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Pellet stove is the last thing that I would be looking at!

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by RedRanger, May 2, 2008.

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  1. RedRanger

    RedRanger New Member

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    Loca papers today. Farmers can`t buy sawdust. Landscape suppliers can`t supply barkmulch.


    And worst of all, some farmers buying wood pellets as bedding for their animals because they cant buy sawdust. Yep, and they are trying to water the pellets down,so as to soften them up ...

    This is here in the pacific north west, but still, ya have to wonder what this is gonna do for the price of pellets.??

    There is more, pulp mills curtailing shifts cause they cant obtain enough fibre?

    I dunno, maybe think a little more about wood? Someone is always cutting down trees for a reason, disease,rott, or whatever. The signs are already out there, lots of competition for fibre,me thinks, the big boys--aka, the pulp mills will win in this case.

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  2. johnnywarm

    johnnywarm Minister of Fire

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    What if you run out of your free wood? if oil goes for 5 Bucks a gallon do you think your wood would still be free?
  3. JustWood

    JustWood Minister of Fire

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    ?????????? Just bought a barrel of motor oil a month ago at $461. That equates to $8.38/gal.
    If you mean diesel fuel, it's $ 4.60/gal right now here. Pretty close to $5 and still lots of wood growing in the woods.
  4. billb3

    billb3 Minister of Fire

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    Unless there's some law in the PNW that a tree can't be used to make a pellet, then it's just the usual sources that have dried up.

    Business models are flexible.
    As long as there are buyers and the mills can turn a profit ...
  5. Shooter

    Shooter New Member

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    I'm not in the least bit worried.
  6. Xena

    Xena Minister of Fire

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    What he ^^^^ said.
  7. sylvestermcmonkey

    sylvestermcmonkey Member

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    Pellets don't have to be made of wood.
  8. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    To supply the current market and stoves, they certainly do have to be.....

    Some units can burn corn, but relatively few.....and see corn prices!

    I think shortages are somewhat regional in nature, and stuff can be shipped - although it is not as "green". As a for instance, we had a big supply of BC pellets here in the east, shipped in by rail car!

    There is now enough pellet infrastructure here (new england) to assure a decent supply. Keep in mind that the pellet makers do not need waste - if need be they will take trees direct from culling the forests and make them into pellets. That can be done economically compared to heating oil.

    So, I have to disagree with Sonny...in New England, at least, I would feel better about pellet supply (although cost is always unknown) than EVER before.
  9. JustWood

    JustWood Minister of Fire

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    IMO I believe there will be swings in pellet pricing for a few years due to compition for raw product . If the lumber industry continues its decline pellt mills will go to chipping operations to acquire raw product. Production cost across the board are increasing, equipment costs on the rise and labor . Biomass and cellulosic ethanol have yet to come into play in the quest for raw material. As long as energy prices are up pellets and other allternatives WILL follow. If you use wood for heat read Erics signature. YOU not the oil or pellet cos control what it costs to heat your home.
  10. johnnywarm

    johnnywarm Minister of Fire

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    What if you run out of your free wood? if oil goes for 5 Bucks a gallon do you think your wood would still be free?[/quote]

    ?????????? Just bought a barrel of motor oil a month ago at $461. That equates to $8.38/gal.
    If you mean diesel fuel, it's $ 4.60/gal right now here. Pretty close to $5 and still lots of wood growing in the woods.[/quote]



    Are they your woods?????
  11. MainePellethead

    MainePellethead Minister of Fire

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    what those two said.... lol

    I aint the least bit worried either....
  12. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    It isn't the lack of wood that's closing mills, it's the lack of demand for the finished lumber. Just to be certain here, there are plenty of trees.

    Oh and I don't think sonny said anything about "free" firewood. Even free wood costs money to acquire and all energy costs are subject to some price increase, the difference with pellets is that they appear to be much much more limited in supply and the means to produce them is limited to those who own factories.

    Much of my firewood supply is also a waste product of the timber industry so if logging stops due to lack of demand for lumber then I too will see my prices go up at least a little bit until some out of work builder takes his saw into the woods to make me some firewood. The ability for the average Joe to "make" firewood is a worthy consideration.
  13. JustWood

    JustWood Minister of Fire

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    ?????????? Just bought a barrel of motor oil a month ago at $461. That equates to $8.38/gal.
    If you mean diesel fuel, it's $ 4.60/gal right now here. Pretty close to $5 and still lots of wood growing in the woods.[/quote]



    Are they your woods?????[/quote]


    Logging slash is everywhere you look here. Free for the taking or very close to it with just a knock on the door of the landowner. Most are glad to have their woods cleaned up.
  14. ugenetoo

    ugenetoo New Member

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    you have to buy appliances that are able to burn ANYTHING thats locally available.
    grass pellets are an up and coming source of fuel, particularly if fiber for wood pellets begins to be priced out of the market. there are millions of acres of grassland that isnt harvested each year that hold at least some potential to provide fiber for grass pellets. there are a pretty good number of appliances available that will burn these pellets. the customer has to chose whether they want to be locked into just wood pellets or be able to burn anything depending on price. grass grows just about everywhere, so its locally available. but then you can always burn wood....
  15. fuelstart

    fuelstart New Member

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    Are there pellet stoves out there that specify they'll burn grass pellets or will any multi fuel pellet stove burn new types of pellets?
  16. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    It would be hard for ANY stove to claim to burn fuels which do not exist. If there is no fuel, or standard, then how could they know whether it will burn them or not?
  17. mkmh

    mkmh New Member

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    This has been kicked around a few times out here. Grass Pellets aren't quite there yet, so they aren't really making the stoves to burn them. However, there are a few stoves on the market that seem to be fairly fuel-flexible. Bixby being one of them.

    http://www.grassbioenergy.org/res/pellet_stove_demo.asp

    I believe pellet stoves are here to stay. The prices will likely trend up along with oil, but for the foreseeable future this should be a relatively economical alternative to oil or propane heat (depending on your area of course)
  18. Richardin52

    Richardin52 Member

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    Like it or not supply and demand will dictate price of all types of fuels, Pellets included. If biomass plant or paper mills want wood more than pellet mills do they will pay more for it, same with corn, same with grass, food, shelter etc.etc.etc. The paper mills around here aren't doing so good because of cheap overseas paper.

    The great thing about pellet fuels are
    # 1 They can be made out of many things
    # 2 They can be set up to be automatic feeding
    # 3 They are a clean way for people to heat thier homes.
    # 4 They are good for the environment compared to oil, coal, or smoky outside wood boilers and standard stoves.
    # 5 Most pellets are produced in the US so we are not sending our money out of the country. The longer our money circulates in our economy the more people benifit from it.

    I could go on but I think you get the idea. Hey I know some people who don't give to shakes about anything or anyone but themselves. They will never be convenced so why bother trying. Are you one of them?
  19. Redox

    Redox Minister of Fire

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    The price of grass is shooting up, too! I just paid $250 an O for oooops wrong forum :coolsmile:

    I hear gas is getting pretty expensive too!

    Chris
  20. MoeB

    MoeB New Member

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    I just got the best two quotes today from two different companies -- one local and one a pellet supply/delivery company -- on early buy pellets I've gotten in four years. What's a person to make of that? It sure makes me happy.

    Moe
  21. Richardin52

    Richardin52 Member

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    Moe
    Whats the quotes you got?

    Rich
  22. ugenetoo

    ugenetoo New Member

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    just about any stove with an automated clinker removal system will burn grass pellets. i think that a good rule of thumb is that if the appliance states that it is able to burn corn and
    grains with a minimum of maintenance, it will burn grass pellets. a lot of the info that is out there regarding grass pellets is two to three years old and the technology to burn them has advanced tremendously in the last three years. the key to making grass pellets a cost effective fuel is to have a mobile pelletizing system come to your area, thereby eliminating transportation costs. we all see grasslands in our areas that is left to rot every year for one reason or another. that is where a lot of this biomass material could come from. i like to think of this acerage as giant solar collectors sitting there waiting for the energy stored in the biomass to be harvested.
  23. MoeB

    MoeB New Member

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    $211/ton delivered and $219/ton delivered. Last year at this time I paid more than that.

    Moe
  24. mkmh

    mkmh New Member

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    That is a great price. 2008/2009 will be my 4th season burning pellets and I also got my best delivered price ever this year.
    233 per ton. Prior to this year my best delivered price was 235 per ton.
    Seems like there are always deals to be had if you plan well and do some price shopping.
    It is a wonderful thing that pellet prices have stayed relatively stable over the last 4 years.
  25. MoeB

    MoeB New Member

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    mkmh, I noticed you have a few Rinnais. Do you like them? I'm considering switching to natural gas rather than replace an old oil boiler and a very old oil tank in a five-room office, and someone suggested the 1004 Rinnai and a Rinnai tankless water heater. Any thoughts?

    Moe
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