Pellet Stove Techs...PLEASE HELP. At the end of my rope with this thing.

[EarthStove]

Please see these threads for a history of what I have been dealing with...

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/59431/

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/53101/

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/59274/


After tearing this stove apart, cleaning it inside and out completely. Replacing and adding exhaust pipe and changing to a different brand of pellets the ash started to back up again on the right side of my burn pot. On medium after about 10 to 12 hours the pellets began to back up towards the auger area and then smoldering began.

Last year I tried to reduce the amount of pellets being fed with a stopper in the feed cup....made no difference.


I tested my combustion fan this summer and it appears to work perfectly blowing lots of air...When the pellets feed it increases in velocity like it's supposed too. I took it out of the stove and completely cleaned every speck of dirt off it.

This stove is clean...Trust me there was no place that any ash could have hidden with the cleaning I did, besides there really is no place for ash to hide on this unit anyway.

This year we are using Hamers Hot Ones over the Lignetics that were terrible last year (been burning them for years but they really took a turn for the worse last year.) The Hamers are producing much less ash and when it does start to build up it much easier to crumble then the lignetics were (that ash was very strong and harder to smash with fingers)


Attached are some pictures of the burn pot which has cracked and distorted a bit...This is really the last thing that I can think of that might be causing this but I just have a hard time believing that this could be the root cause of all of this.

In the pictures you can see how the ash built up on the right hand side of the burn pot. This was about 12 hours of burning on Medium. Late last night I knocked that down before I continued burning it but it built back up again as you can see.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Have you checked the air path from the intake to the burn pot?

Anything in that will cause your stove to act like it was full of ash as well.

Also have you added any air suckers in your house between the last time the stove ran correctly and when you first had burn problems?

 

[EarthStove]

The airway is clear. Its a straight shot from blower to burn pot. Nothing with house has changed.

 

[imacman]

You said this in one of those previous posts:

"It appears the problem is gone. Have not had a chance to burn on high yet, just not cold enough but so far on med and low no crazy sticky ash build up and lazy flames. About 4 bags through so far this fall. I sure hope it runs just as well on high."

So, what happened?

Did you buy & install the higher CFM fan that Dave Gault suggested?

Since the firepot is cracked, don't you think a new one is in order to eliminate combustion air leaking through the cracks instead of through the pellets?

Considering that this is an older stove, and parts seem to be hard to come by, IMO I would be getting these replacements ASAP before they aren't made any more, or maybe just get a new stove.

 

[EarthStove]

Didnt replace the fan after testing this one it blows very hard. Regarding burn pot....thats why i am asking...the burn pot is crazy expensive so I want to make sure cracks could be a cause...

Does ash becoming clumpy like that indicate combustion issues?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Anything that interferes with the air flow is a combustion issue.

The clumping can be the result of not enough air flow to eject the ash from the burn pot and then the various minerals in the ash (because of burn pot temperatures and time) can fuse causing the ash clumping you are seeing.

 

[buildingmaint]

I get ash clumping like that all the time in my burn pot , I've been told it is from heating and reheating the ash over and over. I can fill up the pot with it in a matter of days if I don't scrape the urn pot every day. One time I got some black sticky goo all over the inside of my stove , found out it was from not having the burn pot seated properly.

 

[summit]

the way some of the ash is retaining the shape of the pellet, I would point towards pellet quality as the 1st culprit... next would be airflow, it needs more.

 

[EarthStove]

The stuff that looks like pellets was the stuff smoldering after the ash built up.

 

[imacman]

... next would be airflow, it needs more.

Since the OP is burning what I consider a very good pellet (Hamer's), I agree with the above statement....more air. Are you sure the blower is running at the proper speed? If so, how are you sure? Are you the original owner of the stove, or did you buy it used?

As for the "crazy expensive" burn pot, yes, it does seem very expensive, but if you contact Dave Gault at Wood heat Stoves, he will give you a discount for being a Hearth.com member.

One other possible way to make sure the burn pot is the culprit is to get some furnace cement, and seal-up the cracks. It should be pretty evident if the fire/ash problem gets better, and then you could make the buy/not buy decision for the new one.

If you finally decide to give up with this stove, and plan on buying a new one, make it pretty quick....the Tax Credit for pellet stoves ends on Dec. 31

 

[summit]

... next would be airflow, it needs more.

Since the OP is burning what I consider a very good pellet (Hamer's), I agree with the above statement....more air. Are you sure the blower is running at the proper speed? If so, how are you sure? Are you the original owner of the stove, or did you buy it used?

As for the "crazy expensive" burn pot, yes, it does seem very expensive, but if you contact Dave Gault at Wood heat Stoves, he will give you a discount for being a Hearth.com member.

One other possible way to make sure the burn pot is the culprit is to get some furnace cement, and seal-up the cracks. It should be pretty evident if the fire/ash problem gets better, and then you could make the buy/not buy decision for the new one.

If you finally decide to give up with this stove, and plan on buying a new one, make it pretty quick....the Tax Credit for pellet stoves ends on Dec. 31

sorry, just realized which post I was replying to, my previous statements made no sence, as I was talking about a p38 instead of this one... clicked wrong post,

 

[EarthStove]

... next would be airflow, it needs more.

Since the OP is burning what I consider a very good pellet (Hamer's), I agree with the above statement....more air. Are you sure the blower is running at the proper speed? If so, how are you sure? Are you the original owner of the stove, or did you buy it used?

As for the "crazy expensive" burn pot, yes, it does seem very expensive, but if you contact Dave Gault at Wood heat Stoves, he will give you a discount for being a Hearth.com member.

One other possible way to make sure the burn pot is the culprit is to get some furnace cement, and seal-up the cracks. It should be pretty evident if the fire/ash problem gets better, and then you could make the buy/not buy decision for the new one.

If you finally decide to give up with this stove, and plan on buying a new one, make it pretty quick....the Tax Credit for pellet stoves ends on Dec. 31

I am not certain on the blower speed. But it seems like a LOT of air. Even when in place before burns I have turned it on and the air coming out of those holes is pretty strong.

This brings me to my next question, do you think that perhaps it could be a control board issue? Maybe it's not sending out the correct voltages.

The earth stove is a simple stove with regards to just about everything including the control board. We have Off, Combustion blower only, and pellet feed on one switch, the next one is Feed rate, which is high, medium and low. The last switch is the draft fan switch with is OFF, low and high. I have always kept this switch on high. We usually run the feed rate switch on high til the room blower kicks on and then we turn it down to medium. On really cold nights it goes up to high when we go to bed.

The room blower is a dial which has automatic and then manual speeds. Manual speeds really only operate when the stove is on low feed setting because it doesn't always kick on on automatic.

The combustion fan is a straight shot about 2ft behind the burn pot and the air blows into via a chamber that is about 3X3 square. Ash is never anywhere in this chamber.

As for the burn pot and cement. tomorrow I was going to weld the cracks. I am not sure if the burn pot is stainless or not but I will just try welding to it with the standard wire.

I have found replacement blowers for this stove for around 90 bucks so this might be a choice too if you guys REALLY believe it's a combustion air issue.

I can probably check to make sure the control panel is feeding the right voltage to the combustion fan. I think that Dave sent me the service manual and it may have what output voltages should look like.


Last thing, any chance this could be the door gasket? :-D

 

[EarthStove]

BTW, this is the stove two nights ago right after I started the stove. This is on high.

 

[smalltown]

Guys I am not familiar with this stove at all, but isn't that a big fire? Could it be feeding to many pellets?

 

[EarthStove]

Its a natural fire burn pot. The flames have always looked like a real fireplace. I reduced the amount of pellets being fed with a home made cup reducer and it made no difference last winter. Same problem.

 

[EarthStove]

According to the service manual, the draft fan should do the following:

Output during pellet feeds - 115v
Output on High - 70v to 75v
Output on low - 60v to 65v

I should also mention again that there is a damper over the combustion blower. It's supposed to be at 50% open. I have tried opening it all the way and closing it most of the way and many positions in between. Even though with it all the way open allowing the maximum amount of air into the chamber it really did nothing at all to fix the problem.

Forgot to mention above we are the first owner of the stove. Bought it new 13 years ago.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

"The combustion fan is a straight shot about 2ft behind the burn pot and the air blows into via a chamber that is about 3X3 square. Ash is never anywhere in this chamber."

Where does the air enter the stove? Is this area clear?

 

[EarthStove]

Enters from the bottom of the rear of the stove. 2 1/4" opening and it's clear.

 

[imacman]

Well, since you're the original owner of the stove, I guess my next question would be, how long ago did you notice the problem you're having begin? What did (or didn't) happen right before that?

If nothing, then as long as your blower voltages check out, I'd go back to what I suggested in an earlier post....seal up the cracks in the burn pot with furnace cement, and try the stove. If nothing changes, then I'm out of ideas.

One person who might have some ideas (who may not have seen this thread) is forum member/mod "hearthtools". He has worked on may different types of stoves, and might be able to help. Try sending him a PM.

 

[EarthStove]

Think that stove "cement" is a better choice over welding those cracks closed? Where the heck do you find that stuff anyway?

The problem really started after our first ton of pellets last year. The second ton started with the problem. continuously. Over the years this issue has popped up but it seemed to only occur with really crappy pellets when the stove was on full. But after that first ton last year the problem became continuous regardless of the pellet brand and pellet rate.

Oddly enough you can see by the picture with the flame...The stove runs fantastic and the flame is very active until the ash builds up and then the pellets begin to smolder.

 

[imacman]

Think that stove "cement" is a better choice over welding those cracks closed? Where the heck do you find that stuff anyway?.........

Just thought it would be a cheap way to narrow down the problem....if it worked, then grind the cement back off and have it tig-welded.

You should be able to buy the cement at HD or Lowes, or for sure at a plumbing/heating supply.

Good luck...keep us up-to-date on how you make out.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Depending upon where you are it is sometimes known as retort cement, follow the instruction on the container.

I've purchased it True Value and Aubuchon, it should also be available from most heating/plumbing supply shops.

 

[EarthStove]

Interesting...

Just digging around I found this:

http://woodheatstoves.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1717

It's an upgraded control board. It offers two additional heat settings and pretty much all automatic operation. With our control board pretty much everything we do is manual. Setting the draft fan speed (although we always keep it on high anyway), the startup procedure is always timed by us with fuel amount etc.

Oddly enough on this control board the draft fan setting for medium is at 90v on our board it's 70v to 75v It's a shame this is soooo expensive...Looks like it would be a nice replacement.

On the stove cement, I think I have seen that before now at home depot made by a company called rutland. It might be worth a shot instead of breaking out the MIG.

 

[EarthStove]

Here are a couple more shots of the burn pot.

You can see how the metal has become distorted. I heated those areas up today and banged them back and almost got the metal back to the way it was before - then I hit the holes/cracks with the welder. Closed everything up and have a fire burning now. I will report back with an update.

Here is a shot from the back of the burn pot. You can see were the air holes are and how they cracked open a bit.

 

[EarthStove]

Quick update. Been burning all day on Medium feed rate annd high combustion fan setting. About 9 hours so far.

Some interesting notes:

1) So far it has been working very well.
2) the way this burn pot works, in the middle of it is unburned pellets that were just fed, to the outside of that are black burning pellets that give off most of the flames. On the outside of that the pellets are bright orange and very hot..This is where the pellets are burning into ash. On the outside of that is the ash and it is then pushed off the edge and into the ash pan below.

My wife and kids probably think I am crazy but I have been watching the fire closely off and on every couple of hours today. It hit 75f outside and I have all the windows open and a fire burning (NUTS!) Through the day the area inside the ash area of the fire pot where the pellets are bright orange and black has grown towards the outside areas making the area that has ash less and less in size.

I am going to run for about another hour or two before I shut things down. Supposed to be colder this weekend so that will be another real test if things look good over the next two hours.

I shot some video - I may upload later.