the rooms.
 
With 2800 sq ft to heat in cold New England you are going to need some firepower. Cathedral ceilings compound the problem quite a bit. The stove or insert is an area heater. I would put the heater in the area you will spend the most time in. In very cold weather it probably won't eliminate the need for the primary system to run, but it will make a notable dent in the heating bill and that area will be much more comfortable. An advantage of a wood stove and some inserts is that they are quieter than a pellet stove and often put out more heat.

Can you post a sketch of the floorplan? It doesn't have to be fancy, just show us the general layout of the main floor and location of the fireplace and include the ceiling height of the rooms.
 
Heres my sketch. Living room is cathedral, the rest of the1st floor is 9' ceilings.

The opening in the cathedral living room us 7' wide & the opening into the formal dining room is 6' wide. The opening from the formal dining room to the 2-story foyer is 4' wide. The others are all 3' wide. HTH.
 

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Pellets are a lot of work too. Most people don't think about how many bags they will actually use. For your heating needs you would use at least a 40 lb bag a day. Can you lift a 40 lb bag up enough to fill a hopper? Do you have storage for a skid or two of pellet bags?

You could have somebody come out and evaluate the fireplace/chimney and get it operational. Get some wood together this spring and summer and use the fireplace next winter. See how you like it and go from there. Or maybe you could get a rear venting freestanding stove to bring out into the room.

The outside chimney will make draft an issue until you get the chimney lined and insulated.

Your cheapest option may be to use what you already have.
 
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I just meant he could do it to get a feel for wood burning.

For somebody new to get a couple years ahead on firewood, insulate and line a chimney, purchase a quality wood stove, and learn how to burn right in less then a years time is asking a lot.
 
What is a 'hydro-air' heating system? Don't think I've heard that one before.

Forced air or hydronic (hot water?)

Does it have ducts, or radiators?

With a walk-out basement and a chimney connection down there (I think? Or maybe with a bit of work?), I think I would also consider a central heating option - like an add-on furnace or a boiler.

Hydro-air is a boiler with copper pipes, heating air with air handler. So it's duct-work. And oddly enough the 2nd flr ducts are routed thru the attic? The registers are in the ceiling up stairs.
 
Heres my sketch. Living room is cathedral, the rest of the1st floor is 9' ceilings.

The opening in the cathedral living room us 7' wide & the opening into the formal dining room is 6' wide. The opening from the formal dining room to the 2-story foyer is 4' wide. The others are all 3' wide. HTH.
If it were me I would close off the living room in the dead of winter. Cathedral ceilings are heat traps. Then I would have a wood or pellet stove in either the parlor or the kitchen dining area. If closing off the LR is not an option then I would put as large an insert as possible in there with ceiling fans to help stir up the heat and I would still consider a stove in the parlor.

Pellet stoves are ok, more convenient and efficient, but they are not without caveats. A bag of pellets is 40# and you will be going through a bag a day in milder weather and 2 bags when it is very cold. Essentially a pellet stove is a mini wood furnace. It has the flame and sounds of a furnace. One nice benefit is that can be put on a digital thermostat. It's nice to have the stove come on, warming up the kitchen 30 minutes before you come down for coffee.
 
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I grew up with a fireplace & then a (cheap) wood stove. As a kid i did carry wood
in. It was dirty, and in our living room. :(
Not a fan... and I have allergies.

I just meant he could do it to get a feel for wood burning.

For somebody new to get a couple years ahead on firewood, insulate and line a chimney, purchase a quality wood stove, and learn how to burn right in less then a years time is asking a lot.
 
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You might want to investigate the possibility of a wood gasification add on boiler system for the basement. Pricy stuff but that's the route I would look into
Buy wood, hire a kid to haul it in the house if need be. It'll take much longer to recoup your investment but you'll be warm waiting for that day.
 
Since you have a large house and said house has tall ceilings you will use btu's galore. You have noticed that already.
Sounds like you really don't want to spend a considerable amount of time dealing with wood and therefore you might end up buying a lot of your wood which can be ok..I do that and still save huge money not using my heat pump or e-furance.

You don't want to be cold when the power goes out..that's understandable.

Here are my thoughts from what I have read in your post.

Buy a whole house generator first.
 
If it were me, I would put a boiler in - with a walkout basement and a central heating distribution system in place, seems a natural match.

Stoves, whether wood or pellet, are space heaters. Can't beat the comfort of central heating - it's exactly how warm you want it, where you want it.

Depending how you end up shaking down deciding on a fuel supply, you could add on either a wood or pellet boiler. There are some very nice very efficient pellet boilers available now if you're leaning to pellets. And there are also that could do either wood or pellet with a few minutes of changeover work. There are also pellet head options that you could swap out your oil burner for if your oil boiler is a candidate for. It does sound though like you will be providing quite a bit or fuel, not matter what the fuel is, if you're going through 1/4 tank of oil in 10 days - which would lean me to wood. That little tidbit = no easy cheapie answer to this one.

EDIT: Also, that mount of fuel use seems like a lot for 2800 sq.ft. of fairly new construction. I think I would also invest a bit in something like an energy audit - seems like some shortcomings in things as is from the get go.
 
If you want to explore boiler options and costs we have a boiler room forum here with some knowledgeable persons that can help you. I think for sure this will exceed a $3500 budget but it may be a more satisfying solution. If you choose to go pellet be sure to order a good quantity of good quality pellets early. There can be shortages by fall once the weather starts chilling out.
 
I really do want a fireplace to sit beside on winter nights. I haven't lived in a house with a working fireplace since I lived at home (25 yrs!).

I like this Harman insert. Its $$$ though. How much of the heating needs will it satisfy installed in the cathedral rm though? There's a ceiling fan at least...

http://m.harmanstoves.com/Products/300i-Wood-Insert.aspx WARM spot by the fire every night in winter.

I also like the Englander line up, but I don't see a big insert in their offerings. Their tall pellet stove with the 80# hopper looks good.
 
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Harmans are far from the easiest stoves to use they can be very tempermantal
 
I really do want a fireplace to sit beside on winter nights. I haven't lived in a house with a working fireplace since I lived at home (25 yrs!).

I like this Harman insert. Its $$$ though. How much of the heating needs will it satisfy installed in the cathedral rm though? There's a ceiling fan at least...

http://m.harmanstoves.com/Products/300i-Wood-Insert.aspxWARM spot by the fire every night in winter.

I also like the Englander line up, but I don't see a big insert in their offerings. Their tall pellet stove with the 80# hopper looks good.

Sitting by a pellet stove is nowhere like sitting by a fireplace ,insert would be nicer for warmth and ambiance.
EDIT: and you still need power for a pellet stove to work.
 
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The Harman is pricey. Read up on the reviews of the Harman. It is a heat machine, but can be a little tricky to run. First though measure your fireplace H, W, D top and bottom and see if it will fit. Other good 3 cu ft inserts are the Summit by Pacific Energy, Regency 3100i, Buck 94 or 91, Osburn 2400 etc..

What are the fireplace dimensions?
 
If you want to explore boiler options and costs we have a boiler room forum here with some knowledgeable persons that can help you. I think for sure this will exceed a $3500 budget but it may be a more satisfying solution. If you choose to go pellet be sure to order a good quantity of good quality pellets early. There can be shortages by fall once the weather starts chilling out.

How are the wood furnaces vented?
The double flue chimney is NOT located near the boiler or air handler. :(
Harmans are far from the easiest stoves to use they can be very tempermantal

What brand do you like? I don't think I'd want a catalytic model. I've looked online at pacific energy, regency, lenox & others. I need a big one.
 
I recommend Jotul, either fireplace insert or stove jutting out onto hearth. We mostly heat our home in central nj with an insert. Not winter like in New England but plenty cold for me. With stove or insert, get more capacity than you think you need. Find a dealer/installer you trust if you aren't doing it yourself.

Ceiling fan or two properly mounted on the cathedral ceiling will likely help with moving the heat back down to the living area. Get good quality fans that will hold up for a few years.

We burn about 3-4 cord per year and during hard winter months we're going 24/7. Family room that used to be chilly is now the go to place for tv, conversation, etc. We are very happy burning wood in our insert but there is work and dirt involved no matter how you slice it. Wouldn't have it any other way.

Good luck and don't scrimp on stove or fan quality for best results. Cry once when you get everything purchased and installed and then enjoy your life. Nothing worse than half measures and then regrets. Do it once the right way then move on to the next item on the list.

Good luck.
 
What brand do you like? I don't think I'd want a catalytic model. I've looked online at pacific energy, regency, lenox & others. I need a big one.
Well i sell regency so i like them but there are many other good ones out there. There is no reason to shy away from cat stoves either but they will typically cost more
 
Wood is a lot of work. You have to really enjoy it. You will burn a lot of it. You need room to store it. I would imagine that you would go through 5 cords a year, that means you need to have room for 15 cords. Sure you can buy it but it takes time to season I doubt that you can buy seasoned wood, it takes 2-3 years for hardwood to season that's whu I said you need room for 15 cords. If you decide to go with a wood stove I would recommend freestanding stove. Inserts do need a blower to give out heat especially flushed inserts. For your size house in ma I think you have to get at least 3cf fire box and that may not have enough of a fire power. Anything bigger than 3cf mostlikely will require 8" flue. Whatever you are going to end up doing do your homework first. It's better to pay for it once and enjoy it.
 
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